Love them cuz they're pretty, or pretty cuz you love them?
Moderator: Charon
- SirNitram
- The All-Seeing Eye
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#1
If I hear one more woman go 'I'm not pretty enough!' 'I'm never going to be worthy of him!' or 'I can't ask him out, I'm so ugly!', I might just snap and conquer the Earth.
I doubt anyone here has the problem, but I'm gonna do the tirade anyways. Cause people need reminded.
Ladies, you're not as ugly/fat/plain/boring as you think you are. You have listened to Hollywood and magazines too long. We are real guys. This, sadly, means we are not going to save you from villains or spontaneously take trips to the Carribean. On the other hand, it means we're not expecting you to look like a woman who gets four hours of attention from a team of specialists to make her a feminine ideal.
You want the difference between a plain or pretty girl, and a drop-dead-gorgeous sex goddess who makes the guys beg for attention? Attitude. Presentation. It's nothing physical. The body has it's limits. But the right clothes, the right walk, the right glance.. Trust me, we go weak.
Ask Tev sometime. She's convinced she's not pretty. But let me tell you; when she hits the dancefloor at MarCon, when she dresses up for a fancy dinner or day at the theatre, or just when we're being romantic, she turns into a vision.
So please. For the sake of your platonic friends and the poor guys who are gazing at you dreamy eyed: Don't be so hard on yourselves. You're still a miracle and we're glad to have all of you.
Rant mode: Off.
I doubt anyone here has the problem, but I'm gonna do the tirade anyways. Cause people need reminded.
Ladies, you're not as ugly/fat/plain/boring as you think you are. You have listened to Hollywood and magazines too long. We are real guys. This, sadly, means we are not going to save you from villains or spontaneously take trips to the Carribean. On the other hand, it means we're not expecting you to look like a woman who gets four hours of attention from a team of specialists to make her a feminine ideal.
You want the difference between a plain or pretty girl, and a drop-dead-gorgeous sex goddess who makes the guys beg for attention? Attitude. Presentation. It's nothing physical. The body has it's limits. But the right clothes, the right walk, the right glance.. Trust me, we go weak.
Ask Tev sometime. She's convinced she's not pretty. But let me tell you; when she hits the dancefloor at MarCon, when she dresses up for a fancy dinner or day at the theatre, or just when we're being romantic, she turns into a vision.
So please. For the sake of your platonic friends and the poor guys who are gazing at you dreamy eyed: Don't be so hard on yourselves. You're still a miracle and we're glad to have all of you.
Rant mode: Off.
Half-Damned, All Hero.
Tev: You're happy. You're Plotting. You're Evil.
Me: Evil is so inappropriate. I'm ruthless.
Tev: You're turning me on.
I Am Rage. You Will Know My Fury.
Tev: You're happy. You're Plotting. You're Evil.
Me: Evil is so inappropriate. I'm ruthless.
Tev: You're turning me on.
I Am Rage. You Will Know My Fury.
- Narsil
- Lord of Time
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#2
I thought you were already planning to do thatNitram wrote:I might just snap and conquer the Earth.
But in all seriousness:
I think the issue requires its own thread in the 'Morality' section. It's quite clearly a very fucking big problem and makes me, myself, feel rather angry that many pretty young women feel that they're inadequate as human beings, simply because of what appears in a fucking magazine. Ah, the beauty of modern media, and its 'positive' effects on humanity . And meanwhile, my sister continues to watch America's/Australia's/Britain's Next Top Model... *shakes head* why?
For a moment, let's look at (Insert Country)'s Top Model... and think about it for a second; did some fucking network exec think to themselves "Oh, I know, 99% of women feel inadequate about themselves, let's broadcast a fashion show with supermodel-type women competing against each other as if only one of them is adequate... it's a brilliant idea!"
Fucking media, needs to be keelhauled.
- Shark Bait
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#3
I'm sorry I was going to hold my tongue but I can't. The media is not the problem its human nature we seem to have an inate desire to hold up some standard of beauty and say this is what beauty is. You could easily make the argument that that has been the basis for much of art throughout history, for example Greek sculptures of Aphrodite using concealing revealing design, Rubin’s nudes, hell even Michelangelo’s The David.Narsil wrote:Fucking media, needs to be keelhauled.
