#4 Re: EXALTED! Third edition. Kickstarter.
Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:09 am
by Lys
Hotfoot wrote:Are they going to fix the mechanics and step back from the porn covers? Because otherwise they had a decently cool setting.
Exalted is a pulp fantasy setting, the smutty outfits and rock-hard abs aren't going anywhere, it's a genre convention. Looking at
Shards of the Exalted Dream, the last 2e publications, there are 20 illustrations, within which are one naked woman, two women with tank tops, and
seven shirtless men. Along with a number of actually clothed people, including a woman in an armoured space suit, and another wielding a chainsword. I'm willing to give Exalted a pass on the half-clothed women on account of the equal or greater amount of half-clothed men. The beefcake balances out the cheesecake, and there are badass clothed and armoured people of both genders so it's all good far as I'm concerned!
But oh hey! They have sketches of the new Solar circle! Check it out:
Dawn Caste: Volfer
Zenith Caste: Perfect Soul
Twilight Caste: Shen
Night Caste: Novia Claro
Eclipse Caste: Prince Diamond
Rock hard abs yes, smutty outfits no. For reference, the prior circle scored yes and yes.
Also: "Prince Diamond is biologically female, and will run you through if you fail to address him as 'sir' after being corrected on the matter once." -Holden (Ex3 co-developer)
Can't say I agree with Diamond's lifestyle choices. I find "Sir" a most improper form of address for one such as Diamond. The correct term for a Prince is "Your Highness". ^_^
As for mechanics, well nobody writing for Exalted right now is responsible for the clusterfuck that 2e edition was. Stephen Lea Sheppard started writing for the game in 2007, Holden Shearer in 2009, and the rest of the crew in 2010-11. The only exception is Grabowski, the original Exalted developer and the one who invented the setting, but he hasn't worked on it since the twilit days of 1st Ed. John Morke, the new developer, was able to inspire him to come back aboard, it's a good sign I think!
They're keeping the specifics of the new mechanics close to the chest because the parts of the fanbase have grown bitterly toxic and cannot be trusted with actual rules previews. They have, however, finally gotten around to
describing the design philosophy in broad terms. Any similarities to Dissidia are apparently completely intentional. It sounds pretty cool, though to be honest I'm more interested in the social influence system.
#5 Re: EXALTED! Third edition. Kickstarter.
Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:18 pm
by Hotfoot
I dunno, the beefcake/cheesecake ratio sort of went to pot with this cover:
When you can tell me there's a cover with a dude in a banana hammock and a low angle crotch shot, I guess we can call it even, but yeah.
That said, the sketches do look good, though I'm hesitant on the mechanical end. I mean, Exalted wasn't nearly as bad as their nearest competitor, Anima, but it was pretty bad. I can understand fans being "toxic", but they've got five times their goal right now. Even if they lost half of that, they would still have gobs of money. Still, the idea of having the combat be more cinematic and doing more with the "you're weakening his character shields" could well be very interesting, though as a nit-pick, I'd rather they took more liberally from, say, Kung-Fu movies than Star Wars, in this case.
(As an aside, hey, White Wolf forums, how do I have 3 buddy requests WHEN I'M NOT EVEN LOGGED IN? Bad puppy!).
#6 Re: EXALTED! Third edition. Kickstarter.
Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:13 pm
by Lys
Good God man, that's the cover of
Savant and Sorcerer, published July 2004,
nine years ago. An entire edition and three election cycles came and went in that timespan, but poor Exalted's never going to live it down, is it?
There's a funny story behind that cover, actually. The artist is Korean, and at the time his English was mediocre to say the least, and nobody at White Wolf spoke Korean. So there was little coordination and a lot of miscomunication, so by the time the folks at WW first laid eyes on the art they had to get the book to print, and there was not time to revise or fix anything. It's not what they wanted in their art, check out the following covers from the prior couple of years:
Aspectbook Fire,
Aspectbook Earth,
Castebook Night,
Castebook Twilight. Plus, of course, the
1st Edition Corebook cover, which features a black woman as a deliberate attempt to break the monotonous cavalcade of white male heroes in RPGs up to that time.
