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#1 Shortage Of Armour Grade Steel Could Delay New Canuck Tanks

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:28 pm
by Cpl Kendall
CTV.CA
Shortage of armour plating could delay tank plan

Updated Thu. Aug. 2 2007 5:03 PM ET

Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- A world-wide shortage of specially-tempered armour could delay next year's deployment to Afghanistan of newly-purchased Dutch Leopard tanks -- unless the Canadian army moves quickly to finalize an upgrade contract, says a defence industry executive.

It could take up to 18 months to get the steel necessary to reinforce the hulls of as many as 40 Leopard 2A4s, says a senior official with Rheinmettall Canada, the Montreal company vying for the roughly $200-million improvement contract.

"Armoured steel today is very difficult to get fast,'' said Jean-Claude Rollier, who oversees the company's land defence arm.

"You might be ready to do the work and have prepared your vehicle, but you won't have the steel you need in order to put additional armour on the vehicle.''

He said it's critical National Defence decide within a couple of months precisely what upgrades it wants to make to the tanks and to have a contract in place, Rollier said in an interview.

Improvements on the slightly-used Dutch tanks are required in order for them to withstand increasingly powerful Taliban roadside bombs. That, and installing some form of air conditioning are considered the key priorities of the upgrade plan.

The army is currently borrowing 20 Leopard 2 A6M tanks from the Germans -- vehicles that have built-in mine protection. It hopes to swap those tanks with the upgraded ones by the end of next year.

The war in Iraq and the widening conflict in Afghanistan have led a number of countries to either purchase new armoured vehicles or buy armoured plating kits to upgrade their existing tanks and troop carriers.

"There is such a demand today world-wide for armoured steel that they're just not able to supply,'' said Rollier.

Canada's planned purchase of 16 CH-47 Chinook helicopters from Chicago, Ill.-based Boeing is facing a similar problem. A scarcity of titanium used in constructing airframes, combined with a glut of orders, created an assembly line backlog that means the new choppers likely won't arrive until 2012.

Last week, a senior official at National Defence said one of the biggest hurdles facing the tank refurbishment project was the fact that there was no one company with the capability to quickly carry out the work. Until a few years ago, the Canadian Forces maintained its own ability to do major overhauls on tanks.

Dan Ross, the assistant deputy minister of materiel, said the department has been focused primarily on getting the borrowed tanks into Afghanistan and would soon turn its attention to the upgrade project.

Rollier's company has been in talks with both the federal government and Krauss-Maffei-Wegmann --the Leopard's German manufacturer.

Rheinmettall would have to subcontract the automotive portion of the upgrade to another company, said Rollier, but he insisted it is fully capable of carrying out the necessary electrical, fire control and air conditioning improvements.

In order to meet a December 2008 deadline, a contract would have to finalized by the end of the summer, he said.

"The longer it takes, the less the likelihood it's going to happen.''

Whether the Conservative government and the Defence Department bureaucracy is prepared to move that quickly is another matter.

Since Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government began it's rearmament program, it has been regularly criticized for sole-sourcing multi-billion dollar contracts.

In April, Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor announced Canada would spend $650 million to modernize the army's tanks. It was later revealed that an additional $650 million will be spent on long-term support contracts.

Rollier said winning the short-term upgrade would put his company in a good position to bid on the 20-year maintenance program.

The 30-year-old Leopard C1s proved useful in battling insurgents, but a dwindling stock of spare parts and a lack of air conditioning in 55-degree heat prompted their replacement.

The Germans, who've been criticized for not allowing their troops to take part in the fighting in southern Afghanistan, have refused to take any money for the tanks Canadians have borrowed.

The purchase of 100 slightly used Leopards from the Dutch -- 40 of which are destined for upgrades and combat operations -- is expected to be finalized soon.
Two things:

1) The Prime Minister better get off his ass and sign the deal so we can get these tanks. That's the hold up from what I understand.

and:

2) The Germans aren't taking any money for the tanks their lending to us until we get the permanent ones from the Dutch. I guess someone up the chain feels guilty that they aren't doing more in Afghanistan.

#2

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:43 pm
by frigidmagi
1) The Prime Minister better get off his ass and sign the deal so we can get these tanks. That's the hold up from what I understand.
Somedays they all look like morons don't they?
2) The Germans aren't taking any money for the tanks their lending to us until we get the permanent ones from the Dutch. I guess someone up the chain feels guilty that they aren't doing more in Afghanistan.
They damn well should feel guilty. I understand NATO's refusal in get involve in Iraq, but this half in, half out in Afghan makes no damn sense. If France, Spain and Germany sent us troops to actually fight we could do a shitload more. Maybe even win the war... Maybe, it would be hard to do so without going into Pakistan.

#3

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:47 pm
by Cynical Cat
frigidmagi wrote:
1) The Prime Minister better get off his ass and sign the deal so we can get these tanks. That's the hold up from what I understand.
Somedays they all look like morons don't they?
Harper's a douche bag. I'm really not surprised he's fucking up one of the few decent decisions he's made.

#4

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:52 pm
by Cpl Kendall
frigidmagi wrote:
Somedays they all look like morons don't they?
This guy has his moments.
They damn well should feel guilty. I understand NATO's refusal in get involve in Iraq, but this half in, half out in Afghan makes no damn sense. If France, Spain and Germany sent us troops to actually fight we could do a shitload more. Maybe even win the war... Maybe, it would be hard to do so without going into Pakistan.
Don't forget the Italians. Though from what I hear they like to throw rocks at landmines over there. So maybe more Italian troops would be a mixed blessing.

#5

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:11 pm
by frigidmagi
Don't forget the Italians. Though from what I hear they like to throw rocks at landmines over there. So maybe more Italian troops would be a mixed blessing.
We had Italians in Iraq. Trust me I didn't forget them.

#6

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:14 pm
by Cpl Kendall
frigidmagi wrote:
We had Italians in Iraq. Trust me I didn't forget them.
Yeah their kinda unforgetable, some of the stereotypes of their WWII performance still hold true today.

#7

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:40 am
by Comrade Tortoise
I am curious.,.. explain this to me

#8

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:45 am
by Cpl Kendall
Comrade Tortoise wrote:I am curious.,.. explain this to me
Well they tend to be timid for one. And remember how I mentioned that they like to throw rocks at landmines? That's not a very smart thing to do, as you could set off the anti-personnell kind off that way. That shows that some of the rank and file aren't to bright. Something that was also noted in WWII.

#9

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:45 pm
by frigidmagi
It's worse then that. They tend to be timid about everyday things that a marine or solder should be able to accept (like say, daily motor and foot patrols) but utterly fearless about brainless things (I swear to God some of those idiots were playing soccer next to a minefield, I don't care if it's the national sport, you do not play it next to a minefield).

I never had to deal with them very closely, something I give prayers of thanksgiving for to this day, but I knew one or two who did and they swear it's enough to make your hair go gray and kill you of a heart attack.