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Pentecostalism is one of the fastest growing branches of Christianity in the world, and the Assemblies of God is one of the largest Pentecostal denominations in the country, claiming 1.6 million members. Pentecostals are generally characterized by a strict adherence to moral codes--no tobacco, no alcohol, no social dancing, no sex outside of marriage--and by their belief that the Holy Spirit bestows upon some the gift of "speaking in tongues," a reference to Acts 2: "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues." A spokeswoman for the McCain-Palin campaign has said that Palin attends many churches and does not consider herself to be Pentecostal.

This past Sunday, worship at the Assembly of God fellowship in Wasilla was as euphoric as the Bible Church was staid. The congregation of about 100 was on its feet, shouting and clapping. Some members on another Sunday might murmur and keen in low voices, the sound of speaking in tongues. But the purpose of the sermon this Sunday was to prepare the church for the media onslaught that was sure to follow. "Because Jesus Christ died on the cross," the senior pastor, Ed Kalnins, told the crowd, "we can worship in public. How many people are thanking God for what's happening to Governor Sarah?"

Kalnins guessed that about half of the people in his church have the gift of tongues. He has it himself, he says, though he rarely demonstrates it. "It's not meant to be shown off," he said. "It's not like flexing muscles. I received the gift in college, and it transformed my life." It's not something like from the "remote parts of the jungle," he adds: It's a decision.

And if the staff of Wasilla Bible Church shies from taking political stands, Kalnins does not. Homosexuality, he says, is a choice. He would not vote for a pro-choice candidate. When asked about the evolution-creationism debate, Kalnins is clear: "You present the facts of creation versus evolution and the truth will come out," he says. What does Palin think? "This is something inside every human heart of a believer," he answers. When Palin worships in Juneau, she attends an Assembly of God church there. Sarah Palin may not call herself a Pentecostal, but she has deep and long experience in Pentecostal churches. And as the race wears on, this biographical fact will likely become another religious Rorschach test--pleasing to some, discomfiting to others.

Clarification: Some digging revealed Palin's churches are not Assembly Of God, technically. They were declared heretics in 1949. The Third Wave.

I'll let Pentacostals cover that looniness.

Ok... I would like to point out one little thing.

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Acts 2:5-8 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together and were confounde, because that every man hard them speak in his own language.
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Gallieans?
And how hear we every man in out own tongue, wherein we were born?"

Now. My one big problem with Speaking in Tongues is the fact that in the Bible, IT WAS ACTUAL LANGUAGE THAT COULD BE RECOGNIZED BY NATIVE SPEAKERS.

It was not "blahblahbla alalala". It was not "Angel Tongue". It is not something that you babble and then the Preacher or a Friend translate for you, when you ALL SPEAK THE SAME DAMN LANGUAGE. It was TONGUES as in LANGUAGE so Foreigners could UNDERSTAND YOU.

Speaking in tongues when you've never travelled more than 20miles from home and have never met anyone who doesn't speak your language? When no one who speaks another language would come within 100 miles of your church?

BLASPHEMY!

**FUMES** No wonder hearing people like that makes me ill.

Let's not make this a discussion better suited for R&P.

As for the speaking in tongues bit it is more common than you would think among various Pentalcostal or Charmastic churches and in it's "traditional" (I put quotes because the movements are at best only a 100 years old or so) appearances has more to do with religious trance or religious ecstasy which was common during the Azusa Street Revival in L.A. then with Peter's street preaching episode.

Before anyone starts throwing rocks religious ecstasy is pretty damn common in the world, experienced by pretty much worshipers of every religion and even by atheists although they'll experience it in connection with a different closely belief or experience the release in a separate manner.

3rd Wave does not consider itself Pentecostal, it instead considers itself a "nondenominational community" and has Nitram has noted the churches in question were tossed out for Heresy by the General Assembly of the Assemblies of God church in 1949. For those of you who don't know, the General Assembly is the central body of the AoG and is very, very weak. The vast majorities of the power lays in the local church body and those local bodies vary insanely for example I happen to be product of one of those local bodies, my father was and now again is a pastor for the AoG. My father's pastorship was and is entirely decided between him and the local church goers, The General Assembly had no say and wasn't even asked for an opinion. Which should give you an idea of how much power the General Assembly has in the day to day life of a church.

For something like what happened requires a near complete agreement on the national level (there is no real international decision making process thus the national churches of the body are widely distinct and different from each other). This is akin to getting a herd of cats together and not only moving in the same direction, but at the same speed and almost in a single file line.

A good number of you have express dislike, concern and even outright hatred of fundamentalist, evangelicals and various other groups within Christianity, ironically the majority of the resistance to the 3rd wave comes from those groups who view the 3rd wave has nonbibical (which is basically saying they're making shit up) and has witchcraft. The 3rd wave has for example send out groups to "confront territorial demons preventing the spread of Christianity in those areas" or "to confront the Queen of Heaven in prayer" (the Queen of Heaven being a demon of Jack Chick's imagination, part of his overall claim that Catholics worship Mary as a god and are actually disguised Pagans) and other such... oddities.

Somehas even gone so far has to decry the 3rd wave as a cult parading as a Christian church.

Now let's try to concentrate on discussing the political implications of someone within this movement becoming Vice President and very possibly President. Otherwise I'll have to move the topic.

Wow, more and more she resembles the ignorant hicks from my hometown, which, as Magi as pointed out, don't know a damn thing about their own religion (among other things...in fact, among most other things). This is Not A Good Thing. They go along with whatever they're told and never question a bit of it, even fighting to maintain their sheer ignorance of facts. Pop religion, all the latest fads and coolest new scapegoats and trendy church buzzwords!

Ugh, I want to make a longer, more reasoned post here, but I'm having a hard time fighting off my feelings of revulsion. I'll try to come back to this later.

I'd just like to mention that Neal Stephenson postulated that Pentecostal "speaking in tongues" was actually a mind-controlling mental virus spread by evil men-gods from Ancient Sumer who wished to transform humanity into mindless slaves.

Sounds right up Palin's alley

General Havoc wrote:I'd just like to mention that Neal Stephenson postulated that Pentecostal "speaking in tongues" was actually a mind-controlling mental virus spread by evil men-gods from Ancient Sumer who wished to transform humanity into mindless slaves.

Sounds right up Palin's alley

Yes, Snow Crash was a great book. And yeah, you're definately right about how it comes across in reference to Palin. Where's Hiro Protagonist and YT when you need 'em

Fuck that, where's Uncle Enzo to just discretely "eliminate" Palin with copious assistance from one of Mr. Lee's rat-things?

General Havoc wrote:Fuck that, where's Uncle Enzo to just discretely "eliminate" Palin with copious assistance from one of Mr. Lee's rat-things?

But Hollywood couldn't turn that into a 2 hour made for TV movie... and damnit I want my Snow Crash movie.

Back on topic...