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#1 U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:41 am
by Stofsk
Chris Rodda wrote:For the past several years, two U.S. Army posts in Virginia, Fort Eustis and Fort Lee, have been putting on a series of what are called Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concerts. As I've written in a number of other posts, "spiritual fitness" is just the military's new term for promoting religion, particularly evangelical Christianity. And this concert series is no different.
On May 13, 2010, about eighty soldiers, stationed at Fort Eustis while attending a training course, were punished for opting out of attending one of these Christian concerts. The headliner at this concert was a Christian rock band called BarlowGirl, a band that describes itself as taking "an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God."
Any doubt that this was an evangelical Christian event was cleared up by the Army post's newspaper, the Fort Eustis Wheel, which ran an article after the concert that began:
"Following the Apostle Paul's message to the Ephesians in the Bible, Christian rock music's edgy, all-girl band BarlowGirl brought the armor of God to the warriors and families of Fort Eustis during another installment of the Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert Series May 13 at Jacobs Theater."
The father of the three Barlow sisters who make up the band was also quoted in the article, saying, "We really believe that to be a Christian in today's world, you have to be a warrior, and we feel very blessed and privileged that God has given us the tool to deliver His message and arm His army."
A few days later, some of the soldiers punished for choosing not to attend this concert contacted the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF). The following is from the account sent by one of those soldiers to MRFF, detailing what transpired that night.
"The week prior to the event the [unit name and NCO's name withheld] informed us of a Christian rock event that was about to take place on Thursday the 13th.
"On Thursday 13th at 1730 we were informed that instead of being dismissed for the day, the entire company (about 250 soldiers) would march as a whole to the event. Not only that, but to make sure that everyone is present we were prohibited from going back to the barracks (to eliminate the off chance that some might 'hide' in their rooms and not come back down).
"We were marched as a whole to chow and were instructed to reform outside the dining facility. A number of soldiers were disappointed and restless. Several of us were of different faith or belief. A couple were particularly offended (being of Muslim faith) and started considering to disobey the order.
"From the dining facility we were marched back to the company area. There was a rumor circulating that we may be given a choice later on to fall out or attend. Though it was only a rumor it was also a small hope enough to allow us to follow along a little longer before choosing to become disobedient. We were marched back to the company area. To our dismay there was still no sign of as having a choice.
"We started marching to the theater. At that point two Muslim soldiers fell out of formation on their own. Student leadership tried to convince them to fall back in and that a choice will be presented to us once we reach the theater.
"At the theater we were instructed to split in two groups; those that want to attend versus those that don't. At that point what crossed my mind is the fact that being given an option so late in the game implies that the leadership is attempting to make a point about its intention. The 'body language' was suggesting that 'we marched you here as a group to give you a clue that we really want you to attend (we tilt the table and expect you to roll in our direction), now we give you the choice to either satisfy us or disappoint us.' A number of soldiers seemed to notice these clues and sullenly volunteered for the concert in fear of possible consequences.
"Those of us that chose not to attend (about 80, or a little less that half) were marched back to the company area. At that point the NCO issued us a punishment. We were to be on lock-down in the company (not released from duty), could not go anywhere on post (no PX, no library, etc). We were to go to strictly to the barracks and contact maintenance. If we were caught sitting in our rooms, in our beds, or having/handling electronics (cell phones, laptops, games) and doing anything other than maintenance, we would further have our weekend passes revoked and continue barracks maintenance for the entirety of the weekend. At that point the implied message was clear in my mind 'we gave you a choice to either satisfy us or disappoint us. Since you chose to disappoint us you will now have your freedoms suspended and contact chores while the rest of your buddies are enjoying a concert.'
"At that evening, nine of us chose to pursue an EO complaint. I was surprised to find out that a couple of the most offended soldiers were actually Christian themselves (Catholic). One of them was grown as a child in Cuba and this incident enraged him particularly as it brought memories of oppression."
The account of another soldier who did not attend the concert, which relates the same sequence of events and punishment that occurred, also adds that some of the soldiers who did decide to attend only did so due to pressure from their superiors and fear of repercussions.