Art quality does vary a lot depending on artist and such. I was not around for 1e and haven't read any of its books, so can't comment beyond what I've been told and shown. I can say that there are a fair number of half-naked people in 2e, but as mentioned above it's a genre convention, and the male-to-female shirtlessness ratio is more or less balanced. It's also also all safely inside the books rather than on the covers. Much of the partial nudity is Kyo's, my favourite Exalted artist, who probably would have drawn full frontal if they'd let her. Then Exalted would have been known for the cocks instead of the tits! ^_^;
I'm hesitant on the mechanical end. I mean, Exalted wasn't nearly as bad as their nearest competitor, Anima, but it was pretty bad.
You and everyone else. They pretty much have to knock it out of the ballpark with that core ruleset, else this grand new endeavour will collapse into flames and bitter tears. Still, the reason Exalted is getting a Third Edition because the current writers would rather gnaw their own limbs off than keep trying to clean up somebody else's horrible mess. They're not the ones responsible for the prior iterations of the game's system being clunky and broken, that ship had already been driven unto the rocks when they came aboard. Even if this new edition is full of suck and fail, it will be on its own merits, not those of the prior ones.
Yet, it is difficult for me to imagine how the present writers could manage to not come up with something better. They're intimately familiar with with all the failures of Exalted's mechanics thus far, having both played games with them and spent years attempting to fix them; and they don't seem to lack for talent.
#9 Re: EXALTED! Third edition. Kickstarter.
Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:41 pm
by Hotfoot
Lys wrote:Good God man, that's the cover of Savant and Sorcerer, published July 2004, nine years ago. An entire edition and three election cycles came and went in that timespan, but poor Exalted's never going to live it down, is it?
That is a damn hard image to live down. I mean, that one's worthy of the Hawkeye Initiative.
Then Exalted would have been known for the cocks instead of the tits! ^_^;
To be fair, it's rather past due time for that to happen to the RPG market. There's nothing wrong with a bit of pandering, so long as there's some balance in it. If you're going to be working the sexy time angle, fuck it, appeal to that larger audience.
Yet, it is difficult for me to imagine how the present writers could manage to not come up with something better. They're intimately familiar with with all the failures of Exalted's mechanics thus far, having both played games with them and spent years attempting to fix them; and they don't seem to lack for talent.
As bad as Exalted was, and it was pretty bad, let's be blunt, note how I said it wasn't the worst thing out there in the same genre? The way down isn't just marked, it's paved. That said, I do hope they come up with nicer mechanics. The stock White Wolf mechanics weren't meant to stretch that far, and it showed. How should they do it? No idea, but let's hope they find something that works. As I said, I liked the Exalted setting, so I hope this is better than what we got before.
#10 Re: EXALTED! Third edition. Kickstarter.
Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:00 pm
by Lys
Cynical Cat wrote:It's not the nakedness that's the problem really, it's the kind of nakedness. Vampire had nudity and partial nudity and you don't see me complaining because the art style and subject matter worked. With Exalted if the go for Ancient Greek style demigod/epic hero art that will be great but producing stuff that looks like fan service for an anime involving teenage girls is a disaster.
Yeah, and what i'm trying to get across is that yes Exalted has partial or total nudity, but no it's not all like that abomination that Hotfoot posted with painted on clothes and a crotch angle. You remember the artist I mentioned was my favourite? Here are some of my favourite bits of her art (Warning, thongs and bare chests follow):
http://kiyo.deviantart.com/art/Demons-o ... e-97479571
http://kiyo.deviantart.com/art/softer-s ... n-48553165
http://kiyo.deviantart.com/art/The-Mad- ... s-97479874
This last one is actually kind of bad, but that codpiece is too hilarious to not share:
http://kiyo.deviantart.com/art/tepet-shikai-34286985
Hotfoot wrote:Then Exalted would have been known for the cocks instead of the tits! ^_^;
To be fair, it's rather past due time for that to happen to the RPG market. There's nothing wrong with a bit of pandering, so long as there's some balance in it. If you're going to be working the sexy time angle, fuck it, appeal to that larger audience.
Damn right, like I said, it's probably the case that Kiyo doesn't full frontal male nudity because they don't let her, not because she doesn't want to! Take at look at this (possibly NSFW)
drawing of the wedding between the Green Lady and the Walker in the Darkness. She's mostly naked, he's
completely naked. It's just too bad there's random things covering up some of the fun stuff.
