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#1 Iraq Commander asks for more time and troops.

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:02 pm
by frigidmagi
CSM
Gen. David Petraeus assessed Thursday what he needs to succeed, in his first press conference after almost a month on the job as commander of US forces in Iraq.

The core of his assessment: He needs 2,200 more soldiers and more time. But the general also warned that those things alone won't be enough to bring success.

Instead, he said, the "critical" issue for Iraq was whether a spirit of compromise – elusive during four years of war – will emerge among Iraq's politicians. He said the US job is to provide security that could help calm sectarian passions and create space for politics to work.

"Any student of history recognizes there is no military solution to a problem like that in Iraq,'' General Petraeus, who helped pen America's new counterinsurgency manual before taking up his new post, told reporters. Instead, what's needed is political "reconciliation ... for people who felt that Iraq did not have a place for them."

He also said that it will be "critical" to work with some of the militants who have been fighting to undermine the government. This seemed to indicate support for reaching out to the Sunni insurgents behind the vast majority of US casualties.

But he and his aides are seeking to extend the size and duration of the "surge." That's in line with the counterinsurgency manual, which calls for a sustained large ground presence in conflicts like Iraq.

The surge was originally advertised as topping out at 21,500 additional troops. But on Wednesday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said that Petraeus had requested 2,200 more military police – to serve as jailors for an expected increase in detainees – and that an additional 2,400 support troops would be needed, bringing the total surge to 27,100, a 21-percent increase over original expectations.

Frederick Kagan, an analyst at the American Enterprise Institute and an advocate of adding troops, blames the White House for the impression that the surge is growing. He says support troops were always going to be needed, but the Bush adminstration failed to make that clear. But he adds that Petraeus will ask for even more troops if he thinks they're needed. "Of course the enemy has a vote and the situation can change."

US officials had projected that troop levels would start to fall again by August. Petraeus said the troops will have to stay until "some time well beyond the summer." The New York Times reported that a recent confidential memo by Petraeus's principal deputy, Lt. Gen. Ray Odierno, called for the additional troops to stay through February 2008.

Petraeus supporters say he's being honest in pitching for a long timeline, but that he's also politically savvy enough not to ask for everything he wants all at once.

"I am positive he will be truthful to himself and inside the command, and he will be blunt with the administration because he's been given a losing hand and he's going to try to make this thing come out the right way,'' says Barry McCaffrey, a retired four-star general. Petraeus won't "delude himself and others when he knows he has 24 months to turn this around."

The US won't be at full strength in Iraq until June. But even then, General McCaffrey warns, lasting gains won't be made quickly. "Can you, by continuous levels of combat presence, change the underlying nature of a civil war? Or course not, and Petraeus knows that,'' he says. What Petraeus can do, McCaffrey argues, is to create conditions in which the Shiite-backed government and allied militias and Sunni Arab insurgents decide it's in neither's interest to keep fighting.

Petraeus said Thursday that Sunni insurgents appear to be moving out of the way of heightened US combat patrols, and said he may soon dispatch more forces to Diyala Province, just north of Baghdad. Sunni insurgents appear to be regrouping there, he said. Petraeus did strike some upbeat notes, saying that Sunni Arab Anbar Province – home to Fallujah and locale of the most US combat deaths – has been calmer, and attributed that to local leaders saying "enough" to the conflict.
I'll be honest, I don't think we're going to get the time we need. A quick look at the Democrat plan makes me pretty sure of that.

Why do they want to be out by Augest 2008? Well to be fairer then I want to be, they've wanted to be out before that for awhile now. But as to the date they've chosen... They do not want another Presidental election with Iraq as the central issue. Niether Obama or Hillary the current front runners can get a broad base of support on Iraq or so the popular wisdom goes (Obama is in a better position if you ask me, he never supported the war and so can claim a greater 'purity'). And if they win they don't want to have to deal with Jr's mess in Iraq, they want it done before a Democrat President has to make any decisions, because no matter what that President decides to do, he or she is going to be assaulted by someone.

#2

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:36 am
by The Duchess of Zeon
Bush will veto the bill, it's been announced.

It's been obvious since 2004 that there would be no withdrawal from Iraq until Bush is replaced. This is all about showmanship.

If a Republican is elected in 2008 (unlikely--but possible if it comes down to personality like McCain or Guiliani rather than a conservative nutjob in the Bush mould like our Moron friend Romney from MA) the troops will be out before the 2010 midterm elections, because if they're not it would totally destroy the Republican party in the House and Senate (and even if a Republican wins in 2008 the democrats will retain control of the House and Senate). So we'll say it'll be timed so that the last troops are out by October of 2010 so that they can use that to dispel any potential democratic "October surprises", and that the news of the withdrawal is very fresh in peoples' minds and strongly associated with the President when it takes place, when they go to the polls that year, in hope of therefore regaining the Republican majority in at least one of the houses.

If a Democrat is elected in 2008, I expect that the campaign promise will be that the troops will be "home by Christmas"--which of course means Christmas of 2009, since he/she wouldn't be inaugerated until January of 2009. Also, the simple fact of the matter is that it's very, very obvious that Bush has intentionally refused to sanction any kind of planning for a withdraw whatsoever, and so whomever is elected in January of 2009 will have to oversee the planning and execution of the withdrawal entirely from scratch. For that to take less than a year is essentially impossible. So December of 2009 will be the earliest date that US troops have fully evacuated Iraq, and expect us, no matter who gets elected, to keep special forces units operating in Kurdistan for some time to come after the "full withdrawal", though you won't hear about that for another two or three decades.

