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#1 Pakistan 'no' to Bin Laden strike

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:12 pm
by frigidmagi
BBC
akistan has again said it opposes any military strike by the United States against Osama Bin Laden, if he is confirmed to be in Pakistan.

Foreign minister Khurshid Kasuri told the BBC public opinion in his country would not tolerate such an attack.

He said he was concerned that any US operation against Bin Laden could lead to dozens of civilian deaths.

Washington has said nothing can be ruled out in the pursuit of the al-Qaeda leader.

White House spokesman Tony Snow said the US recognised Pakistan's sovereignty, but the Bush administration always maintained the option of striking actionable targets.

Earlier Mr Kasuri had said that Bin Laden was not in Pakistan.

'Safe haven'

US director of national intelligence Mike McConnell said recently he believed the architect of the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US was in northern Pakistan, near the Afghan border.

Meanwhile, a recent US intelligence report says al-Qaeda is intensifying efforts to put operatives into the US.

The report says the nation is at a heightened risk of attack.

Analysts warn that al-Qaeda's leaders have found a "safe haven" in Pakistani tribal areas, which has allowed them to regroup.

The BBC's Ilyas Khan in Islamabad says a raging debate is continuing in Pakistan over US national intelligence reports that point to the consolidation of the al-Qaeda in the country's tribal areas.

President Pervez Musharraf last week vowed to root out extremists "from every corner of the country".
And people wonder why I'm not exactly overflowing with love towards Pakistan.

#2

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:49 am
by Cpl Kendall
It is their country, it should be done with their permission. That being said, what would killing him accomplish? He's nothing but a powerless figurehead, if he's even still alive. Nobody's heard from him for quite a while. I think it would be better to capture and interrogate him, if just to find out the history of AQ. I doubt that he presents any current intelligence value at all.

#3

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:31 am
by Dartzap
Possibly it would be far easier for some commando types to be sent in to nab him, if they knew where he was and knew that would get in without setting half the Taleban after them? Could have sworn that's what SEALS were trained to do :smile:

#4

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:16 pm
by frigidmagi
It is their country, it should be done with their permission. That being said, what would killing him accomplish? He's nothing but a powerless figurehead, if he's even still alive. Nobody's heard from him for quite a while. I think it would be better to capture and interrogate him, if just to find out the history of AQ. I doubt that he presents any current intelligence value at all.
I don't want to kill him, I'll settle for killing him but I rather capture him and make him go through standing trail for everything he's done and ordered others to do. Then I'll happily hang him (yes take that literally).

As for what it would accomplish, bluntly everyday Osama skips about Pakistan is another day Al Q can point and say "See America can't touch us, Allah provides" In a war like this perception means quiet a bit and the perception that Osama can dance about outside of the US and the rest of the West's reach is pretty helpful to them.

Not to mention, he is guilty of killing thousands of Americans in not just the 911 strikes but in strikes that took place over the 90s and across the globe (the Saudi barracks strike, the USS Cole, the African embassy attacks, how many attacks on the towers?) It is the duty and responsiblity to find, capture, try and punish this man. The fact that George W Bush has failed in this duty is part of the reason for my disgust with the man and I will not be light on any government that fails that duty.

As for Pakistan, shielding the man responsible for so much death among our citizens is not the act of an ally or even a responsible nation state. What would you say if the US shielded a Quebeci terrorist who had bombed downtown Ottawa? You would be enraged and don't pretend otherwise.

#5

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:25 pm
by Comrade Tortoise
You know me... At least in principle I tend to go with the 'gunboat diplomacy" side of international politics. If they want to shelter the fucker, they can deal with the consequences

#6

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:40 pm
by Cpl Kendall
frigidmagi wrote:
I don't want to kill him, I'll settle for killing him but I rather capture him and make him go through standing trail for everything he's done and ordered others to do. Then I'll happily hang him (yes take that literally).

As for what it would accomplish, bluntly everyday Osama skips about Pakistan is another day Al Q can point and say "See America can't touch us, Allah provides" In a war like this perception means quiet a bit and the perception that Osama can dance about outside of the US and the rest of the West's reach is pretty helpful to them.

Not to mention, he is guilty of killing thousands of Americans in not just the 911 strikes but in strikes that took place over the 90s and across the globe (the Saudi barracks strike, the USS Cole, the African embassy attacks, how many attacks on the towers?) It is the duty and responsiblity to find, capture, try and punish this man. The fact that George W Bush has failed in this duty is part of the reason for my disgust with the man and I will not be light on any government that fails that duty.

As for Pakistan, shielding the man responsible for so much death among our citizens is not the act of an ally or even a responsible nation state. What would you say if the US shielded a Quebeci terrorist who had bombed downtown Ottawa? You would be enraged and don't pretend otherwise.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't go after him, far from it. But it has to be done with the approval of the Pakistani government. Such is the price of having allies. They've said you can't kill him in their territory, they haven't said you can't capture him. I don't really care for their stance on the radicals they have living in their midst but I understand that their President walks a delicate tightrope within his own government.

#7

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:43 pm
by frigidmagi
Pakistan has been about as useful an ally as an anchor around the neck. Excaltly what have they done that counts them an ally besides loudly squawking they're on our side?

For God's Sake Cpl they haven't even bothered to patrol the border with Afghan and keep some control over the Taliban running back and forth.

#8

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:56 pm
by Cpl Kendall
frigidmagi wrote:Pakistan has been about as useful an ally as an anchor around the neck. Excaltly what have they done that counts them an ally besides loudly squawking they're on our side?

For God's Sake Cpl they haven't even bothered to patrol the border with Afghan and keep some control over the Taliban running back and forth.
I'm not denying any of that. And the fools that run your country where stupid to accept his "help" in the first place and return his advances with aid and F-16's. But they've made their bed and now they have to lay in it. I'm all for telling Pakistan what to go do with itself, then you won't need their permission to go after Osama. At least if you do that it won't make the US look like tools again on the world stage.

#9

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:02 pm
by frigidmagi
I'm not denying any of that. And the fools that run your country where stupid to accept his "help" in the first place and return his advances with aid and F-16's. But they've made their bed and now they have to lay in it. I'm all for telling Pakistan what to go do with itself, then you won't need their permission to go after Osama. At least if you do that it won't make the US look like tools again on the world stage.
Don't remind me about the F-16s, that was stupid on both sides. Pakistan needs ground weapons systems for it's needs not shiny aircraft whose only purpose is to piss off India. My main thought is that no matter who gets elected no one will be willing to actually shove Pakistan off the US ally boat. Both sides of the government hate doing that even if the ally in question is dead weight or working against us.

#10

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:20 pm
by Cpl Kendall
I get the impression that when the stack of people that are opposed to your policy is lengthy than you'll take whoever you can get as an "ally" regardless of their utility or ultimate goals.

In other words, their desperate for friends.

#11

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:22 pm
by frigidmagi
I get the impression that when the stack of people that are opposed to your policy is lengthy than you'll take whoever you can get as an "ally" regardless of their utility or ultimate goals.
Not at the time they accepted Pakistan as an ally, it's more an American trait, we seem to dislike losing allies or kicking them out of the club. Even when they're lousy allies.