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#1 St. Petersburg being raped by a 400-meter penis

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:51 pm
by fgalkin
Protest over St Petersburg tower

About 3,000 people have rallied in St Petersburg against plans to build a huge skyscraper in Russia's former imperial capital.

Demonstrators voiced anger at the city council's decision to approve construction of the 400m (1,312 ft) Okhta Centre for the gas giant Gazprom.

They said the tower would spoil the city's historic skyline.

The UN cultural body, Unesco, has said building the tower could endanger the city's status as a world heritage site.

On Saturday, demonstrators chanted "No to the tower!" and "History is more important than money!" at the rally in central St Petersburg.

"This action will destroy my city, the city where I grew up, and the city that I want to save for my grandchildren," Galina Safronova, aged 55, was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

Russia's culture ministry is also objecting to the building of the needle-like glass tower.

The ministry has asked prosecutors to examine whether last month's official approval of the project violates Russia's federal law.

The skyscraper has been designed by British firm RMJM and would cost some $2.4bn (£1.5bn) to build.
Linky

This is what the place where the tower will be built looks like now:

Image

This
Image
Will be here:
Image

(Across the river from this)

It will be seen overhead from pretty much everywhere in the city.

This skyscraper is an absolute fucking DISASTER. The city is an architectural masterpiece rivalling the capitals of Europe in appearance. The Gazprom Cock would absolutely destroy the appearance of the historic center. You can look at the historical center photos here to see why.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

#2

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:43 pm
by General Havoc
Oy...

This is gonna be worse than the Tour Montmartre, if those pictures are any indication.

Is there any hope/potential that this thing will be scuppered? Or is it pretty much a done deal at this point? I'm unfamiliar with the power afforded to Russia's culture ministry.

#3

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:39 pm
by Stofsk
It's such an ugly building too. It's not just that a huge building would look out of place, it's also that it just plane damn looks stupid as well.

#4

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:26 pm
by The Minx
I's not that ugly IMHO, it's got an interesting futuristic look. But it absolutely does not belong at that site.

Not the first time architects/engineers/planners show no respect for the overall style of the city they are designing buildings for. :/

#5

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:00 pm
by Hotfoot
For the record, how long are we going to keep pretty cities around? With global population on the rise, I'm surprised we don't have more cities like New York and Tokyo, especially in Europe, given that the place has about a hundred thousand more people than the United States, and less overall land mass.

#6

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:05 am
by The Minx
You can keep pretty districts in cities and build skyscrapers in other areas of said cities.

PS: I think you meant to say 100 million more people. :wink:

#7

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:54 am
by Hotfoot
The Minx wrote:You can keep pretty districts in cities and build skyscrapers in other areas of said cities.

PS: I think you meant to say 100 million more people. :wink:
Yes, I did.

But eventually, I do think that cities will have to give way to need on this. Pretty cities look nice, but they don't do much for addressing the needs of the people living there.

#8

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:08 am
by The Minx
Actually, according to this, St. Petersburg is already the 26th most densely populated city in the world, and more densely populated than Singapore. You don't need skyscrapers for efficient use of surface area, it seems.

#9

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:45 pm
by fgalkin
Hotfoot wrote:
But eventually, I do think that cities will have to give way to need on this. Pretty cities look nice, but they don't do much for addressing the needs of the people living there.
American cities are absolutely hideous examples of urban planning, and to use them as an example for anything is idiotic. US cities are horribly inefficient- you have a small business center full of high-rises and miles upon miles of single-family homes that wouldn't be out of place in a rural area. This creates huge traffic problems, is detrimental to the development of mass transit, and puts a strain on the city's finances, as they have to take care of a huge, but sparsely populated area.

In St. Petersburg, for example, the historic center of the city is a UNESCO World Heritage Site (until that monstrocity goes up, anyway), but most of the population lives in 9, 12, or 16 story apartment complexes outside the historic center. In effect, the situation is reversed- the historic center, now largely dedicated to stores and businesses (there is a problem in the city now how various companies, with the support of the city government, are illegally buying up residential buildings in the center of the city and converting them to offices, all but kicking the residents out on the street) is low-rise, but the residential areas are densely packed.

Without traffic (which is unfortunately a problem in St. Petersburg as the Soviet infrastructure can't cope with private car ownership, but that it's a separate issue) it is possible to drive from one end to the city to the other in about 40 minutes- it has a population of 4.6 million packed into about 230 square miles, with room to spare- I used to live across the street from a 300 hectare wooded park/nature preserve, a good 2 hours walk across, which was inside the city limits. By contrast, the congested, polluted mess that is Los Angeles, with about a million less people, has an area twice the size, none of it empty space that can be built over in a pinch.

