LibriumArcana.Games

Okay. I've been working on playtesting a paladin rebuild lately, and it got me thinking about that other half-caster, the ranger. Now, the ranger's alright for what it does, but although the 3.5 revision got the skills right, the spellcasting is still a joke, the animal companion even more so, and the combat styles are too restrictive.

I went looking around for a ranger rebuild that addressed these issues, but didn't really find one that didn't rub me the wrong way in some other fashion, so I've started to make my own. It follows. I'm looking for suggestions, so feel free to speak up. Without further ado, the beginnings of my rebuilt ranger:

Version: 0.11

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The ranger’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the ranger.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields).

Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

The ranger may also make Knowledge checks against creatures of his favored enemy types as though he were trained in the relevant Knowledge skill. The ranger gains a bonus on this check equal to his ranger level plus his Intelligence modifier plus his favored enemy bonus against that creature; thus, a 5th level ranger with 13 INT and favored enemies of dragons (+4) and evil outsiders (+2) may make Knowledge checks against dragons with a bonus of +10 and evil outsiders with a bonus of +8. This does not count as a Knowledge skill for other purposes; while the above ranger could make checks to know about dragons as if he had Knowledge (arcana), he could not use this ability to make Knowledge checks about other subjects falling under that Knowledge skill, nor could he use the bonus to qualify for feats or abilities that have ranks in a Knowledge skill as a prerequisite. If the ranger has a Knowledge skill that covers one of his favored enemies, the bonuses do not stack; the ranger uses either the Knowledge skill or his favored enemy knowledge bonus, whichever is higher.

At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.

If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. Creatures with templates granting the outsider type count as the base creature’s type for the purpose of favored enemy, and not as outsiders (unless the base creature is also an outsider).

The ranger may alternately select the favored terrain variant found on page 65 of Unearthed Arcana and in the SRD found at http://d20srd.org



Track: A ranger gains Track as a bonus feat.

Wild Empathy (Ex): A ranger can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. The ranger rolls 1d20 and adds his ranger level and his Charisma bonus to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, the ranger and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.
The ranger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one feat from the following list: Dodge, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Shield Specialization, or Two-Weapon Fighting. The ranger is treated as having the chosen feat for all purposes, though he need not meet the prerequisites.

The benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Endurance: A ranger gains Endurance as a bonus feat at 3rd level.

Animal Companion (Ex): At 4th level, a ranger gains an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures may be added to the ranger’s list of options: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the ranger on his adventures as appropriate for its kind.

This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name, except that the ranger’s effective druid level is his ranger level minus three. A ranger may select from the alternative lists of animal companions just as a druid can, though again his effective druid level is his ranger level minus three. Like a druid, a ranger cannot select an alternative animal if the choice would reduce his effective druid level below 1st.

Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list. A ranger must choose and prepare his spells in advance (see below).

To prepare or cast a spell, a ranger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ranger’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger’s Wisdom modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Ranger. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. When Table: The Ranger indicates that the ranger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. The ranger does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does.

A ranger prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though he cannot lose a prepared spell to cast a cure spell in its place. A ranger may prepare and cast any spell on the ranger spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation.

Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is his ranger level minus three.

Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style improves. He may select any feat from his chosen Combat Style feat’s feat tree (that is, any feat that has his Combat Style feat as a prerequisite). The ranger need not meet any prerequisites of the chosen feat apart from feat prerequisites. (That is, a ranger that chose Mounted Combat as his combat style may choose Ride-by Attack, but may not choose Spirited Charge unless he selected Ride-by Attack using a normal feat slot.)

As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a ranger may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment.

However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him.

Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a ranger can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Greater Combat Style (Ex): At 11th level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style improves again. He may select another feat from his chosen Combat Style feat’s feat tree (including feats that also have his Improved Combat Style feat as a prerequisite, if desired).

As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Companion Favored Enemy (Ex): The animal companion of a ranger of 12th level or higher becomes accustomed to and skilled at fighting the ranger's favored enemies. At 12th level, the companion applies half the ranger's favored enemy damage bonus against a creature when fighting that creature.

At 18th level the companion gains the full favored enemy bonus.

Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

Superior Combat Style (Ex): At 16th level, a ranger’s aptitude in his chosen combat style improves to its peak. He may select another feat from his chosen Combat Style feat’s feat tree (including feats that also have his Improved Combat Style feat as a prerequisite, if desired).

As before, the benefits of the ranger’s chosen style apply only when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

And that's pretty much it. Feedback is appreciated, ideas even more so.

Credit where credit's due: I pulled some ideas including condensing the humanoid and outsider favored enemy lists from Otto the Bugbear's ranger rewrite, found here. The spell progression is that used by OneWinged4ngel's paladin rewrite, found here.

Known issues: While the Combat Style progression works well for Two-Weapon Fighting and some of the archery trees, it lags way too much for the Mounted Combat and Dodge trees. I'm working on a workaround for that; suggestions are appreciated.

So to sum up:

• More spell slots (from +1 to +3 for a given spell level at 20th).
• Five types of Combat Style instead of two.
• Three levels of Combat Style instead of two.
• Huge knowledge skill bonus.
• Animal Companion gets Favored Enemy bonus damage.

The improved Combat Styles are very nice. The ranger really suffered from mediocrity here previously.

Ditto on the Animal Companion having the Preferred Enemy bonus.


I suspect the bonus on the Knowledge skill is rather high: the ranger is basically gaining the equivalent of his class level worth of ranks for each type of favored enemy. A 20th level ranger would have the equivalent of 100 skill ranks... Perhaps a bonus equal to half his level would be better?

Without the bonus a 10th level ranger with Int 16 would have a skill roll of up to d20 + 10+3 (ranks) +3 (Int bonus) for a total of d20+16, whereas with the Favored Enemy bonus it would shoot up to d20+16 (basic maxed skill) + 10 (class level) + 2 (Favored Enemy bonus) for a total of d20+28 (I'm assuming you're not allowing the Int bonus to be counted twice).


As for the spells per day, I agree that the ranger needs an upgrade, though I don't think he should get more spells per day at any level than the Druid does: the six first level spells at 20th level seem a bit too generous.

Note that the Bard goes up to only 2/3 of the Sorcerer's slots at 20th level (although of course he goes up to 6th spell level so that sort of balances it).

You may note I also changed both the caster level and effective druid level for the animal companion to ranger level -3 rather than half ranger level.

For the spells, I'd argue that at the levels we're talking about, first level spells are pretty much irrelevant anyway. Besides, druids may get fewer base spells, but a druid's Wisdom is going to be through the roof; he'll likely get at least two bonus first level spells by the time the ranger surpasses him on that score.

As for Knowledge, first I should add a note that this doesn't stack with actual Knowledge skills if applicable; the ranger adds whichever is higher. Secondly, the Knowledge bonus is high, but very, very limited. It only counts to know about creatures, and then only favored enemy types; a ranger with favored enemy (dragons) can know about dragons as though he had Knowledge (arcana), but he doesn't get the other bonuses of Knowledge (arcana), nor can he use the bonus to know about magical beasts or constructs (covered under the same Knowledge skill as dragons) unless they are also his favored enemies.

Also, interestingly enough, unless you're talking about aberrations or animals, the ranger can't actually max a Knowledge skill that covers many creatures; Knowledge (geography) covers no creature knowledge whatsoever.

Rogue 9 wrote:You may note I also changed both the caster level and effective druid level for the animal companion to ranger level -3 rather than half ranger level.

That's a pretty hefty bonus: the 20th level ranger will be equal to a 17th level druid (though granted, he only gets spell levels 1-4 ... so yea, that's probably OK).

Rogue 9 wrote:For the spells, I'd argue that at the levels we're talking about, first level spells are pretty much irrelevant anyway. Besides, druids may get fewer base spells, but a druid's Wisdom is going to be through the roof; he'll likely get at least two bonus first level spells by the time the ranger surpasses him on that score.

It was more a matter of principle than anything else.

Rogue 9 wrote:As for Knowledge, first I should add a note that this doesn't stack with actual Knowledge skills if applicable; the ranger adds whichever is higher. <SNIP>

In that case, I withdraw my objection. Better point out that it doesn't stack, though.

Edited in the required note on not stacking knowledges.

