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#1 Israel pulls troops out of Gaza

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:15 pm
by frigidmagi
BBC
Israel has withdrawn its troops from the Gaza Strip to "defensive positions" outside the Palestinian territory.

It says the main aim of its offensive - to destroy militants' tunnels - has been achieved.

A 72-hour truce - brokered by Egyptian mediators late on Monday - came into force at 08:00 local time (05:00 GMT) and appears to be holding.

Gaza officials say the four-week conflict has killed 1,800 Palestinians. Some 67 Israelis have also been killed.

"The Israel Defense Forces will be redeployed in defensive positions outside the Gaza Strip and we will maintain those defensive positions," Israeli military spokesman Lt-Col Peter Lerner said.

Just minutes before the truce came into effect, air raid sirens sounded in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv as Hamas militants fired a barrage of rockets at central Israel. Israeli forces also staged raids in Gaza shortly before the ceasefire began.

Israel launched Operation Protective Edge on 8 July with the stated aim of ending rocket attacks and destroying tunnels used by Palestinian militants.

In a statement just ahead of the withdrawal, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said that since then it had eliminated 32 tunnels designed to allow militants to carry out raids into Israel, destroyed 3,000 missiles on the ground and killed about 900 "terrorists".

The IDF estimated that some 3,300 rockets had been fired at Israel during this period, and that Hamas had another 3,000 rockets left for future use.

At the scene: Martin Patience, Gaza City

Ceasefires, truces, lulls in the fighting have all come and gone in Gaza but I think there is one big difference with this ceasefire and that is that Israeli troops have withdrawn. The reason they have been in here is to destroy the cross-border tunnels that have been dug by Hamas - the Israeli media are now reporting that that operation is complete.

In terms of what is happening here in Gaza City, it is quiet. I have just been down to the port and I have seen fishermen heading out to sea. I have been here for more than a week now and that is the first time I have seen that. People here will be taking this opportunity to get out of their homes, stock up on supplies and try to make sense of all the death and destruction here after the last four weeks.

At the scene: Bethany Bell in Jerusalem

Israel says it has withdrawn its troops from Gaza as it has completed its main goal in this operation, the destruction of 32 cross-border tunnels.

However, it is possible that some tunnels may have gone undetected and it is likely that the Israeli army's search along the border will go on. The threat of Gaza militants entering Israel from under the ground has caused great concern in Israel.

There is some suggestion that an Israeli delegation may be preparing to go to Cairo for talks on a more long-term truce. There has been intense international pressure on Israel to try to negotiate an end to the fighting, particularly given the incidents at UN schools in Gaza and the high number of Palestinian civilian casualties.

There have been several truces called during the conflict but few have lasted, with each side accusing the other of violations.

Egypt negotiated a similar truce earlier in the conflict that was accepted by Israel but rejected by Hamas.

The new agreement proposes that delegations from all sides should attend further talks in Cairo.

The main Palestinian demands remain on the table, notably a full Israeli troop withdrawal from Gaza, the end of the blockade of the territory and the opening of border crossings.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said that Israel's main goal is to "return quiet and security to the citizens of Israel".

Mustafa Barghouti, leader of the Palestinian National Initiative: "We are under a terrible siege that has to stop"
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has welcomed the ceasefire. He called on both sides to hold talks in Egypt and for them to begin as soon as possible.

Meanwhile, Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad al-Malki has met prosecutors at the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

Speaking after the meeting, he told reporters there was "clear evidence of war crimes committed by Israel amounting to crimes against humanity"
I'm glad the IDF was able to find and destroy the tunnels before they were used. I am saddened at the bloody waste however. Thousands of tons of concrete were used in those tunnels, 160 children died digging them for HAMAS. Those same tons of concrete could have been used to better purpose and those children did not deserve that. Neither did the children who died in Israeli raids.

That said I can't blame the IDF for it's actions. HAMAS choose to fire weapons into Israel and Israel did what pretty much any national government would do in such a situation. That said, many of the problems come from the legal limbo that Gaza and the West bank inhabit and that's on Israel.

#2 Re: Israel pulls troops out of Gaza

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:19 pm
by LadyTevar
If there was only a way to get Israel to shut up and hand over full rights to Gaza to the Palestinians, then we'd maybe have a decade of peace. However, that's doubtful, because this has been a family fued for the last two centuries.

#3 Re: Israel pulls troops out of Gaza

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:26 pm
by frigidmagi
HAMAS pretty much already has the full run of Gaza, that hasn't stopped them from pursuing violence. I think we're gonna have to admit that no matter what Israel does, HAMAS will not stop pursuing the goal of murdering lots and lots of Israelis.

#4 Re: Israel pulls troops out of Gaza

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:54 am
by Steve
And so long as Hamas does that, Israel will not drop the blockade and the Israelis in general see no reason to pull back the settlements or work with the Palestinians in any meaningful way.

Which means Palestinians will see no reason to not hate Israel and want to see it wiped off the map, so they will continue to join Hamas and dedicate themselves to destroying Israel, or at least reducing it until it is at Arab mercy.

The only remotely feasible solution at this time would be an outside power capable of crushing both and willing to pay the cost in blood, treasure, and rage that would result. And there is nobody who can do such.

#5 Re: Israel pulls troops out of Gaza

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:48 am
by Josh
We're too conditioned to think that there are neat solutions to problems like these. Sometimes there just ain't shit to do for the world but let it work itself out. Stick in where you can afford it and actually do some good, but don't expect to fix shit easy or for it to even be always fixable.

#6 Re: Israel pulls troops out of Gaza

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:38 pm
by LadyTevar
Steve wrote:The only remotely feasible solution at this time would be an outside power capable of crushing both and willing to pay the cost in blood, treasure, and rage that would result. And there is nobody who can do such.
Make that "Nobody WILLING to do such. Especially in heavily Christian countries who believe "God's People" need to be in Jerusalem in order for the Second Coming to get here. [cue Southern Preacher Mode]Can't have Jesus back on Earth until the Jews have rose up the Temple for all to see, you know. These pesky Palestinians are just delaying the Apocalypse, cause they know they'll be sent to Hell with the other non-Believers![/end rant]

This is why the Haddasics (sp) don't support Israel, it was created by Britain, America, and France, because no one wanted to take in the remaining Jews who'd survived the Holocaust. By Jewish Tradition, only the Messiah would bring the Jews back to Jerusalem and to their own Kingdom again. Thus, modern Israel is a not the Promised Land of the Jews.

#7 Re: Israel pulls troops out of Gaza

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:30 pm
by frigidmagi
I am in no mood to hand over Jerusalem to HAMAS.

#8 Re: Israel pulls troops out of Gaza

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:38 am
by Josh
LadyTevar wrote:Especially in heavily Christian countries who believe "God's People" need to be in Jerusalem in order for the Second Coming to get here. [cue Southern Preacher Mode]Can't have Jesus back on Earth until the Jews have rose up the Temple for all to see, you know. These pesky Palestinians are just delaying the Apocalypse, cause they know they'll be sent to Hell with the other non-Believers![/end rant]
I live around the bible belt and I've seriously never heard this argument made by anybody around here. I don't doubt you can find people who do natter on like that, but I'll bet you anything that's a seriously minority opinion. I expect most people root for Israel from a combination of them being founded in the aftermath of the Holocaust and because they're essentially a western outpost in a hostile and alien Middle East.