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#1 Italian PM to hold crisis talks on foreign policy rifts

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:36 am
by frigidmagi
MSN
Romano Prodi, Italy's prime minister, will hold an emergency session of his quarrelling centre-left coalition on Tuesday to try to end a defence and foreign policy crisis that one minister said threatened the government's survival.

The meeting will address the sensitive questions of Italy's involvement in Nato's military operations in Afghanistan as well as the planned expansion of a US military base near Venice, Mr Prodi told reporters.

Both issues have divided Mr Prodi's nine-party coalition, with the so-called "radical left" – two communist parties and the Greens – refusing to support the pro-Nato and pro-US line of the government's more moderate parties.

Clemente Mastella, justice minister and leader of the Udeur, a small centrist party, said: "I am loyal to Prodi but if the extreme left votes against [keeping our forces in] Afghanistan, that changes everything for me."

He added: "I cannot hide the fact that on foreign policy I have grave concerns. The extreme left really risks causing the fall of the government."

Italy's former centre-right government, which was a keen supporter of US foreign policy, deployed almost 2,000 troops in Afghanistan under Nato's auspices and also sent forces to Iraq.

Mr Prodi, who took power in May, pulled Italian soldiers out of Iraq but supports the Afghan mission, saying it is a legitimate Nato-led operation approved by the United Nations.

However, a poll last month suggested 56 per cent of Italians and 64 per cent of centre-left voters, wanted their troops to leave Afghanistan.

Mr Prodi's coalition has a one-seat majority in parliament's upper house and his government would probably fall if a few radical leftists rebelled or were absent from a confidence vote.

The radical left wants to force the premier and his allies to set an "exit strategy" for Italian troops, even though Afghanistan's internal stability is far from secured. The dimensions of the dispute broadened last weekend when the Rome ambassadors of six of Italy's allies – Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Romania, the UK and the US – wrote an open letter urging Italy not to abandon Afghanistan.

Massimo D'Alema, Italy's foreign minister, and Arturo Parisi, defence minister – reacted icily to the letter, calling it "irregular".

The second dispute concerns a US base in the city of Vicenza, which the Pentagon wants to double in size in order to house its 173rd Airborne Brigade. Mr Prodi feels obliged to keep a promise given to the US by the previous government that Italy would allow the base's expansion to proceed.

However, Mr Prodi suffered a blow last week when the centre-right opposition passed a parliamentary motion supporting the base's expansion. For fear of a radical leftist revolt, the government had felt unable to propose such a motion itself.

Mr Prodi and his allies were painted as incapable of pursuing big elements of foreign and defence policy without opposition support – a situation that, according to Silvio Berlusconi, the centre-right leader and former premier, calls for the government's resignation.
Ow. While I have some mixed feelings on the letter, the pullout of Italian troops would put the servicemen of those nations at great risk and force them to try and cover more ground, so yes I have to say it's valid of the ambassors to not want the Italians to leave and want to talk about it.

That being said, is it me or are Italian governments very unstable?

#2 Re: Italian PM to hold crisis talks on foreign policy rifts

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:01 am
by Cynical Cat
frigidmagi wrote: That being said, is it me or are Italian governments very unstable?
They are. Proportionate seating sucks as a way of choosing electoral seats.

#3 Re: Italian PM to hold crisis talks on foreign policy rifts

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:31 pm
by Cpl Kendall
frigidmagi wrote:
Ow. While I have some mixed feelings on the letter, the pullout of Italian troops would put the servicemen of those nations at great risk and force them to try and cover more ground, so yes I have to say it's valid of the ambassors to not want the Italians to leave and want to talk about it.

That being said, is it me or are Italian governments very unstable?
From what I've been told about the Italians from guys that have been to Afghanistan is that the Italian troops are next to useless anyways. Their just holding down the fort and patroling Kabul and not being utilized fighting the Taliban, so while their loss would be unfortunate it wouldn't be a catastrophe.

#4

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:48 pm
by frigidmagi
Not Catastrophe, but with them in Kabul that's more troops we can have actually confronting the enemy as opposing to babysitting the capital. If they pull out we'll have to pull troops from the combat zone to sit on the capital. Given that the only nations actually fighting are yours, mine, Nitram's and the Dutch... I rather not do that.

#5

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:31 pm
by Cpl Kendall
frigidmagi wrote:Not Catastrophe, but with them in Kabul that's more troops we can have actually confronting the enemy as opposing to babysitting the capital. If they pull out we'll have to pull troops from the combat zone to sit on the capital. Given that the only nations actually fighting are yours, mine, Nitram's and the Dutch... I rather not do that.
I'd say we could replace them with the Afghan National Army, this would be a good one for them to warm up on but their more useless then the Italians. It seems that no one is willing to contribute more troops and the countries that are there are losing interest.

