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#1 Air Marshal Kills Passenger, Citing Threat

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:30 pm
by Rukia
Update 24: Update 24: Air Marshal Kills Passenger, Citing Threat
12.07.2005, 05:51 PM


An agitated passenger who claimed to have a bomb in a carry-on bag was shot and killed by a federal air marshal Wednesday after he bolted frantically from a jetliner that was about to take off, officials said. No bomb was found in the bag, a U.S. official said.

The man, identified as a 44-year-old U.S. citizen, was gunned down on a jetway just before the American Airlines plane was about to leave for Orlando.

It was the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks that an air marshal had shot at anyone, Homeland Security Department spokesman Brian Doyle said.

According to a witness, the man frantically ran down the aisle of the Boeing 757, flailing his arms, while his wife tried to explain that he was mentally ill and had not taken his medication.

The passenger indicated there was a bomb in his bag and was confronted by air marshals but ran off the aircraft, Doyle said. The marshals went after him and ordered him to get down on the ground, but he did not comply and was shot when he apparently reached into the bag, Doyle said.

The plane, Flight 924, had arrived in Miami from Medellin, Colombia, just after noon, and the shooting occurred shortly after 2 p.m. as the plane was about to take off for Orlando with the man and 119 other passengers and crew, American spokesman Tim Wagner said.

After the shooting, investigators spread passengers' bags on the tarmac and let dogs sniff them for explosives, and bomb squad members blew up at least two bags.

A U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the information's sensitivity, said authorities examined the bag and found no explosives.

The concourse where the shooting took place was shut down for a half-hour, but the rest of the airport continued operating, officials said.

Mary Gardner, a passenger aboard the Orlando-bound flight, told WTVJ-TV in Miami that the man ran down the aisle from the rear of the plane. "He was frantic, his arms flailing in the air," she said. She said a woman followed, shouting, "My husband! My husband!"

Gardner said she heard the woman say her husband was bipolar - a mental illness also known as manic-depression - and had not had his medication.

Gardner said four to five shots were fired. She could not see the shooting.

After the shooting, police boarded the plane and told the passengers to put their hands on their heads, Gardner said.

"It was quite scary," she told the TV station via a cell phone. "They wouldn't let you move. They wouldn't let you get anything out of your bag."

There were only 32 air marshals at the time of the Sept. 11 attacks. The Bush administration hired thousands more afterward, but the exact number is classified.



Associated Press writers Mark Sherman and Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington contributed to this report.

Link: http://www.forbes.com/business/business ... 76644.html

So, The guy claimed to have a bomb... Did that give the Air Marshall right to soot him with out checking first?

And consider the fact that Bi-polar Disorder does NOT make you crazy... I would know...

Discuss....

#2

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:58 pm
by frigidmagi
Wheter or not he was crazy does not really apply. When you claim to have a bomb, the authories have to treat you seriously. He claimed to have a bomb and then ran, the Marshal reacted according to what he knew at the time. I rather this guy was alive and well, but Marshals, Cops and Solders have to act on what they know at the time, or risk more than one life.

#3

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:08 pm
by Josh
Yup. This is a no-win for the Air Marshal, who can either kill one man and be wrong, or not take the shot and possibly let a lot more people die. Given a bad situation, he made the best possible decision.

It's regrettable, but these things happen.

As for bipolarness, I'm bipolar 2 myself, and there are a lot of degrees to the disorder, ranging from reasonably mild (which is what mine is these days), to full-on bizarreness. Check the name Alonzo Spellman sometime in Google.

#4

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:23 pm
by Rukia
Petrosjko wrote: As for bipolarness, I'm bipolar 2 myself, and there are a lot of degrees to the disorder, ranging from reasonably mild (which is what mine is these days), to full-on bizarreness. Check the name Alonzo Spellman sometime in Google.
Interesting, I wasn't told that When I was diagnosed. I'm gonna have to talk to my doc....


You're completely right on the No-win situation. I agree! And the sad thing is it happens all the time. So many police officers get shit and worse in some cases for shootin' a guy who is potentialy dangerous. Or vice versa for not shootin' a dangerous person. It's a fucking shame.

