The more the merrier

N&P: Discussion of news headlines and politics.

Moderator: frigidmagi

Post Reply
User avatar
Ace Pace
Antisemetical Semite
Posts: 2272
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:28 am
19
Location: Cuddling with stress pills
Contact:

#1 The more the merrier

Post by Ace Pace »

I'm on a trend
The more the merrier

By Galit Edut


Owners of luxury SUVs, who in recent years were criticized for purchasing the cars as status symbols, can relax. More and more Jeeps are leaving their regular parking places on the sidewalks opposite fashionable cafes in North Tel Aviv; now they can be seen on sidewalks in front of elementary schools, afternoon enrichment centers and local branches of youth movements. The past few years have seen a rise in the number of children being born to families in the upper socioeconomic classes, and sedans are just not big enough for four or five rambunctious kidschildren. Children as a status symbol are "in."

According to the Central Bureau of Statistics, in 2004 the average Israeli family numbered 3.3 souls. But families of means - with an average monthly income of NIS 50,000 - have an average household of 4.3 people, compared with 3.7 in families with a more modest income.

How did this happen? "With the abundance and the economic prosperity, I see both in my demographic and geographic area, and even among the Ashkenazi elite, young guys who want a real family, not just two kids," says Hezi Dayan, 45, who owns a computer firm. Together with his wife Dana, Dayan owns a graphic arts studio and is raising four children in one of the northern neighborhoods of Tel Aviv. As is usual in this country, societal norms are decisive: If everyone has a Jeep, we will have one, too; if everyone fills it with children they have brought into the world, why shouldn't we do the same?

"There are three variables affecting the decision about the number of children in the family," says demographer Prof. Sergio Della Pergola of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. "The societal norm, which remains strong, the family's economic capability, and the cost of raising a child." A survey conducted last year shows that nearly half the mothers of three children cited income and housing as the major factors influencing the future size of their family.

Parents, irrespective of their origin or status, want to give their children the best possible conditions, the firmest basis from which they will be able to grow and develop in life. This is probably one of the reasons why, in recent years, families from the middle class have been making do with two children, on average. Thoughts of expanding the family are usually accompanied by thorough economic considerations, which come down to the million-dollar question: Can we afford another child?

"My wife and I are salaried, but our salaries are swallowed up by the high costs of raising the children," says Gadi, 35, a father of two from central Tel Aviv. Having another child would not be smart, economically. We've decided to wait a few years, and if our economic situation makes it possible, we'll think about having another child. At the moment it's out of the question."

A survey of household expenses for 2005 shows that the average monthly expenditure of the top fifth of the population is NIS 16,959 - nearly three times as much as the bottom fifth. The smallest gap was in food expenses; the largest was in communications, education, culture and entertainment.

"Precisely in the material things, such as food, I do not see a difference between a third child and a fifth child. It really makes no difference whether you put four or six drumsticks in the oven," writer Smadar Shir notes. "The significant difference is in the special enrichment groups, in education and in clothes." Shir and her husband, Prof. Ami Sidi, director of the urology department at Wolfson Medical Center in Holon, have six children.

Many parents say they want to give their children everything they themselves lacked, to give them the best, without limit. It is universally agreed that this is somewhat difficult to do when you earn an average salary and have to pay rent or meet mortgage payments.

"My children always had endless menus of enrichment groups," Shir relates. "They play tennis, go horseback riding, do jamboree sports. Yuli, my youngest daughter, started learning how to swim from the age of six months, and now, at four and a half, she is learning English."

Afternoon activities

It's not clear what comes first - whether it is because both parents work around the clock that they want to give their children something useful to do in the long afternoon hours, or whether their deep pockets make it possible to send their kids to several afternoon enrichment groups. "Because we are out of the house so much, we decided that each of the children would go to four activity groups," say Gili and Liav Ariav, parents of five. He is a pilot with El Al and she owns a PR firm. "We spend NIS 3,000 a month on those groups alone."

The ability to give one's children everything they need without getting into an argument with the bank manager is not the only factor here. The couple's desire to continue living a comfortable life is also a key element; they want to realize all their dreams, to go abroad on vacation, to fulfill their ongoing cultural and entertainment needs, and not to live only for the children.