I'd say European cities are coping just fine.
Is there any hope/potential that this thing will be scuppered? Or is it pretty much a done deal at this point? I'm unfamiliar with the power afforded to Russia's culture ministry.
You are assuming that the Russian government operates the way it says it operates. The culture ministry has no say, as it has no money. Gazprom has money, but so do their opponents. Whoever wins the money war, will determine if it goes up or not.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

#10

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:48 pm
by General Havoc
American cities are absolutely hideous examples of urban planning, and to use them as an example for anything is idiotic.
That might be the most absurd thing I've heard all week. And considering the week I've had, that's saying quite a bit. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me that because Los Angeles is a polluted pit, that the whole of America is comprised of crappy cities? Shall we discuss the wonder of traffic control that is Rome? Or London? Shall we discuss the pristine pollution-free metropolis that is Athens? Or the compact, easily delineated town that is Hamburg? Or Berlin? Or Essen?
By contrast, the congested, polluted mess that is Los Angeles, with about a million less people, has an area twice the size, none of it empty space that can be built over in a pinch.
I'm sorry, have you been to Los Angeles? I'm not about to defend it as an example of what a city should be, but Los Angeles has a LOT of empty space that can be built over in a pinch. Not the majority, certainly, but quite a bit nonetheless, given the size of the city. There are several state parks and a national forest within Los Angeles itself (more, depending on how you define LA's boundaries). And for your information, the "congested, polluted mess" that is Los Angeles is no more congested and considerably less poluted than a dozen different European cities I could mention, from Leeds to Athens to Warsaw to Dusseldorf to Barcelona.

Besides, citing Los Angeles as your example of why American cities suck is like citing the Faeroe Islands as an example of "Typical European climate". There are few cities in America as distinct from all of the others as Los Angeles. For one thing, it's the only American city I am aware of that doesn't have a core, heavily-urbanized, "downtown" that the city radiates around. Oh there is a downtown in Los Angeles, but it's practically an afterthought. Despite being eight times the size of San Francisco, Los Angeles has a downtown a third as large. There's a lot of reasons for this decentralization, but the point is that Los Angeles is highly atypical (as, by the way, is St. Petersburg). Compare Los Angeles to New York. Compare it to Chicago, to Seattle, to San Francisco. Go to Manhattan and tell me about the "Small business center" and the "miles of single-family homes". Sure, American cities tend to sprawl out like hell, but then so do most large European ones. Paris for instance, and London, and Berlin, and Rome are all massive urban sprawls as large as anything you'll see over here. I'm not gonna say there's no trends in terms of what you tend to find on either side of the pond, but you took (by all accounts) the most beautiful city in Russia, and compared it with (debatably) the ugliest one in America. Would you consider it fair if I reversed that, and contrasted San Francisco with Dzerzhinsk? Or even with Moscow?

Plus, recall if you will the unique circumstances that led to St. Petersburg. The city was literally planned out by one man (Peter the Great), who fought a war and drained a massive swamp so as to build a modern (for the time) city, from scratch. Don't get me wrong, he did a great job, as have those who oversaw the city in the centuries thereafter, but it's hardly the same thing as how most cities are brought about. I love London, for instance, but five minutes of walking around the City of London will convince you (or at least convinced me) that there was no system of thought involved in its creation. Most European cities grew up organically into what they are today over the course of thousands of years, interspersed in many cases with the occasional "reset button" of being burnt to the ground by Great Fires or rampaging hordes of Mongols/Magyars/Huns/Vikings/Englishmen/Germans/Mercenaries/Greeks/Persians/Arabs/Crusaders/Bombers/Nazis/Scythians/Bandits. The youngest European city is still hundreds of years older than the oldest American one. You can argue that the end result is better or worse, but in all but a handful of cases, the end result has nothing whatsoever to do with urban planning of any sort, unless you are suggesting that the US should adopt Paris' policy (to give an example) of forbidding non-white people from living inside city limits (civic policy in Paris until the 1980s).

Look, I love most of Europe. Three of my five favorite cities in the world are in Europe. And likewise, there's plenty of American cities I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole: Detroit, Houston, Baltimore, and yes, Los Angeles. But it's absurd to take one bad US city, contrast it with one good European one, and thus claim that Europeans are gods of urban planning, when for the majority of the cities in Europe had no urban planning in the form we recognize it today for the vast majority of their existences. Most European cities grew up out of tightly-packed walled fortress-cities, semi-perpetually being besieged by some damned army or other. This gave them a certain flavor not shared by cities that did not have to be constructed with such things in mind, but hardly makes them the result of gifted European urban planning, as contrasted with idiotic American. By that logic, the best thing to do to improve Los Angeles on European "planning styles", would be to have the Mexicans periodically invade and burn it to the ground.

Although having said that, I have to admit that might not be such a bad idea after all...

#11

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:01 am
by LadyTevar
I think the only American city to be planned out as strictly as St. Petersburg was Washington DC

#12

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:01 pm
by General Havoc
LadyTevar wrote:I think the only American city to be planned out as strictly as St. Petersburg was Washington DC
I have to admit though, by all of the accounts I've heard, Washington is a pit by comparison to St. Petersburg. I've never been to either city, but every single person I know who's ever been there said it was on the short list of the most beautiful places around. Letting it get defaced by something like this would be a travesty.