As bad as Exalted was, and it was pretty bad, let's be blunt, note how I said it wasn't the worst thing out there in the same genre? The way down isn't just marked, it's paved. That said, I do hope they come up with nicer mechanics. The stock White Wolf mechanics weren't meant to stretch that far, and it showed. How should they do it? No idea, but let's hope they find something that works. As I said, I liked the Exalted setting, so I hope this is better than what we got before.
I know it can get worse, though not first hand because if a system gets too onerous I just give up and go do something more interesting. Exalted 2e was kind of on the line, where if it was any more cumbersome, slow, and - worst of all -
boring, I would never have given the setting the time of day.
There's fair chances of me getting in on the beta testing! So I'll may know Ex3 is good or not before the rest of you, in which case I'll be sure to inform you all of my impressions within the bounds of the inevitable NDA. But this will almost certainly happen after the kickstarter ends, so if anyone thinking about pitching in will have to do it on faith. Although! The present writers have in fact written and released a whole RPG from scratch. It's a 25k word ode to Street Fighter called Burn Legend. Haven't played it, but I hear it's fun, functional, and easy to learn. They included it in Shards of the Exalted Dream. So, there's that.
#12 Re: EXALTED! Third edition. Kickstarter.
Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:14 pm
by Lys
Do keep in mind I'm not in the play-testing, because thus far there is no play-testing besides what the writers do internally, and there likely won't be for another month or two. All I can tell you is I was asked to be in it, so if the offer still stands whenever they get around to doing it, I'll be sure to share what I can.
Kiyo's art is neat, but sadly she hasn't done anything for Exalted in a while, so i don't think she's doing anything for 3e, which is unfortunate. On the plus side, it seems Melissa Uran is on board for it, which is awesome because her art is really good too! Check out the
totally sweet cover she drew for Masters of Jade (the second to last 2e book).
#19 Re: EXALTED! Third edition. Kickstarter.
Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:59 am
by Lys
Thanks guys! ^_^
As some of you may know, Exalted 1e had short stories at the start of each chapter. In Exalted 2e these were changed to comics. For Exalted 3e they're switching back to stories. They've released two samples to Kickstarter backers, who have been in turn rather generous in sharing such material with the rest of the fans. The first one wasn't much to my liking, but the second proves to me that one good chapter fiction is worth a book's worth of chapter comics:
The farming village was nestled at the end of a fertile valley, water-fed and cradled by two mighty mountains. It had been 768 years since the Scarlet Empress threw back the Wyld hosts, and now they had returned, marching their unreal armies through the mountains and scouring the valleys one by one. The Realm had withdrawn from the region the year before, first recalling its soldiers, and then the Immaculate missionaries; when the tax-man failed to appear to demand the dragon’s share of their harvest, the farmers knew for certain they had been abandoned. The village lay open and defenseless, ripe for the taking.
Janest paused for a moment at the top of the great high hill above the town, peering back down the way she’d come. The sun had set an hour ago, and she could see a vast and sprawling constellation of unearthly lights spread across the valley, rivaling the stars above in number and majesty—the camps of the Fair Folk. They would be upon the village with the dawn.
The field-maiden set her back on the sight, regarded the shrine ahead of her. It was a simple thing, built of deeply-polished wood, framed beneath a red-painted torii. One of the High Reavers had come and drawn her away from her preparations that afternoon, where she drilled with her field-sisters. Like the rest of the field-maidens, Janest had been taken as an infant in a raid on a settlement in a neighboring valley, and raised by the High Reavers—priests, augurs, and judges who watched the weather, proclaimed the first day of planting and the first day of reap, and spoke the will of the harvest god. She had grown up in the town, tilling the soil and working the fields, and training also to defend them. They were simple farm-folk, and so trained with the weapons of their trade: threshing-flails, pitchforks, winnowing-fans…Janest herself favored the scythe.
Ten Sheaves demanded her presence, she had been told.
“I can’t go,” Janest had said, glancing back to her sisters, “I have to make ready to defend the town.”
“The god says that your presence is necessary if we are to be saved,” the High Reaver had replied. And so the field-maiden had made the long climb up to the shrine.