"At the theater is the first time our options were presented to us. And they were presented to us in a way that seemed harmless, we could either go to the show, or go to the barracks. But at that point, I felt pressured. As a person, I know that I can't be pressured into anything, I'm much stronger than that. But I also know that a lot of people aren't that strong, and that pressure was present. I could hear people saying, 'I don't know about going back to the barracks, that sounds suspicious, I'm going to go ahead and go to the show' and many things that sounded a lot like that. Now, like I said, I don't get pressured into things, but I also don't think that anybody should have to feel that kind of pressure. Making somebody feel that pressure is a violation of human rights, we are allowed to think what we want about religion and not have to feel pressured into doing things, and at that moment there was definitely pressure to go to that concert simply because people don't want to have their free time taken away."
The Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert Series was the brainchild of Maj. Gen. James E. Chambers, who, according to an article on the Army.mil website, "was reborn as a Christian" at the age of sixteen. According to the article, Chambers held the first concert at Fort Lee within a month of becoming the commanding general of the Combined Arms Support Command and Fort Lee in June 2008. But he had already started the series at Fort Eustis, as the previous commanding general there. The concerts have continued at Fort Eustis under the new commanding general, as well as spreading to Fort Lee under Maj. Gen. Chambers. The concerts are also promoted to the airmen on Langley Air Force Base, which is now part of Joint Base Langley-Eustis.
In the Army.mil article, Maj. Gen. Chambers was quoted as saying, "The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion. It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds." But there has been no "mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds" at these concerts. Every one of them has had evangelical Christian performers, who typically not only perform their music but give their Christian testimony and read from the Bible in between songs.
Another problem with these concerts, besides the issues like soldiers being punished for choosing not to attend them, is that they are run by the commanders, and not the chaplains' offices. It is absolutely permissible for a chaplain's office to put on a Christian concert. It is not permissible for the command to put on a Christian concert, or any other religious event. Having a religious concert series that is actually called and promoted as a Commanding General's Concert Series is completely over the top.
And then there's the cost. These concerts aren't just small events with local Christian bands. We're talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.
The cost of these concerts led MRFF's research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other "spiritual fitness" events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide "spiritual fitness" services, was for $3.5 million.
MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.
Do the recently announced plans of Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to trim defense spending include any trimming of the military's outrageous spending on the promoting of religion and evangelizing of our troops? This alone could save the DoD untold millions every year, and go a long way towards upholding our Constitution at the same time.
#2
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:42 am
by frigidmagi
I'd like more information honestly, because this is fairly illegal. Not to mention out of character, most officers I knew didn't have any strong faith or completely refused to discuss religion or politics anywhere enlisted might hear them. Some generals have made open announcements of faith but usually in a church or during a church activity.
I will note that religious faith was pretty strong in the NCO ranks and well represented in the enlisted ranks, but it ran a spectrum of Christians of all stripes, Pagans, Hindus, etc. And frankly a religious concert wouldn't be popular among Marines or Soldiers.
Basically given what I know, I have to question whether this article is telling us everything or if some mistakes were made.
#3
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:05 am
by B4UTRUST
Both of those bases are in my neck of the woods. I'll see if I can dig up anything in the local papers
#4
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:59 am
by Stofsk
I don't know how accurate it is. I saw it posted on SDN so I thought I'd cross-post it here. Hopefully B4 can glean some local info.
#5
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:46 pm
by frigidmagi
Yeaahhhh... I went to the site you linked to Chris. They're a blog where any member can post a story... That means we got to double check.
Also I did some asking around. Inspector General boys are these days very excited about such behavior and have orders take such reports seriously. The actual law enforcement agencies also have orders to slam down hard. Any CO would be risking his freedom, his career, and any future positions or benefits... For a concert.
Also note the writer doesn't have any clue how the military funds such activities. They're funded from profits from the PX, so no, slashing those wouldn't save us shit. I wouldn't be against slashing such concerts, speaking as a practicing Christian though... These bands usually suck hardcore. I mean geeze, I like Jesus to guys, but I know faith doesn't grant me musical talent.
#6
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:37 pm
by B4UTRUST
Well I've hit both the web and local sources and made a few calls to the local papers and news groups trying to find any sort of proof of any of these allegations.
Oddly though, I can't find a copy of this article at the MRFF website, of which Chris Rodda is a member. No mention of it in any local papers around here. Nothing on the radio or local news. Plenty on Gates shutting down JIFCOM here in Hampton Roads, but nothing on this. Nothing from Eustis or Lee on their sites even from their PR and no mention of it on any of the local forums, community groups or military groups that I'm a member of. I found a thread about it one military board but it's all the same shock and outrage that every other site has in its commentary, no actual names or units or anything. I would think someone, somewhere would have made a comment about this sooner than 3 months after the incident. Plus there's a few things in the article that don't strike me as right, but I wasn't Army so it may have been different. Frigid, feel free to chime in here because I'm going off AF ways here.