"I go to the gym three times a week," says Ronit Albin, who owns a manpower firm. She and her husband Guy, a salesman for a kitchen company, are raising four children. "I do not forgo what I need or things that give me energy and strength. I would not want to feel that we gave up something for the children's sake."

Nowadays, as the average age at marriage has risen and with it the average age of parents when they have their first child (in 2004 it was 27.3) - people are becoming parents after having drunk deeply of life's pleasures. When they decide to have a big family, it usually happens quite quickly. The eldest child of Guy and Ronit Albin is 6 years old, and their three other children were born at two-year intervals. The children of Hezi and Dana Dayan were also born at short intervals: They are now 8, 7, 5 and 4 years old. The firstborn of Liat and Gili Ariav is 15, and the youngest, the fifth, is 4 and a half.

When there are four or five small children at home and both parents work full-time, household help is as necessary as a day off on Friday for salaried employees. "In the current summer vacation I am spending about NIS 6,000 a month for nannies," Albin explains. Gadi, with two children, says: "We spend almost a third of our income, about NIS 5,000 a month, on private kindergartens."

According to Prof. Della Pergola, Gadi's case is representative: "One of the main points that came up in the study we conducted was the cost of education, and especially the expenses of the early childhood period," he explains. "There were women who said explicitly that if the conditions were right, they would want another child."

Nanny, cleaner, babysitter

When one is raising five children and working full time, time becomes a precious commodity - too precious to waste on washing dishes or housecleaning. "I employ an au pair in the house and she handles all the housework," Liat Ariav says. "I don't have time for that. If I had to come home and start dealing with the laundry, I would not be able to devote time to the children."

Albin, too, admits that without help she would not be able to cope: "My husband and I are self-employed, but I made a decision that at 4 P.M. I put down the pen and pick up the children from the kindergarten. Despite this, I am with clients on the phone in the afternoon, so I have a regular babysitter three hours a day, a cleaning woman once a week and a nanny for the baby, who is with him at home from 8 A.M. to 4 P.M."

Home help makes it possible for mothers, who are mostly responsible for raising the children, to continue to advance their careers and not put off going back to work until the children are older.

"I opened my business when I had my second child," Ariav relates. "My husband was in the career army and we lived on Nevatim [air base]. I would drive every day from the base to Tel Aviv, which took two hours each way. That can be done - you learn how to exploit the time properly. Everything, in my opinion, is a matter of decision."

Dayan has a similar story: "I established the studio when I was in my first pregnancy," she says, "and from the outset I set limits, such as coming home at a reasonable time to be with the children, or not working on Fridays. I am a mother parallel to being the owner of a business, and because I am self-employed, it works out well."

A client called Albin as she was on the way to give birth, but she still took the call. "He called to ask where the receipt was," she laughs. "I asked him to let it be for the time being. Over the years, the children have dovetailed with my career and did not bring it to a halt, as people usually think happens. I do not do anything in a total way, neither motherhood nor career."

Asked if she understand families who want more children but decide against having them because of economic factors, Albin says: "If I didn't have children, then what? I would make another NIS 30,000 a month? Children are something that fulfill me and are an integral part of me. I do not judge anyone, but absolutely, if you don't have money, don't have children. Children cost a lot, and if you can't hire help, it's hard."

The Ariavs admit that there was no economic consideration in their decision to have five children. "But," they add, "there is no doubt that children cost a great deal of money. We both work and we give our children a great deal. They are all in enrichment groups, in the Scouts and in camps, each of them has his own room and his own computer, and relatively they live in a very well-to-do way."

Economy of the heart

Only Dayan talks about a different type of economy - the economy of the heart: "When I thought about having a fourth child, I did not think about economic concerns. I was afraid that I would not be able to divide my love among all of them. But it is divided equally: The heart has no barriers, it is like a huge bag that expands as needed. But still, the increase from three to four children is significant. You change from being a regular family to a large family, a regular car doesn't hold them all, and the apartment has to be suited to the new needs and be larger."

Whereas in Europe the average fertility rate is 1.2 children, in Israel it is 2.7 per woman. "We wanted a big family," Dayan says, expressing a desire shared by many. "We knew that we would not make do with one child and a dog."