Janest stepped forward, placing a hand upon the ancient wood of the torii. It tingled beneath her fingertips. The harvest god had lived up on the hill for as long as anyone could remember, and they had always honored him according to the calendar demanded by the Immaculates—and given him extra worship as well in the lean years, hiding their prayers and libations from traveling monks. But Janest had never seen the god with her own eyes, and couldn’t think of why he might want to see a simple field-maiden on the eve of the town’s annihilation.
She stepped through the torii with the sensation of crossing some subtle boundary, like passing through a shaft of sunlight or a stream of water. Golden wheat surrounded her now, stretching on and on in rambling rows. The sky overhead was a pure and perfect black, scattered with bright, unfamiliar stars that gleamed like winter ice. She looked back, and saw no torii, no hill: the rows wound away in every direction.
A voice spoke from her right, deep, crackling like breaking stalks: “Janest. Walk with me.”
Janest glanced toward the voice by reflex and caught a glimpse of a silhouette in another row, a figure with hair like straw and hemp-woven sleeves—she quickly pulled her gaze away. The High Reaver had instructed her to keep her eyes averted unless the god bid her otherwise, and so she did. Ten Sheaves began to walk, and Janest fell into step alongside—the god in his row, the field-maiden in hers.
The rich smell of growing things surrounded them as they walked; from time to time a cold wind would blow through the rows, a reaping-wind, and Janest would shiver. Presently, Ten Sheaves began to speak: He spoke of a long life overlooking the fertile valley and the farms beneath, watching the Ages unfold in extravagance and poverty, describing times and people Janest could scarcely imagine; he spoke of the Games of Divinity and how the sky of Heaven turned by their listings, and though Janest knew not of these games, she could hear the wonder and longing in the god’s voice; he spoke of the Exigence, a divine fire, a miracle even to the gods, handed down from On High that the gods might raise champions and protectors; he spoke of what it meant to be a god and to believe in justice in an age of the unjust. “Long ago,” Ten Sheaves said, “there were great champions, men and women of profound might, who carried the fire through the pitch. But when they left they took the light of the world with them.”
Janest cleared her throat, spoke for the first time since she had arrived. “What happened to them, these champions?”
“They were struck down,” the god said, “butchered, bound away. The world was eroded in their absence—even the fires of the Exigence guttered. Now they have returned, they walk the world again, but they have come too late, too late for me. Look.” She felt more than saw a hand pointing to the horizon. Janest looked.
The field-maiden realized she could see something dreaming upon the limits of the horizon—a great gleaming edifice of lights. She had the impression of towers, and heart-breaking beauty. “That is the Celestial City of Yu-Shan, which men and gods alike know as Heaven,” the little god said. “I have never walked its streets, and now I never will; perhaps you might, one day. For now, we can stand here, and look upon its lights.”
Unschooled in how to properly address divinity, Janest hesitated, then asked: “God of the harvest, why have you called for me?”
Ten Sheaves gave back a question of his own: “Have you any relatives of blood in the valley?”
“No,” Janest said. She realized the god was farther away, had slipped back to a more distant row at some point, though he sounded as close as ever.
“Yet it is not yourself you fear for.”
Janest’s jaw worked. She wasn’t normally a woman of words, and seldom explained herself. “The people of the village… they’re still my family, it doesn’t take blood. I want to protect them.”
“A field-maiden’s duty?” the god asked.
It was, but… Janest shook her head. “The people and the land together are my kin; separate, they’re not themselves. They’re precious to me. Without them, I am lost.”
Ten Sheaves seemed satisfied. “Field-maiden Janest. I have prayed to the Most High, and he has approved my petition. You are to become Exalted—my champion, my Chosen—and the salvation of your people. If you live, perhaps the salvation of much more.”
Janest stared ahead, eyes wide and focused on the row ahead as she spoke into the wind the way a blind woman might. She felt blind. It was a new terror, the fear of not knowing the way. “Ten Sheaves—I’m—I’m not the best fighter among the field-maidens, Amalon with her threshing-flail—”
“You fight well enough. Strength of arm is common in this age,” Ten Sheaves said, “and not the strength I desire.” A pause. “I am a god, Janest, but I am small among the ranks of immortals. When I call upon the divine flame, its price will be my consumption.” The night-sounds of the spirit field faded away—the crickets, the sigh of the wind—and it became very quiet. “There’s no other way. Come the dawn, the Fair Folk will erase this place if not stopped. This is my final day either way.”