#6

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:55 pm
by frigidmagi
I'd say we could replace them with the Afghan National Army, this would be a good one for them to warm up on but their more useless then the Italians. It seems that no one is willing to contribute more troops and the countries that are there are losing interest.
That reminds me. I'm hearing rumors that Canada will be pulling out after the next election, given Harpers inability to convince voters he isn't secretly an anidroid?

#7

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:11 pm
by Cpl Kendall
frigidmagi wrote: That reminds me. I'm hearing rumors that Canada will be pulling out after the next election, given Harpers inability to convince voters he isn't secretly an anidroid?
We're committed definetly until 2009 by a unanimus vote of Parliament just recently. After that I couldn't tell you what's going to happen. Current polls show Canadian support for the mission at 57% in favour, so not great but enough to continue. In truth this has been both the best and the worst thing that has happened to the CF since Korea, granting widespread combat experiance to the force and in getting us better kit but the losses have touched everyone in the CF community. In a force of only 60,000 of which approx 20,000 are Army it's virtually assured that someone knows someone thats been killed or wounded or coming back with PTSD. So it's been a bittersweet tasking for us, just as I would imagine that it's been for everyone.

#8

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:31 am
by frigidmagi
I'm sorry for y'all's loses I know what's that like. Saddly the only comfort I can offer is that if we do set up a working semi-democratic government in Afghanistan, the odds of our children or grandchildren having to go back is much less.

#9

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:06 pm
by Cpl Kendall
CTV News
Senate report takes 'hard look' at Afghanistan

Updated Mon. Feb. 12 2007 11:15 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A hard-hitting Senate report released Monday says Ottawa has to overcome numerous 'obstacles' to ensure that Canada's mission in Afghanistan is successful.

The 15-point strategy, titled "Taking a Hard Look at a Hard Mission," calls for a 'defensible buffer zone' on the Afghan side of Pakistan's remote border regions.

Pakistan has come under criticism for not being able to control the rugged border, allowing militants to cross almost unhindered from Pakistan to Afghanistan.

The report also says Ottawa needs to warn its NATO allies that Canada will rethink its commitment in Afghanistan if other countries don't send "a significantly larger and fully-engaged" stability force to Kandahar within a year.

"It is... doubtful that the mission can be accomplished given the limited resources that NATO is currently investing," the report says.

In addition to the request, the committee also says 60 more Canadian police officers -- up from the 10 currently there -- are needed to help train local law enforcement officers. It also says 250 Canadian troops are needed to help teach the Afghan National Army.

On development, the Senate defence committee says $20 million a year must be given to the military until aid groups are able to operate safely in the country.

"The combination of too many lives being lost and too little development assistance... contributes to making life bleak and dangerous in the Kandahar region," says the report.

The committee also accuses the Afghan government of rampant corruption. It demands that President Hamid Karzai implement a "comprehensive, transparent and effective plan" to reduce corruption.

"I think the most important recommendation is that the solution has to be in us helping the Afghans solve their problem," Liberal Sen. Colin Kenny said at a news conference in Ottawa on Monday.

"We cannot stay there forever and the best use of our resources is to bring stability and to provide assistance so that the Afghans can provide for their own stability in the future."

Kenny said that will still take an "extraordinarily long period of time, a significantly greater effort by the allies and a great deal of money."

The report is an attempt at "improving the odds," says the committee, but they admit the Taliban has "time and geography on their side."

"Are Canadians willing to commit themselves to decades of involvement in Afghanistan, which could cost hundreds of Canadian lives and billions of dollars?" asks the report.

Canada has about 2,500 soldiers based in Afghanistan, mostly in the Kandahar region. Since the mission began in 2002, 44 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan.

With files from The Canadian Press
Looks like there are rumblings of a prelude to a pullout by Canada. The Senate is saying we should re-evaluate our role if we don't get help within the year. Of course what Parliament does with that is anyones guess.

#10

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:09 pm
by frigidmagi
If Canada can hold on until 2009, odds are whoever is elected in the US will have to withdraw a large amount of troops from Iraq. One would think that a good number of those troops would be useful in Afghanistan.

#11

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:13 pm
by Cpl Kendall
frigidmagi wrote:If Canada can hold on until 2009, odds are whoever is elected in the US will have to withdraw a large amount of troops from Iraq. One would think that a good number of those troops would be useful in Afghanistan.
Lets hope this is the course of action they opt for.