In Israel, the powerful desire to have children has given rise to a situation in which those who want a child will have one in the end, even if it involves lengthy and expensive fertility treatments.

"Since I can remember, my dream has been a small house, a tile roof, a green lawn and children from wall to wall," Shir reveals. "So you discover that life is not a program-on-demand, that it doesn't depend so much on whether you will be able to become pregnant, or on how much money you will spend on gynecological and fertility treatments. With the years, and despite the difficulties, there were people who told me, 'If things had been easier for you, maybe you would have closed the zipper after two births.' I never accepted that. My urge was not to prove that one can overcome the laws of nature, but to express a sincere love for children."

After many fertility treatments, the prospects for a multiple birth increase - and there you go: Another "family blessed with children" is about to become part of the statistics. And if the statistics say that such families belong mostly to the ultra-Orthodox Jewish or the Arab sector, then will we not raise an eyebrow every time we hear about a secular family that is raising five children?

"People ask me if I am religious," Liat Ariav says, and says contemptuously, "really, to have five children today you don't have to be religious." Some assume that Shir, too, is deeply religious. "People think I am a settler," she laughs. "Some people wonder if you can't buy condoms in Ramat Gan. We are still in a situation in which a family with six children is considered unusual."

But it's just a matter of time. If voices of children are heard coming out of every window in your neighborhood, along with the murmuring of foreign nannies, get the playpen ready: You may be next in line.

"There is no doubt that there is influence in the sphere of the individual's social network," Della Pergola says. "If one's neighbor or one's colleague does a certain thing, and I think it is desirable, and I have the appropriate conditions, I will do it, too, and this includes expanding the family."

Even if all the economic conditions have been fulfilled, the money flows steadily into the bank account and there is a computer in every room - there are still a few trivial constraints that will not allow the couples interviewed here to emulate the American family that recently gained fame for having 10 children.

"If I didn't work so hard, maybe I would have another child," says Ariav. Shir explains: "I don't know what number I would have reached if I could have become a mother in the natural way." And Dayan raises another point: "If I had started parenthood a few years earlier, another child would have been a possibility."

The shrinking continent

The birth rate in developed countries has declined sharply in recent years and fallen below the level required to prevent a population from shrinking ?(at least 2.1 children per family?). Italy is the best example. Even though it is a Catholic country, the fertility rate there in 2000 was 2.1 births per woman. In Western Europe today the average is 1.4 births per woman - France and Ireland lead with 1.8, while in Denmark and Spain the figure is only 1.2. Japan is also shrinking in population, with 1.3 births per woman on average.

"In one sense we are different from those countries," demographer Della Pergola sums up. "Here, people would like to have three children at least, but there are economic constraints that have a negative effect on this. According to the society's infrastructure of values, if the conditions are right, the public will want more children - as opposed to the infrastructure in other countries, in which this consideration does not have an effect. There they do not want more children."
[img=left]http://www.libriumarcana.com/Uploads/Ace/acewip7.jpg[/img]Grand Dolphin Conspiracy
The twin cub, the Cyborg dolphin wolf.

Dorsk 81: this is why I support the separation of Aces eyebrow's, something that ugly should never be joined

Mayabird:You see what this place does to us? It's like how Eskimos have their 16 names for snow. We have to precisely define what shafting we're receiving.

"Do we think Israel would be nuts enough to go back into Lebanon with Olmert still in power and calling the shots? They could hook Sharon up to a heart monitor and interpret the blips and bleeps as "yes" and "no" and do better than that, both strategically and emotionally."
User avatar
frigidmagi
Dragon Death-Marine General
Posts: 14757
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
19
Location: Alone and unafraid

#2

Post by frigidmagi »

I should note that in the US it's a bit different as well. In the mid-west it is considered perfectly normal, decent and good to have 3 childern, many in my graduating class married and had childern right out of high school, a good number of them having a second child while I was serving (I remember leaving right before one classmate married, when I got back 4 years later she had 2 kids and was planning a 3rd). But in regions like California it's more European in nature.

There are also religious groups like the Mormons and Hispanic Catholics that place a high value on having many childern.