That being said yes I can agree with Nitram's origional post, I think on some level everyone is a bit insecure its just a question of how much you let it get to you.
[img=left]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/ ... giite1.png[/img]"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
"Rule 4: Blades don't need reloading."
-Zombie survival guide
"What is burning people but stabbing them with fire?"
-Frigidmagi
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
"Rule 4: Blades don't need reloading."
-Zombie survival guide
"What is burning people but stabbing them with fire?"
-Frigidmagi
- Rukia
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#4
I'm guilty of everything that Nit has spoken off...
wanna talk about social conditioning? Ask me... I'm the worlds worst. Ask Allen and Scottie they'll tell ya in a heartbeat how difficult I am. B/c I'll tell you in a hearbeat how 'not pretty' I am.
wanna talk about social conditioning? Ask me... I'm the worlds worst. Ask Allen and Scottie they'll tell ya in a heartbeat how difficult I am. B/c I'll tell you in a hearbeat how 'not pretty' I am.
shark42bait: you are evil...
shark42bait: i admire that in a woman....
I'm a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an AWESOME rack!
"if you want to get out of a speeding ticket short skirts and crying are still the way to go" Kairy on "mythbusters"
LimePink: "Um, Mr. President? I was doing a suduko puzzle, and based on the hidden co-ordinates in the grid, I think Osama Bin Laden is either here : points on map: or here :points to another spot within 5 miles:. Also, Jay-Z killed Tupac Shakur and the lost treasure of Atlantis actually turned to the glacier that sunk the Titanic."
shark42bait: i admire that in a woman....
I'm a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an AWESOME rack!
"if you want to get out of a speeding ticket short skirts and crying are still the way to go" Kairy on "mythbusters"
LimePink: "Um, Mr. President? I was doing a suduko puzzle, and based on the hidden co-ordinates in the grid, I think Osama Bin Laden is either here : points on map: or here :points to another spot within 5 miles:. Also, Jay-Z killed Tupac Shakur and the lost treasure of Atlantis actually turned to the glacier that sunk the Titanic."
- SirNitram
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#5
Pfffft. Pfffft, I say to you, ma'am!Rukia wrote:I'm guilty of everything that Nit has spoken off...
wanna talk about social conditioning? Ask me... I'm the worlds worst. Ask Allen and Scottie they'll tell ya in a heartbeat how difficult I am. B/c I'll tell you in a hearbeat how 'not pretty' I am.
The prom pictures you posted are the epitome of what I'm talking about: It's all attitude and presentation. You looked great.
And I've no reason to flirt or exagerrate, I'm the married guy.
Half-Damned, All Hero.
Tev: You're happy. You're Plotting. You're Evil.
Me: Evil is so inappropriate. I'm ruthless.
Tev: You're turning me on.
I Am Rage. You Will Know My Fury.
Tev: You're happy. You're Plotting. You're Evil.
Me: Evil is so inappropriate. I'm ruthless.
Tev: You're turning me on.
I Am Rage. You Will Know My Fury.
- Shark Bait
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#6
I have to agree that how you carry yourself has much to do with "beauty" though my perspective may be a bit tainted. I have to say that attitude has much to do with mate selection in humans probably has something to do with our social nature and the subtext of body language.
[img=left]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/ ... giite1.png[/img]"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
"Rule 4: Blades don't need reloading."
-Zombie survival guide
"What is burning people but stabbing them with fire?"
-Frigidmagi
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
"Rule 4: Blades don't need reloading."
-Zombie survival guide
"What is burning people but stabbing them with fire?"
