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There is, in my mind, no doubt that the crippling mental afflictions caused by combat.. Especially the sort experienced in the current war.. Are combat wounds. RAND Corp, the Pentagon's independent research folks, dug into the rate of the all too often underreported injuries of the recent war.

A recently completed survey showed 18.5 percent — or 300,000 people — said they have symptoms of depression or PTSD, the researchers said. Nineteen percent — or 320,000 — suffered head injuries ranging from mild concussions to penetrating head wounds.

This is, simply put, a tenfold increase in the 'official' number of wounded, which is in the 30,000's.

But if mental affliction is a combat injury, is suicide from that a fatality of that war? It would seem to me to be the same as dying from a combat wound after the fact. With an average of 18 suicides a day during the Iraq war, this would make the war's fatalities not in the four thousand mark, but closer to the forty thousand mark. Indee,d in a case against the VA to try and aid the veterans, Plaintiff has cited that 1497 people died in six months...

Waiting in line to be checked out.

40,000 dead, 300,000 injured.. But they don't count, because you'd never see the scar.

18.5% of what exactly is the basis of this study? Combat troops? All troops? All members of the military? if 18.5% is 300,000 men, then the entire study is comprised of 1.62 million people, which is roughly the total number of people from any branch of the military ever deployed into Iraq and Afghanistan. Remember though that only 1 out of every 7 soldiers (on average) is a frontline soldier in a combat position. 300,000 means that every single combat soldier who has ever been to Iraq is suffering from both head wounds and PTSD (assuming of course that combat troops suffer almost all of said casualties). Much as I agree that the official statistics are watered down, I simply do not believe these numbers. 320,000 head traumas? What are they counting as a head trauma exactly? Moreover, these statistics also count things like the Navy and the Air Force, who (I presume) have been taking much fewer casualties, as we have had only a handful of planes lost and no ships sunk. This means that the vast majority of said casualties are occurring to the Marines and the Army only, which in turn makes the proportions even more absurd.

On top of that, we should be a little more clear about that figure of 18 suicides per day. The VA claims that 18 veterans of ALL wars (that's 25 million people) attempt suicide every day (at least according to the articles I read). Most people in general who attempt suicide do not succeed. While the figure of 18 per day IS INDEED higher than the average population, given the average suicide rate in the country, with a body of 25 million people, you would anticipate 12 suicide attempts per day. Given that veterans tend to be older than the average general public, and that the rate of suicide increases with age, you'd probably expect around 13-14. 18 attempts per day IS higher than average, I grant you, and it has gotten higher since we went into Iraq, but it is completely disingenuous to call every one of those a success, and a casualty of the Iraq War.

I am not in favor of the War in Iraq. I believe the government waters down statistics in their favor, and that not enough is being done for the veterans of that brutal conflict. These statistics however are completely ridiculous, and I do not believe them for one instant.

Navy and Air Force personnel have been on the ground and on sites that have been attacked, for a start. Head wounds include the nasty shockwave effects and those half-assed helmets.

The main reason I believe these statistics is that these are the ones the VA spent a great deal of effort covering up. Link

It's hard to buy that they're so incompetent they managed to overdo it when they've been so desperate to underball it.

Yes, I have no doubt Navy and Air Force personnel have been at many sites that were attacked, but consider the proportions here. I do not believe that every combat soldier (or marine or whatnot) ever sent to Iraq came back with PTSD and a head wound. I do not believe that half of them did so. I simply do not believe the numbers because they fly in the face of common sense. I cannot construct a plausible explanation for them in my head other than "someone decided to make up large numbers to bolster their case."

The VA reported 18 ATTEMPTED suicides per year, not successful ones, but the CBS report claims it was actual suicides, ignoring that little fact. As I showed above, that is more than the average, but it is not 40,000 combat fatalities, nor do all of them (nor even MOST of them) correlate with the Iraq war for the base fact that for every Iraq War veteran alive today, there are between 12 and 13 veterans of conflicts and service PRIOR to Iraq. 18 attempted suicides per day includes all of them. Did Vietnam veterans begin shooting themselves because other people were sent to Iraq?

I grant you that this war is all manner of screwed up, and the statistics are buried and undershot, but I believe nobody knows what the hell is actually going on, in or out of the VA. In just the articles you quoted above, I find wildly different figures of suicides per month (none of which I believe). I don't believe these numbers any more than I do the ones the VA announced as official.

Just a couple questions.

those half-assed helmets.

What half ass helmets? My helmet did its job alot better then my Congreemen does his. If it hadn't I wouldn't be typing this.

Other questions as follows:

Is this for all vets or just Iraq War vets?

Any breakdown on the head injuries? I'm wondering because the difference fo effect is huge. For example in November 2001 I suffered a concussion due to repeated blows to the head (the fucker thought it was funny to bounce a rubber boat through choppy swell he hit hard I was in front and went flying back smashing helmet to helmet on the guy behind me and then slamming on the metal bottom of the boat, my memory for the next two days is spotty that's the only long term effect versus that with a guy who caught a motor shell with his skull and you see why I am asking).

frigidmagi wrote:Just a couple questions.

those half-assed helmets.

What half ass helmets? My helmet did its job alot better then my Congreemen does his. If it hadn't I wouldn't be typing this.

There was alot of talk of head injuries caused by insufficient padding in helmets when shockwaves hit. Primarily talking about Army, though, so it could be different.

Other questions as follows:

Is this for all vets or just Iraq War vets?

Dunno. The VA, having covered both sets of numbres up, is reluctant to be specific.

Any breakdown on the head injuries? I'm wondering because the difference fo effect is huge. For example in November 2001 I suffered a concussion due to repeated blows to the head (the fucker thought it was funny to bounce a rubber boat through choppy swell he hit hard I was in front and went flying back smashing helmet to helmet on the guy behind me and then slamming on the metal bottom of the boat, my memory for the next two days is spotty that's the only long term effect versus that with a guy who caught a motor shell with his skull and you see why I am asking).

I honestly don't know. This is hampered by the ongoing attempts by the VA to cover this shit up.

There was alot of talk of head injuries caused by insufficient padding in helmets when shockwaves hit. Primarily talking about Army, though, so it could be different

That's cause jackasses keep ripping out the padding. "Wah Cpl the padding makes me all warm and sweaty" I shit you not.