I really like your method of doing Combat Style. The varient I've always used (when the DM agrees) is one I saw a while ago. Basically, pick any feat for the first one, and then any other feat that requires the first as a prerequisite for the next. I did a few Cleave Style rangers, and one Spring Attack style. But I like the listing you've got. Covers pretty much all the bases.

Nitpick: you might want to give him something interesting at level 19. At present, nothing happens there except +1 BAB.

In all the other levels, he gains either a new spell level and/or a new attack and/or a Feat and/or one or more additional save bonuses in addition to the BAB.


EDIT:

To clarify, the new ranger gets +4 save bonuses at 1st level, +3 save bonuses at 6th, 12th and 18th levels +2 save bonuses at 2nd, 4th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 16th and 20th levels and +1 at 3rd, 9th, and 15th and none at all at 5th, 17th and 19th. This is of course to be expected for all classes with two good saves.

He then gets new attacks at 6th, 11th and 16th levels. This is to be expected for all classes with the Fighter progression.

Finally, he gets new spell levels at 4th, 7th, 10th and 13th levels (assuming he has a Wisdom bonus).


This leaves "doldrums" where little happens at 5th, 17th and 19th levels.

These can be mitigated by feats and additional spells: at 5th, he gains a Second Favored Enemy and an additional 1st level spell, while at 17th level he gains Hide in Plain Sight, an additional 3rd level spell and an additional 4th level spell. However, at 19th level, he gains nothing.

I like it, I don't mind the rare "dead level" most of the other classes don't get a special ability every bloody level either.

This is version 0.11, guys. Nothing to get excited about yet.

Rogue 9 wrote:This is version 0.11, guys. Nothing to get excited about yet.

That's fine. It was just a minor nitpick anyway.

And no, he doesn't really need some special ability every level, I just thought that those particular levels where Saves, BAB and spell levels don't advance would be nice places to put some of the things he does get.

Okay, a few options here. In attempting to fix the Combat Style thing, the fact that there's just no way to leave it that open and have things come out equal became inescapable. So, I'm working on some combat styles the original way, with a couple exceptions.

There will be more Combat Style advancement than just whenever the ranger's BAB allows another iterative attack.

Combat styles will not just give feats; there will be special abilities scattered throughout.

I've been working with my group's other primary DM, and he had several ideas. Here's his ideas first. To note, in his idea rangers get the Skirmish ability and get a die of Skirmish at every Combat Style improvement. (This is a rough idea; we'll decide on a final proposal for this tonight when we get to his house where the books are.)



Some of the names are obvious; some are not. Descriptions of those that are not:

Two-Weapon Spring Attack (Ex): When wielding two weapons, the ranger may make one attack with each weapon at his highest attack bonus (including the standard penalties for two-weapon fighting) and move in the same round.

Bounding Assault: A feat from Player's Handbook II. Essentially allows two Spring Attack targets in a round.

Two Weapon Bounding Assault: Allows the ranger to make one attack with each weapon per attack normally allowed by Bounding Assault.

Rapid Blitz: A feat from PHB2; allows a third Spring Attack target.

Two Weapon Rapid Blitz: As Two Weapon Bounding Assault only applying to Rapid Blitz.

Mounted Skirmish (Ex): The ranger may use Skirmish when his mount moves. (WotC has ruled that Skirmish normally does not apply when a mount you're on moves; the character must move himself.)

Double Charge (Ex): The ranger may make a mounted charge attack against two foes. The two enemies and the ranger (and ranger's mount) must form a straight line, so that the ranger's line of charge does not have to turn to strike both targets.

Companion Speed Boost: The ranger's animal companion (which is presumably also his mount) gains a +10 ft. speed boost, as a paladin's mount does.

Triple Charge: As Double Charge but with three targets.

Companion Skirmish: The ranger's animal companion may use the ranger's skirmish ability on its own attacks, but only while the ranger is mounted on it.

Manyshot on the Run (Ex): The ranger may use the Manyshot feat in conjunction with Shot on the Run. He may not take any other standard actions with Shot on the Run; only a manyshot. The ranger must expend his swift action for the round in order to use this ability.

