European Court upholds French full veil ban

[frigidmagi]

BBC

The European Court of Human Rights has upheld a ban by France on wearing the Muslim full-face veil - the niqab.

A case was brought by a 24-year-old French woman, who argued that the ban on wearing the veil in public violated her freedom of religion and expression.

French law says nobody can wear in a public space clothing intended to conceal the face. The penalty for doing so can be a 150-euro fine (£120; $205).

The 2010 law came in under former conservative President Nicolas Sarkozy.

A breach of the ban can also mean a wearer having to undergo citizenship instruction.

France has about five million Muslims - the largest Muslim minority in Western Europe - but it is thought only about 2,000 women wear full veils.

PDF download ECHR ruling[116KB]

The court ruled that the ban "was not expressly based on the religious connotation of the clothing in question but solely on the fact that it concealed the face". The Strasbourg judges' decision is final - there is no appeal against it.

A court statement said the ruling also "took into account the state's submission that the face played a significant role in social interaction".

"The Court was also able to understand the view that individuals might not wish to see, in places open to all, practices or attitudes which would fundamentally call into question the possibility of open interpersonal relationships, which, by virtue of an established consensus, formed an indispensable element of community life within the society in question."

Some face coverings, including motorbike helmets, are exempted from the French ban.

The woman, identified only by the initials SAS, took her case to the European Court in 2011. She said she was under no family pressure to wear the niqab, but chose to do so as a matter of religious freedom, as a devout Muslim.

France sets precedent
France was the first European country in modern times to ban public wearing of the full-face veil. Belgium adopted a similar ban in 2011.

In Spain, the city of Barcelona and some other towns have brought in similar bans, as have some towns in Italy.

No such general ban applies in the UK, but institutions have discretion to impose their own dress codes.

The French government argues that the ban has wide public support. The authorities see the full-face veil not only as an affront to French secular values but also as a potential security risk, as it conceals a person's identity.

In the past, the European Court has sided with French secularism - it also ruled in favour of the government's ban on headscarves in schools.

But in 2010, the judges did find against Turkey, ruling that religious garments were not in themselves a threat to public order.

[LadyTevar]

This has been a sticking point for a couple years. Does the niqab really stand as a sign of religious freedom, or is it feminine oppression to be unseen and unheard?

[TimothyC]

This has been a sticking point for a couple years. Does the niqab really stand as a sign of religious freedom, or is it feminine oppression to be unseen and unheard?

From what the article mentions, it's not an issue of (religious) repression or freedom, simply that the French government has decided that you shouldn't be allowed to hide your face in public.

[Lys]

Regardless of what the French government claims, the ban on full face coverings exists because there is a sizeable Muslim population in France, and the French public represented by this government believes that there are certain practices in Islam that are inimical to the French way of life and ideas about personal freedom. I fully support the law, but let's not tell ourselves lies about the reasons why it exists. It is plainly evident that no such law would have been passed if there were no Muslims in France.

[General Havoc]

Regardless of what the French government claims, the ban on full face coverings exists because there is a sizeable Muslim population in France, and the French public represented by this government believes that there are certain practices in Islam that are inimical to the French way of life and ideas about personal freedom. I fully support the law, but let's not tell ourselves lies about the reasons why it exists. It is plainly evident that no such law would have been passed if there were no Muslims in France.

Well yes, but that's like saying that there would be no synagogues in France if there weren't any Jews. It's true, but it's true because face veils are, in France, an element of the Muslim population and nobody else. The reason there would be no law against veils without the Muslims is because without them there would be no veils either.

[Lys]

That's not quite true. Criminals often times veil their faces in order to conceal their identities, and it would be entirely reasonable to ban face coverings on those grounds, but those are not the grounds upon which face coverings were actually banned. It is plain fact that the French government did not ban face coverings as a matter of public security, it banned them as a matter of it being a religious practice anathema to French values. The point is that, contrary to TimothyC's claim, it is absolutely a issue of religious freedom and repression, because without the religious angle there would be no ban.

[frigidmagi]

I would point out that if criminals are covering their faces to conceal their idenities while committing crime, one hardly needs a law... Additionally such a law would be silly, it's not going to actually stop criminals from wearing masks. You just want another law to smack them with in this situation.

That said... Yes, I agree that if there were no Muslims, there would be no face veil ban.

Of course if there were no Muslims there would be no group of people going around everyday with their faces covered and this wouldn't really be an issue anyone would find worthy of discussion.

[Josh]

My finding is that wearing a hockey mask in crowded places tends to result in me getting more elbow room and quicker passage through long lines.

I guess that's not an option in France, damn it.

[General Havoc]

My finding is that wearing a hockey mask in crowded places tends to result in me getting more elbow room and quicker passage through long lines.

I guess that's not an option in France, damn it.

You've never stood in a line with me...