Of course this being the US, not everyone can agree (I swear we can't get togather as a nation and agree on anything) for example those who consider themselves liberal appear to be less likely to have childern (recent survey which may or may not be trustworthy states the gap at 41%).

This isn't to say birth rates are stable, for example 2002 was one of the lower spikes in recent history but saw a raise in births in 2003 and 2004, I have been unable to find birth rate data for 2005.

Japan's problem is one of it's own making. Basically they refused to give women economic or social equality but gave them political equality and enough social freedom that there were plenty of ways for them to refuse to have anything to do with the system they see as keeping them down.

A large part of the Japanese female population is simply refusing to marry and have childern, because they feel current arrangements would make it impossible for them to be anything but housewives and they want more.

An interesting side note, the US and Irelands birthrate are higher than the People's Republic of China.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
User avatar
Narsil
Lord of Time
Posts: 1883
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:26 am
19
Location: A Scot in England
Contact:

#3

Post by Narsil »

An interesting side note, the US and Irelands birthrate are higher than the People's Republic of China.
Ireland and the US aren't suffering from overpopulation at the moment, however. Ireland is quite wide-open spaces, and the US is even more so, while China has either superdense cities or inhospitable wasteland as the only places to live.

The birthrate in the UK (including Northern Ireland) lends itself to two-to-four children per family (with one or two exceptions) as well.
Image
User avatar
frigidmagi
Dragon Death-Marine General
Posts: 14757
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
19
Location: Alone and unafraid

#4

Post by frigidmagi »

That's part of it yes, another part of it is a Government ruthless in it's enforcement of the One Child policy. How ruthless? 3500 abortions a month ruthless. Another thing to consider is the fact that there are increasingly fewer women of child bearing years in China (this is what happens you start drowning female babies in wells morons). Course this isn't limited to China, India has so many problems it is now illegal for doctors over to tell you the sex of your child before birth. Abortions for female fetus are extremly popular you see.

This means both nations are going to get a alot grayer in the coming decades and as the average age creeps up they will have to make some desicisions on industry, immgratation and family they never thought they would. Welcome to the first world guys.

At this point I would say the world may not have to worry about a population explosion, it may have to worry about a population crash.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
User avatar
Mayabird
Leader of the Marching Band
Posts: 1635
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:53 pm
19
Location: IA > GA
Contact:

#5

Post by Mayabird »

I think the babies in the well actually occured in India (where dozens of babies and fetuses were found in a well behind a clinic) but you're right about that.

For the south and Mormon country it's not just the number of births but also the generation time. When Mormons are expected to marry and start having dozens of kids in their teens, they grow much faster than if generation times took a few more years. Same here, where kids start having kids in high school (as my mom says, "Being a grandmother before age 40 is NOT something to be proud of, you [many expletives deleted].")

Japan is also crowded and very expensive, which makes child-rearing difficult so that couples are disinclined to have many children anyway. However, this is not to say that Japanese men are not pigs, because they are and many Japanese women want nothing to do with them. It's even more telling how the divorce rate spikes right at retirement age, when couples actually have to start putting up with each other. The men still expect the women to be house slaves and now just sit around and gripe about not being able to work twelve hours a day, and the women realize that they have twenty-thirty years of this to put up with.
I :luv: DPDarkPrimus!

Storytime update 8/31: Frigidmagi might be amused by this one.
User avatar
frigidmagi
Dragon Death-Marine General
Posts: 14757
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
19
Location: Alone and unafraid

#6

Post by frigidmagi »

On the flip side, as long as you get kids through high school and they aren't stuck on welfare with no way out of it I don't see being a grandparent at 40 something to be ashamed of either. It ain't the age, it's how well the kids are doing.

However it does show how different viewpoints are likely to affect how many childern you have. Things like ambition can effect it to, ambition is one of the reasons I'm in college at 25 and not back home with a kid. Nor am I the only member of my graduating class for every boy or girl who got married another went to college, joined the services or otherwise attempted to advance themselves past a highschool education.

Sidenote, Cenus data shows that teen births have been dropping in the US, while births by women in their late 20s to early 40s are rising, I figure that's another example of the above point.

And I'm pretty sure the well thing happened in China to, there are only so many ways to hide a body in the end after all.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
Post Reply