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Today the Senate passed a bill that will force the CIA to use only interrogation techniques that are allowed in the US Army Field Manual. The White House has declared it will veto this. McCain, darling maverick Republican who hates torture, voted against this bill.

But best is the excuse for the veto:

This is done at the CIA, and it is done by professionals who are given hundreds of hours of training, who are — I think General Hayden said an average age of 40; who are being asked to do very hard work in order to protect Americans.

The Army Field Manual is a perfectly appropriate document that is important for young GIs, some so young that they’re not even able to legally get a drink in the states where they’re from.

Dana Perino: Idiot of idiots.

So basically torture is OK as long as it's done by experts.
And I wasn't aware soldiers were allowed to ignore the Field Manual as they got older.

I can't speak for soldiers mind you but being older in the Marines doesn't carry any manual ignoring benefits.

The Army Field Manual is pretty good book. It would be better if written by Marines of course, but it is still a pretty good book given it's sad handicap of being written by soldiers and worse soldiers who were officers at the time.

I wasn't aware soldier referred to Army soldiers exclusively, my bad. In german the term basically means 'anybody in the armed forces'.
Still, as we seem to agree the proffered 'reason' for the veto is idiotic as hell I can't see any harm done.

as a generic term 'soldier' does apply to anyone serving in the armed forces. But there is so much rivalry between the branches in the US that the only ones who actively refer to themselves as soldiers seems to be the Army. The AF refers to ourselves as Airmen, the Marines as Marines, the Navy as Seamen(yeah, we question them too).

as a generic term 'soldier' does apply to anyone serving in the armed forces.

Only if the speaker doesn't actually grasp the differences inherent between the services and their roles.

Someone needs a field manual to the head for this. Seriously, whoever comes after Bush is going to spend his entire time fixing the shit he broke.

And suffering the fallout. Don't forget suffering the fallout.

Which is the entire point.

Conservatism is based, founded upon, and demands failure. They preach government cannot do good. So when they got control, they ran it into the ground as hard as they could. Either they won forever by breaking every rule, or left such a burned out husk someone else would hold the bill.

And the blame.

And in four, or eight, or twelve years, you will hear them. 'We told you it didn't work. Look how it doesn't work.' Nevermind they set it up.

Batman wrote:So basically torture is OK as long as it's done by experts.

Yes torture is apparently OK when it is done by professional torturers who know how to inflict maximum pain and suffering with the least amount of effort....wait what?

Conservatism is based, founded upon, and demands failure.

I'd take it has a favor if you narrow down what exactly you mean by Conservatism there.

frigidmagi wrote:

Conservatism is based, founded upon, and demands failure.

I'd take it has a favor if you narrow down what exactly you mean by Conservatism there.

The political movement embodied by these quotes.

"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."

"Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem."

To cast government in a negative light, the record shows unimpeachably that these people have governed badly; the phrase is 'Self Fufilling Prophecy'. The modern GOP thrives on doing two things: Breaking government programs and general running to fufil their predictions that they will(Hence massive cuts to Medicare when it's being used to prove you can have single-payer healthcare), and make unreasonable promises to their base, intentionally fail, and whine about it(Say, stopping the GAY AGENDA).

Is there another conservatism that still exists?

There is.

I wanted to be sure of who you were talking about.