#3

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:06 pm
by SirNitram
Guiliani, Romney, and McCain are all damaged goods. Too many divorces, too much time ruling liberal states, too many 'wedge issues' they're on the wrong side of, plus Romney quoted Castro at the psycho-Cubans in Florida.

But it's no surprise that everyone wants Iraq done before the next election. This is a war of Bush's ego now, and everyone else realizes it, save perhaps Lieberman. The number of people supporting the war has fallen to 30%; it's cutting into 'Vote party ticket' territory and no one wants those zombies waking.

Constantly insisting that 'The next few months' are all that's neede, treating the war as a political sideshow for votes instead of a war, and trumpeting the big 'surge' of a few drops into the ocean well before it starts, all lead inevitably to Iraq floundering in it's present state, if not getting worse. General Petraeus gave it no more than a one-in-four chance to succeed.

Of course, the Pentagon is planning to draw down troop levels and enter an 'advisory' role if the Surge fails. This, of course, is predicated on no more political muck being slapped out as 'strategy'.

#4

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:55 pm
by The Duchess of Zeon
SirNitram wrote:Guiliani, Romney, and McCain are all damaged goods. Too many divorces, too much time ruling liberal states, too many 'wedge issues' they're on the wrong side of, plus Romney quoted Castro at the psycho-Cubans in Florida.
Which won't stop them, considering how collapsed the "moral majority" is at this point.
Of course, the Pentagon is planning to draw down troop levels and enter an 'advisory' role if the Surge fails. This, of course, is predicated on no more political muck being slapped out as 'strategy'.
Oh, they will. There will be no withdrawals under Bush.

#5

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:32 pm
by SirNitram
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Guiliani, Romney, and McCain are all damaged goods. Too many divorces, too much time ruling liberal states, too many 'wedge issues' they're on the wrong side of, plus Romney quoted Castro at the psycho-Cubans in Florida.
Which won't stop them, considering how collapsed the "moral majority" is at this point.
Of course, the Pentagon is planning to draw down troop levels and enter an 'advisory' role if the Surge fails. This, of course, is predicated on no more political muck being slapped out as 'strategy'.
Oh, they will. There will be no withdrawals under Bush.
As I said, a war of personal ego. Hundreds of years ago, the British figured out things like this happened, and seperated powers to prevent it. America, sadly, seems to need an object lesson, and it is quite heartbreaking to see how many must shed blood for it.

The 'Moral Majority' are DOA. But McCain is equally DOA(He's considered more liberal than most of the Democrats in polls I get to leaf through), Guiliani has to depend on '9/11' as his only real credo, and I don't think Romney has anything going his way to any other faction. Really, if a Republican gets the White House in 08, it'll be because the Democrats get too many people voting against their candidate.

#6

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:05 pm
by Josh
SirNitram wrote:The 'Moral Majority' are DOA. But McCain is equally DOA(He's considered more liberal than most of the Democrats in polls I get to leaf through), Guiliani has to depend on '9/11' as his only real credo, and I don't think Romney has anything going his way to any other faction. Really, if a Republican gets the White House in 08, it'll be because the Democrats get too many people voting against their candidate.
Or Hillary runs, but I've got a feeling that Obama's coming up on a major Kennedy surge.

McCain's not a 'liberal' any more than he's, well, anything worth a shit. He's a breeze-waving fuckwit who only sticks to positions when he believes they serve him. Romney's candidacy only exists in his own mind, really. Guliani does have a bit more than 9/11- NYC did improve considerably under his administration, by most accounts. That said, he was also sinking in personal scandal as he tried to gun for the Senate, but the kicker here is that all that is old news.

It's too early to call because the Dredging of the Mud has not truly commenced, but I'd lay money on Guliana v. Obama with Obama taking it, probably reversing the Bush/Kerry margins or close to it.

#7

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:16 pm
by SirNitram
I'm just waiting for the mudslinging to get ahold of Guiliani's crossdressing performance.

The 'RAR WE SO MANLY' faction of Republicans will not be happy.

#8

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:18 pm
by Josh
SirNitram wrote:I'm just waiting for the mudslinging to get ahold of Guiliani's crossdressing performance.

The 'RAR WE SO MANLY' faction of Republicans will not be happy.
He's a YANKEE from the goddamned CITY. He could be friggin' Sergeant York and they won't be very happy with him. But they're damned short on alternatives, and he does have the 9/11 cred.

#9

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:27 pm
by Comrade Tortoise
I live in McCain's state... and I honestly dont want him elected to any office ever ever again... but that's just me.

Son of a bitch sold me out. Twice.

#10

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:36 pm
by The Duchess of Zeon
I don't think Obama is electable. This nation is not yet prepared to have a black president. It is as simple as that; it has nothing to do with his policies and everything to do with the colour of his skin.

#11

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:28 pm
by Lord Iames Osari
Perhaps not. But only time will tell.

#12

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:53 pm
by Josh
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I don't think Obama is electable. This nation is not yet prepared to have a black president. It is as simple as that; it has nothing to do with his policies and everything to do with the colour of his skin.
Once upon a time the controversy was over a Catholic who would be beholden to the Papacy.

If he's smart, and I've not watched him enough to get a real read on that as compared to his hype, he can slick his way right past that. The smart theme would be something along the lines of making history, but not making amends.