An NCO handing out 'punishment?' The way this article is written it's implying that they were being punished with extra duty which is an article 15 punishment, not something an NCO is suppose to be handing out like this. I say it like this because the first 'email' in the article says that they were being punished and not being released from duty. This implies extra duty on top of their normal duty day.
But really, I can't find one name or unit associated with this at the actual base this 'happened' at. So if someone else comes across something I'm more than willing to listen and see what's really happening here, but from the local standpoint I aint found shit...
#7
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:25 pm
by General Havoc
Speaking as a layman and a civie then, I'm confident in calling this one an urban legend.
#8
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:31 pm
by frigidmagi
Stofsk, I'm willing to bet most of the posters of SDN won't believe B4's report but as a favor to me, please share it with that board.
#9
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:40 pm
by B4UTRUST
Basically, I'm looking at it from this angle: For 3 months 80+ young soldiers, their friends and their families have all somehow magically stayed silent about this outrage? It just doesn't make sense. For something like that IG would be brought in, or JAG or someone. Someone in that 80-member group of soldiers would have bitched to a friend, GF, spouse, family member, etc, SOMEONE. I mean I can't speak for all of these people, but if I wrote or called my parents with something like that, my entire family would have heard of it in two day's time and someone in my family would have said something about it to a dozen other people, neighbors, friends, co-workers, etc or have it written on a blog, or on facebook, or somewhere. But there's seemingly nothing. It's like Boom! All of a sudden we have a story with no names, no units, just a base listed and a reference to an article about a born again general who wants to spread the message of God's tough love to his troops.
You've got people who were Muslim, you've got people who were Christian and practicing and a bunch who were Christian and didn't do services or anything and some Atheists and Agnostics thrown in too. Maybe a few Jews. Who knows, there could be a Wiccan, Pagan, Hindu or Buddhist in the mix. But you've probably got at least 2 or 3 general religions and some non-religions represented in this 80-man group of soldiers, not counting those who went but only because they felt they were forced into it and didn't really want to go. You've got these people, and not one of them says anything to anyone? Hell, I'll admit that most anti-religious Atheists I know would have been screaming at the top of their lungs on a blog or social networking site or board somewhere about this grave injustice. There would have been someone writing a 140 character tweef about this shit.
So either this is a damned-fine coverup and removal of all evidence that somehow left these damning emails and Chris Rodda alive to reveal it all or this isn't the whole story or a real one. And most people here will testify that I'm a paranoid conspiratorial nutjob. And this just doesn't add up, even to me.
#10
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:11 pm
by Something Awesome
B4UTRUST wrote:Oddly though, I can't find a copy of this article at the MRFF website, of which Chris Rodda is a member.
Maybe they hadn't posted it yet, because it looks like they mention it and link to an AP article:
http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org ... n-concert/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 658D07.DTL
#11
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:32 pm
by B4UTRUST
Huh, you may be right, SA. That wasn't there earlier when I was searching for it. And there are now added details in this new linked article actually giving names and identities which does add some to the validity of the story. As I said earlier, if someone had something to add to it or more evidence I'd love to hear it and here it is.
However, again, nothing local was ever reported and I had figured that something like this would have leaked into the local press at some point. Hell, I started talking to people I knew stationed around here on the other bases and they hadn't heard a thing about it, which lead me to think that something was amiss here. I would have thought that one of the dozen or so other bases around here would have picked up something on it. But no. I've talked to people in Army Navy AF and Coast Guard and heard nothing on it. *shrugs*
I'm willing to say I'm wrong on this one if this pans out, if for no other reason than none of these other articles were popping up on any searches for this, making my initial assessment of the story based on insufficient data.
#12
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:10 pm
by frigidmagi
Finally got the link to work. For a bit there, Chrome would claim to me that it couldn't get the web site up. I blame Vista.
Let me quote it:
The Army said Friday it was investigating a claim that dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's concert at a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and told to clean them up.
Fort Eustis spokesman Rick Haverinen told The Associated Press he couldn't comment on the specifics of the investigation. At the Pentagon, Army spokesman Col. Thomas Collins said the military shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.
"If something like that were to have happened, it would be contrary to Army policy," Collins said.
Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to attend the May concert while stationed at the Newport News base, home of the Army's Transportation Corps.
"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said in a phone interview from Phoenix, where he is stationed with the National Guard. "That's not what I signed up for."
Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concerts."
Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they could either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not to attend, he said.
"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked down," Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by soldiers who were punished for not attending or offended by the religious theme of the event.
The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed events are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the soldiers for stepping forward.
"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny our job is to fight it," he said.
Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their cell phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.
About 20 of the men, including several Muslims, refused to attend the concert based on their religious beliefs, he said.
Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for those kind of events that bring soldiers together."
While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers who refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to proselytize, he said.
"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith said.
So the heavies of this piece are a Staff Sgt who told them they had to stay in the barricks and a Captain who likely said something like "I want to support this sanctioned event and bring the troops together, make sure a bunch of them attend."
That's a difficult order to follow as your average troop DOES NOT LIKE THE OFFICIAL EVENTS! Religion has little to do with that. They're usually very family friendly (does that sound like entertainment that will grip a bunch of males ages 18 to 25?), overly structured (gee just like my normal life during enlistment, just what I want in my entertainment) and well this is important, there are little to no single hot girls around. It could be as Christian as a Catholic Easter Mass, if you brought in say 4 or 5 bus loads of single college girls, I promise even the athiest Marines (all 5 of them) would be interested.
The Staff Sgt if this did happen, did over step his bounds. Course at the moment it's still under investigations. I would like to see the end results though.
Also a single company? Wide spread evil conspiracy this does not make. A single division is little over 10,000 men just to give you something to think about.
#13
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:33 pm
by B4UTRUST
Frigid is absolutely correct in this. Being voluntold for this type of thing to go play rent-a-crowd is something that every enlistee ends up having to do and it sucks. Always. Give them the option to not have to go? They're gone.
And the big about the single hot girls? Yeah, this is very true. It's also very true that save for desert queens, very few military chicks look good in a uniform. Though there are those exceptions that for some reason BDUs look good on. Not many, but a few. And Fort Eustis is Army Transportation. Every time I've been on the base in any of the buildings working it's mostly guys. To borrow the phrase - a sausage fest.
So forced attendance to a Christian 'rock' all-female band surrounded by families, kiddies, and a bunch of other guys forced to endure this. Sounds like a hell of a great time to me.. Hell, even if I had known I'd have to be doing maintenance around the barracks if I didn't attend, I think I might have still volunteered to do the maintenance.
God, now I'm having flashbacks to all the shitty change of command ceremonies, commanders calls, mandatory safety briefings, etc. The suicide prevention briefing alone was bad enough to make you want to blow your brains out. Damn do I not miss those at all...*twitch* Organized clusterfucks...
#14
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:59 pm
by frigidmagi
Oh God, Change of Command Ceremonies.... Hours of standing around listening to some old guy I never saw before ramble on for an hour and then some new old guy I'll never see ramble for another hour...
Did I mention I'm standing at attention for most of it? In the sun? Oh and the fucking inspections! Barracks inspection, kit inspection, weapon inspection, uniform inspection, FUCKING HELL!
If anyone here become an officer, take this piece of wisdom with you. If you become a new CO, your unit automatically hates you because you put them through a round of inspection hell. Most military men hate inspections. It's wasted effort, deployment inspections are a bit different since you're checking the very gear your life depends on though.
#15
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:58 am
by Stofsk
i linked the article over on SDN. the discussion there got derailed pretty quick.
#16
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:30 am
by B4UTRUST
Stofsk, that's whats been happening on almost every site that's carried the article that does commentary that I've seen. Even military.com's forum piece on it was derailing when I was looking at it.
Frigid, what's the saying? No combat ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection ready unit has ever passed combat?
#17
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:20 am
by Stofsk
I should clarify, I linked another article over on SDN. Someone else actually started the thread there, I cross posted it here, but there was an article here that wasn't over there.
But it doesn't matter, because the discussion there turned to the usual bullshit. I found this story pretty interesting, but I took it at face value.
#18
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:35 am
by B4UTRUST
It's going to be real interesting seeing what happens to the captain behind this. This sort of thing is being frowned up and gone after hard anymore. Especially anything that can be seen as a misuse of the taxpayer dollars while Gates is trying to trim the fat.
There is a chance it might even lead to a courts martial, since it's only a captain.