#5

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:30 pm
by Hotfoot
Frankly, it's my opinion that a lot of mental disorders are being way too fucking overdiagnosed. Somebody shows even the slightest hint of mood swings, and there's a doctor ready to prescribe some sort of mood stabilizer or antidepressant. Someone shows the slightest hint of being scatterbrained, whoops! Off to ADD land with you.

Gotta wonder if maybe he was misdiagnosed or something. Either way, he committed suicide by cop. It's one of those situations where I feel worse for the cop and the survivor (his wife) than I do for him.

#6

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:43 pm
by Josh
Hotfoot wrote:Frankly, it's my opinion that a lot of mental disorders are being way too fucking overdiagnosed. Somebody shows even the slightest hint of mood swings, and there's a doctor ready to prescribe some sort of mood stabilizer or antidepressant. Someone shows the slightest hint of being scatterbrained, whoops! Off to ADD land with you.

Gotta wonder if maybe he was misdiagnosed or something. Either way, he committed suicide by cop. It's one of those situations where I feel worse for the cop and the survivor (his wife) than I do for him.
Oh, there's a lot of bullshit that floats around vis a vis mental health, agreed. But bipolar disorder has been fairly well documented for a loooooooong time. Back in the day it was referred to as manic depressive, but I suppose bipolar is just a more PC way to say it.

#7

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:25 pm
by Hotfoot
Yeah, I know it's been around for a while, and is reasonably well documented, but that doesn't stop drug-happy assholes from misdiagnosing someone who's had a bad week and popping them full of happy pills. It's a problem with the current psychriatic community as well as the pharmecutical community. Some new drug comes out of the FDA gates and people start looking for lots of live trials.

And in some cases, the drug gets recalled because of unexpected side effects that were long-term and couldn't adequately be tested by FDA standards.

#8

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:41 pm
by Robert Walper
The passenger indicated there was a bomb in his bag and was confronted by air marshals but ran off the aircraft, Doyle said. The marshals went after him and ordered him to get down on the ground, but he did not comply and was shot when he apparently reached into the bag, Doyle said.
The Air Marshall was fully justified in my opinion. According to the article he gave the suspect in question plenty of warning by ordering him to get down. He then shot him when he reached an obviously suspected bomb package.

This could've easily been a terrorist. And frankly, although I know this mindset probably annoy manys people, I'm a 'survival of the fittest' person. Obviously this guy wasn't mentally fit, and while upsetting, that is what caused his death.

#9

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:25 pm
by Lord Stormbringer
So, The guy claimed to have a bomb... Did that give the Air Marshall right to soot him with out checking first?
Abso-fucking-lutely!

Claim you've got a bomb, a knife, or any other weapons on an airplane and he has the responsibility to shoot if you ask me. For all he knew, this nut job was serious. Richard Reed anyone? Once Mr Crazy made the claim, that's all the justification needed.

#10

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:36 pm
by Cynical Cat
My two cents

1) My brother is mentally ill, although he is fine as long as he is on his meds. Saying he is reliable about taking his meds is an understatement.

2) Bombs and other contraband items can be passed through airport security.

3) It can take very little time to detonate a bomb.

4) The air marshals were justified in shooting him. A bomb could have killed everyone on the plane. It's unfortunate that they killed a mostly harmless mentall ill man, but if he had had a bomb he could have detonated it in moments.

#11

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:04 pm
by elderdan
I would also not be the least bit surprised that there is a lot more to this story that hasn't come out yet (and may never). Every version of this story I've seen yet is mostly quoting passengers and witnesses at the terminal who, frankly, don't actually know squat about how and why it happened. All they know is what they overheard in the rush of the situation.

It might have also been a lot less likely to happen had the plane not just arrived from someplace as volatile as Colombia.

Regardless, it seems like a tragic thing to have happened, but we no longer live in an age where you can dick around with situations of public safety. Other parts of the world have understood that for a long time; we're still pretty new to it in the U.S.

--The Elder Dan

#12

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:46 pm
by Lord Stormbringer
elderdan wrote:Regardless, it seems like a tragic thing to have happened, but we no longer live in an age where you can dick around with situations of public safety. Other parts of the world have understood that for a long time; we're still pretty new to it in the U.S.
Saying you've got any sort of weapon on a plain is a pretty good way to wind up in a really bad way, has been for years. You don't joke around or say that shit. Period.