Janest got the sense that the god was looking again at the distant lights of Heaven—at the streets he would never walk and the towers he would never climb. “I’m sorry,” she said, and though she had only today met the god on the hill, she meant it.
“It’s a strange thing,” Ten Sheaves said, “to die. It’s a strange thing for immortality to end, and to go into the darkness.” Janest could no longer see the god when she looked into the rows, he was receding, receding. “I will not come again, but is the wheat truly gone when it spills its kernel upon the ground? This is a wicked age; as my final act, I would sow it with hope. Turn toward the lights of Heaven, Janest, and walk. The Unconquered Sun stands prominent in the Games of Divinity; let his fire guide you.”
The field-maiden lingered a moment, searching for any sign of Ten Sheaves, but the god was gone. She turned and advanced into the rows as he bid. There was darkness for a time, and she felt fear, but she could see the sun rising through the stalks. It was the sign of a god whose name she had never heard until now—but hadn’t she known him all along, toiling under his gaze and thanking him for the life that sprang from the fields? In the sense that the light was familiar, she felt neither blind nor alone. Then she remembered—the valley, the village. I must go back. They need me—and the fear of not knowing her course melted away like dew under sunlight. She pushed onward.
At last the rows parted and Janest stepped into a clearing where the stalks had been beaten flat. In its center stood a strange lady scarecrow, born up by a brace of beams and spreading her arms as if to bear up the sky on her back. Her hair was dark like Janest’s, and what she had taken for straw was actually skin. She looked past these features, partly out of fear, partly out of consumption. She reached out to it, and in turn its arms came together between them, bearing up an offering, a final gift. Ten Sheaves’s voice was in her head, impelling her to take it—and take hold of her destiny. She reached out and grasped the perfect obsidian hilt, and the lady of straw met her gaze, her hat falling away, and Janest saw that she was looking at herself.
Almost immediately she saw and felt it—the pulse of eternity, a spark leaping, lightning unfurling in jagged tongues between heaven and earth, connecting them. The essence of Ten Sheaves exploded from her like fire: amber-gold changing into a ghostfire of blue-white. For a moment, Ten Sheaves was in her senses, crackling through her cells, changing everything he touched. Blood rushed in her veins, and it was not just blood but the mountain streams that tumbled down into the valley and fed the fields. She flexed her fingers and they were full, ripe stalks of wheat nodding beneath a passing breeze, the crops she had tended all her life. She felt also the seeds sleeping in the earth, felt the pregnant promise of the soil beneath her feet, and the call of rains drawn up from the oceans—and that too faded away as the last of Ten Sheaves fled down into the recesses of her soul, sending up a bonfire to mark his passing. The amber-gold light was all around her now, spilling out from her. As she stood under the rising light of the Unconquered Sun, she sensed the kinship between the small god that had Exalted her and the source of the fire that had empowered her and ended him. She knew that to be even the least among gods was still a wondrous thing, now ended, now passed to her, now kindling anew.
She took the gift to hand, and the world faded into the purity of the dawn.
* * *
Shortly after midnight, the spring that flowed from the top of the harvest god’s hill dried up, first slowing to a trickle, and then ceasing altogether. The creak-and-thump of the waterwheel slowed and finally groaned to a halt, its uncharacteristic silence awakening those few in the village who had managed to sleep. The wind that spun the prayer wheels outside the High Reavers’ hall hesitated and then died; the wheels ticked to a stop. The village was silent and still for hours after these grim omens, waiting without hope for the coming dawn.
An hour before the sun came up, the doors of Ten Sheaves’s shrine opened, and a young woman stepped out, walking with purpose.
* * *
The armies of the Fair Folk came on with the rising of the sun. They sang as they marched, knowing that the day promised a banquet of pain and fear—such was the meat and drink of the hobgoblins and silverwights and lesser panjandrums that made up the majority of the horde. The nobles leading the expedition hoped for more refined sport—the souls of mothers, torn raw and agonized by the deaths of their babes, perhaps; or the vengeful flailing of young boys burning to avenge atrocities. Either would make for appropriate amusement.