-Frigidmagi
- Rukia
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#7
Thank you. I really do appriciate the kind words. But, You have to realize that I took about two and half hours getting ready. On a normal day... I look like shit ran over. So I take a few good pics for a big occasion. People pass me on the street and don't look twice. Especially if I'm with my friends.. I turn invisable. Ask the guys, telling me I'm pretty is like talking to a wall. I don't compare to say... xBF or Caz... I just don't. I've come to accept that. *shrugs* Like I said, social conditioning, it's tamed my spirit.SirNitram wrote:Pfffft. Pfffft, I say to you, ma'am!
The prom pictures you posted are the epitome of what I'm talking about: It's all attitude and presentation. You looked great.
And I've no reason to flirt or exagerrate, I'm the married guy.
shark42bait: you are evil...
shark42bait: i admire that in a woman....
I'm a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an AWESOME rack!
"if you want to get out of a speeding ticket short skirts and crying are still the way to go" Kairy on "mythbusters"
LimePink: "Um, Mr. President? I was doing a suduko puzzle, and based on the hidden co-ordinates in the grid, I think Osama Bin Laden is either here : points on map: or here :points to another spot within 5 miles:. Also, Jay-Z killed Tupac Shakur and the lost treasure of Atlantis actually turned to the glacier that sunk the Titanic."
shark42bait: i admire that in a woman....
I'm a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an AWESOME rack!
"if you want to get out of a speeding ticket short skirts and crying are still the way to go" Kairy on "mythbusters"
LimePink: "Um, Mr. President? I was doing a suduko puzzle, and based on the hidden co-ordinates in the grid, I think Osama Bin Laden is either here : points on map: or here :points to another spot within 5 miles:. Also, Jay-Z killed Tupac Shakur and the lost treasure of Atlantis actually turned to the glacier that sunk the Titanic."
- SirNitram
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#8
It's bullshit, plain and simple. It may have wormed it's way into your head, it may have convinced you it's true, but it's a load of crap. You're invisible because you want to be. You are, as I said in the opening post, alot prettier than you beleive. You just need some confindence. You need to listen to those telling you you're beautiful.Rukia wrote:Like I said, social conditioning, it's tamed my spirit.
Half-Damned, All Hero.
Tev: You're happy. You're Plotting. You're Evil.
Me: Evil is so inappropriate. I'm ruthless.
Tev: You're turning me on.
I Am Rage. You Will Know My Fury.
Tev: You're happy. You're Plotting. You're Evil.
Me: Evil is so inappropriate. I'm ruthless.
Tev: You're turning me on.
I Am Rage. You Will Know My Fury.
- The Cleric
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#9
Nitram, I hate to say it, but some people really are just unattractive. No amount of coddling will change that fact. Granted, there are many women who decry themselfs as ugly who truely aren't, but then again I've met a few who think they're the most beautiful thing ever who I wouldn't talk to before drinking enough alcohol to drown a dolphin in.
Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river.
The three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of god.
The three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of god.
- Comrade Tortoise
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#10
Like that crazy fundie ladie on Trading Spouses that looked like she and Jabba the Hutt could be very very happy together?The Cleric wrote:Nitram, I hate to say it, but some people really are just unattractive. No amount of coddling will change that fact. Granted, there are many women who decry themselfs as ugly who truely aren't, but then again I've met a few who think they're the most beautiful thing ever who I wouldn't talk to before drinking enough alcohol to drown a dolphin in.
"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution."
- Theodosius Dobzhansky
There is no word harsh enough for this. No verbal edge sharp and cold enough to set forth the flaying needed. English is to young and the elder languages of the earth beyond me. ~Frigid
The Holocaust was an Amazing Logistical Achievement~Havoc
- Theodosius Dobzhansky
There is no word harsh enough for this. No verbal edge sharp and cold enough to set forth the flaying needed. English is to young and the elder languages of the earth beyond me. ~Frigid
The Holocaust was an Amazing Logistical Achievement~Havoc
- Dark Silver
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#11
Yes, but what Nitram is talking about, Cleric, is those who are NOT but fucking ugly, but instead are rather pretty, hell, even beautiful, but because thier trying to compare themselves to super models and actresses who have professional makeup people, they think thier ugly as shit.The Cleric wrote:Nitram, I hate to say it, but some people really are just unattractive. No amount of coddling will change that fact. Granted, there are many women who decry themselfs as ugly who truely aren't, but then again I've met a few who think they're the most beautiful thing ever who I wouldn't talk to before drinking enough alcohol to drown a dolphin in.