Sniper Blind (Ex): When in natural terrain, the ranger halves the penalty to Hide imposed on an attempt to hide after firing a ranged weapon. This is applied after any other modifiers to the normal -20 penalty. The ranger must expend a swift action to apply this modifier to his Hide check.

Combat Archery (Ex): When threatened in melee, the ranger may shoot an opposing character in melee with him without provoking an attack of opportunity from his target. Any other creatures in melee with the ranger receive attacks of opportunity as normal. Using this ability requires a swift action.

Reactive Shot (Ex): The ranger may take a single ranged attack as an immediate action once per round. This (obviously) expends the ranger's immediate action, and consequently his swift action for his next turn.

That's the end of my friend's proposal. Some of the other abilities also require swift actions to activate; I merely forgot which ones for the other progressions. The idea is to force a tactical choice on the player, since a character receives only one swift or immediate action per round.

Now for my ideas. Since these are all separate combat styles, some combination of the styles from the two proposals might make it into the class. Some of my Combat Style progressions are not complete; any that have "dead" slots where other styles receive an ability will get one when I get more time to work on the idea. Suggestions are most welcome. Note: My idea does not give Skirmish to all ranger combat styles.



Supreme Two-Weapon Fighting: The ranger may make a fourth attack with his off-hand weapon at a -15 penalty, plus the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting.

Bonus Spells: The ranger adds Master Cavalier and it's companion spells from Complete Champion to his spell list at the same levels that paladins get the spells.

Skilled Horseman: The ranger may use the benefit of Mounted Combat one extra time per round. If the ranger does not have Mounted Combat, he instead gains the feat.

Precision (Ex): The ranger receives the listed bonus damage on ranged attacks when he takes a full round action beforehand to aim. (The required aiming action may be shortened or eliminated; I'm not sure about this idea yet.)

Skirmish (Ex): The scout ability from Complete Adventurer; the listed bonus damage applies to all weapon attacks in a round whenever the ranger moves more than ten feet in the round. The ability also grants an armor class bonus in the same conditions that advances on a separate progression in the scout class; I'll give it a look when I get to my books and finalize a progression on that.

Other abilities are explained above.

So, thoughts?

How about Pass Without Trace as a class feature?

The Black Company RPG has a non-magical ranger and about five different combat styles to choose from. You might want to consider a two handed weapon or unarmed styles.

I'm not a big fan of animal companion being a class feature. I can see some rangers having them, but others not. It's not something I would like to see as hardwired into the class.

Well... There's the option of having various specializations, one of which is animal companion, at 4th level instead of just giving animal companion (similar to the rebalanced paladin's idea of specializations at 5th, one of which is special mount). I had actually considered it, but didn't do it because Combat Style is essentially already almost the same thing. Might as well have two, though, if I can work up other options.

Rogue 9 wrote:How about Pass Without Trace as a class feature?

That sounds nice.

Or, to have a Feat that allows the ranger to lead his non-ranger buddies along specific paths that make it much harder, though not necessarily impossible, for enemies to track them. Pass Without Trace works only for the ranger himself, after all, it doesn't benefit any of the teammates. And if they can be tracked, the party can be tracked.

It would work sort of like Aragorn leading the hobbits in LotR.

Here goes nothing. I'm reworking the Combat Styles again in an effort to get this thing to use entirely Open Content so that it might be considered for publishing by a third party publisher.



All entires marked BD +xd6 are bonus damage applicable when the combat style is being used; for the two weapon fighter it applies whenever the ranger's wielding two weapons, and for the mounted ranger, it applies whenever the ranger is mounted. The abilities will be named when I think of something appropriate. I've already named the archery style's bonus damage Precision.

Two-Weapon Spring Attack: When wielding two weapons, the ranger may make one attack with each weapon at his highest attack bonus (including the standard penalties for two-weapon fighting) and move in the same round. This ability improves when the ranger gains Improved Spring Attack and Greater Spring Attack (see below).

Improved Spring Attack: When using Spring Attack, the ranger may attack two targets, moving before and after each attack. The ranger must have enough movement to engage both targets. Due to Two-Weapon Spring Attack, the ranger may make one attack with each weapon against each target. Attacks against the second target suffer a -5 penalty.