They marched under war-banners woven of flame and dreams of glory, and set up a great strange riot of drums and flutes played by wizened, hideous musicians dredged from the Lands Beyond Creation, capable of creating beauty only in their music; all else they did was crude and cynical and base. As the army reached the edge of the fields before the town, the jeweled and beautiful noble that led the war-band raised one elegant hand, signaling a halt. Slavering, fanged skirmishers beat the ground around him with their bone clubs and barbed blades, eager for slaughter.
A lone girl stood at the edge of the glebe, body toned and hardened by a life in the fields. Her amber-gold eyes flashed in the light of the rising sun, and her chestnut hair waved in the rising breeze. She carried a great and terrible scythe, a god-weapon, its haft shot through with veins of green jade, its long and wicked blade gleaming with a ruddy inner light. Its grips displayed the unmistakable hollows of empty hearthstone sockets. The weapon was taller than a man, yet she hefted it as though it weighed nothing at all. The lords of chaos signaled the advance.
Strawmaiden Janest crossed the field to meet them.
#21 Re: EXALTED! Third edition. Kickstarter.
Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:15 am
by Lys
So, a couple days to go and Exalted 3e is the most funded RPG Kickstarter of all time. The signature character pictures got coloured, and some information was revealed about them, which i will briefly summarize.
Dawn Caste: Volfer
Volfer's sword has a conciousness, but it has been tainted and driven mad by the blood of a demon it once slew. He's a fearsome hand-to-hand combatant both armed and unarmed, and likely is also skilled in the use of ranged weapons, since it's a design goal to make multiple combat abilities be synergistic rather than redundant.
Zenith Caste: Perfect Soul
A priestess who, disgusted by the Gods, shattered a shrine to Sol Invictus. In that moment he felt a kinship to the priestess and Exalted her. She leads her people in a war against House Mnemon. Shape of gauntlets suggest she may be an archer.
Twilight Caste: Shen
Wuxia kung-fu wizard! He's a member of House Iselsi and the Realm's intelligence service, conveniently forgetting to quit after becoming Anathema. Fights using martial arts, and is a powerful sorcerer.
Night Caste: Novia Claro
Spy and assassin from Nexus in the employ the Council of Entities. A writer has chosen to make a novel about her, so presumably she has an interesting back story that hasn't been revealed. She seems to specialize in throwing sharp things at people.
Eclipse Caste: Prince Diamond
Delzhan Dereth (born female, socially male) who has gone on a "far ride", a quest taken to far away lands in search of a replacement for something that was lost, such as life, honour, pride, etc. It is done on behalf another, usually a family member, to absolve them of their sins by taking on the burden themselves. They are considered to be among the greatest heroes of the Delzhan. Melee fighter judging by the sword.
A very general
mechanics outline has been published. It contains much of the information in the forum thread linked earlier, as well as some extra tidbits. Note: Writers have clarified that "Solar XP" and free excellencies are available for all Exalts, not just Solars.
Finally, they also released some short previews for
Infernals,
Abyssals, and a new Exalt type called
Liminals. Holden Shearer had this to say about the Infernals preview after digesting the fan reaction:
Holden wrote:The Infernals have been one of the major challenges of EX3-- their prior implementation had serious issues, and needed to change. But it was also seriously cool, and many, many people loved it to death. So a constant question we had to ask ourselves was, "how much should we try to keep? What needs to go completely? What can we keep if we tweak it?" It was hard to estimate how much vision-shift people would stand before they couldn't see their beloved characters in these new Infernals any more. And so we re-imagined the Reclamation in a way that, we thought, dodged the worst of the problems it brought to the game in 2e, while still letting the concept itself remain.
Speaking for myself? I wasn't expecting the first, immediate reaction to be "No, it's not different enough. Drop it all the way. The coolest Reclamation is the one focused entirely on the Infernals themselves, draped in corrupted First Age glory, descending upon Creation to reclaim their stolen crowns, with the Yozis as shadows of faded glory backing their rise in order to spite their old enemies and the world that has largely forgotten them."
That's a hell of a compelling vision, and one we weren't sure people would want to embrace. But that seems to be what I'm hearing.