Greater Spring Attack: When using Spring Attack, the ranger may attack three targets, moving before and after each attack. The ranger must have enough movement to reach each target. Due to Two-Weapon Spring Attack, the ranger may make one attack with each weapon against each target. Attacks against the second target suffer a -5 penalty, and attacks against the third target suffer a -10 penalty.

Superior Two-Weapon Fighting: The ranger may make a fourth attack with his off-hand weapon at a -15 penalty, plus the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting.

Skilled Horseman: The ranger may use the benefit of Mounted Combat one extra time per round. If the ranger does not have Mounted Combat, he instead gains the feat.

Companion Speed Boost: The ranger's animal companion (which is presumably also his mount) gains a +10 ft. speed boost, as a paladin's mount does.

Double Charge (Ex): The ranger may make a mounted charge attack against two foes. The two enemies and the ranger (and ranger's mount) must form a straight line, so that the ranger's line of charge does not have to turn to strike both targets.

Triple Charge (Ex): As Double Charge but with three targets.

Companion Bonus Damage (Ex): When the ranger is mounted on his animal companion, the animal companion also receives the bonus damage that the ranger receives for being mounted.

Precision (Ex): Whenever the ranger is wielding a ranged weapon, he adds the listed bonus damage dice to his damage rolls with that weapon.

Sniper Blind (Ex): When in natural terrain, the ranger halves the penalty to Hide imposed on an attempt to hide after firing a ranged weapon. This is applied after any other modifiers to the normal -20 penalty.

Combat Archery (Ex): When threatened in melee, the ranger may attack an opposing character in melee with him with a ranged weapon without provoking an attack of opportunity from his target. Any other creatures in melee with the ranger receive attacks of opportunity as normal.

Reactive Shot (Ex): The ranger may take a single ranged attack as a free action once per round, even when it is not his turn. This interrupts actions as a readied action does.

Stalking (Ex): The ranger's penalties for hiding and moving silently while moving are reduced as follows: Moving at the ranger's full normal speed imposes a -2 penalty to Hide and Move Silently, while running or charging imposes a -10 penalty to the same skills. These penalties replace the normal ones listed in the skill descriptions. The penalty to hiding while attacking is unchanged.

Improved Stalking (Ex): The ranger suffers no penalty to Hide and Move Silently while moving up to his normal speed, and a -5 penalty to the listed skills while running or charging.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): As the normal ranger ability. If this is in the final version of the Swift Hunter specialization, HiPS on the basic ranger chart will be removed and replaced with another ability.

Hunter's Strike (Ex): If the ranger takes one full round to study his target, any attacks he makes on the next round that hit that target are automatically critical hits. The target must be eligible for Sneak Attack for the entire round; that is, the target must either be flanked or unaware of the ranger for the entire round. While studying the target, the ranger may take no other actions.
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And that's it for now. I'm going to clean this up and submit it to Paizo for consideration for their Pathfinder RPG system. I'm not entirely happy with the Swift Hunter specialization as it is now; I'm considering giving it Wind Stance and Lightning Stance from the Pathfinder RPG alpha document instead of some of the abilities it has now. (Those feats grant concealment when you move.) Comments and criticism are, as always, welcome.

... there are times when I wonder just how much I missed when I stopped playing D&D back in 2nd edition.

General Havoc wrote:... there are times when I wonder just how much I missed when I stopped playing D&D back in 2nd edition.

Rogue's just not going to be happy with any ranger class put out by D&D. He's like CT with mages.

Wherever did you get that idea, milady? No, my beef's the paladin. Ranger is Frigid's thing; I'm doing this as a side project.

4th Ed Pally rocks. He smites all day, he smites all night.

SirNitram wrote:4th Ed Pally rocks. He smites all day, he smites all night.

I could SOOOOOOOOO Take that Out of Context.

I liked to play mages! With arquebuses!

*Hides in a hole*

General Havoc wrote:I liked to play mages! With arquebuses!

*Hides in a hole*

*hooks Havoc and winches him into the Iron Kingdoms*

Rogue's just not going to be happy with any ranger class put out by D&D.

Actually I'm the big Ranger player and I thought we got screwed over hard by 3.0 and screwed over less hard by 3.5.