Rukia, is one such example, with horrid self esteem and a self-image which belies the reality we've seen.
Allen Thibodaux | Archmagus | Supervillain | Transfan | Trekker | Warsie |
"Then again, Detective....how often have you dreamed of hearing your father's voice once more? Of feeling your mother's touch?" - Ra's Al Ghul
"According to the Bible, IHVH created the Universe in six days....he obviously didn't know what he was doing." - Darek Steele bani Order of Hermes.
DS's Golden Rule: I am not a bigot, I hate everyone equally. | corollary: Some are more equal than others.
"Then again, Detective....how often have you dreamed of hearing your father's voice once more? Of feeling your mother's touch?" - Ra's Al Ghul
"According to the Bible, IHVH created the Universe in six days....he obviously didn't know what he was doing." - Darek Steele bani Order of Hermes.
DS's Golden Rule: I am not a bigot, I hate everyone equally. | corollary: Some are more equal than others.
- B4UTRUST
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#12
Yes dear, you are very frustrating. But I still insist with my plan that maybe if I tell you enough times you'll believe me and not think I'm insane or crazy. Well thats my hope at least.Rukia wrote:I'm guilty of everything that Nit has spoken off...
wanna talk about social conditioning? Ask me... I'm the worlds worst. Ask Allen and Scottie they'll tell ya in a heartbeat how difficult I am. B/c I'll tell you in a hearbeat how 'not pretty' I am.
But yes, a lot of guys and gals are like this. Myself included.
If we're not a calvin klein model or blond beach bum surfer boy in looks we tend to think we're not that attractive ourselves guys. It's not just girls.
But it is a problem...
Saint Annihilus - Patron Saint of Dealing with Stupid Customers
#14
The ideal woman in classical art was a healthy creature, with some belly and hips and everything.Shark Bait wrote:
I'm sorry I was going to hold my tongue but I can't. The media is not the problem its human nature we seem to have an inate desire to hold up some standard of beauty and say this is what beauty is. You could easily make the argument that that has been the basis for much of art throughout history, for example Greek sculptures of Aphrodite using concealing revealing design, Rubin’s nudes, hell even Michelangelo’s The David.
That being said yes I can agree with Nitram's origional post, I think on some level everyone is a bit insecure its just a question of how much you let it get to you.
What we see today in the media is sick, women that have a "guy-ish" body structure - small hip bones, thin pelvises, broad shoulders.
Real women don't look like that.
Real women need some fat if they want to get their period.
Everyone is insecure, but the media wants us to be more insecure.
Some people want to make money, you know
~The little fundie~
- Shark Bait
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#15
I was not saying the idea of beauty has not changed, hell Rubin's nudes were down right chunky and would (even by medical terms) be considered over weight. More classic Greek/Helenistic body types yes that is closer to healthy, but The David, hell its crazy dissproportional and impossible for any guy to look that way. The point was not to say what is and is not beautiful but to instead say that perhaps it is our nature to hold up and point to what people of the time think is beautiful.
[img=left]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/ ... giite1.png[/img]"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
"Rule 4: Blades don't need reloading."
-Zombie survival guide
"What is burning people but stabbing them with fire?"
-Frigidmagi
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
"Rule 4: Blades don't need reloading."
-Zombie survival guide
"What is burning people but stabbing them with fire?"
-Frigidmagi
- SirNitram
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#16
All I ask from the female body is the hourglass. That is, there should be a slight curve inwards between the boobs and rear. Which most women have. Boobs are also nice, and should be appreciated. Regularly.
Half-Damned, All Hero.
Tev: You're happy. You're Plotting. You're Evil.
Me: Evil is so inappropriate. I'm ruthless.
Tev: You're turning me on.
I Am Rage. You Will Know My Fury.
Tev: You're happy. You're Plotting. You're Evil.
Me: Evil is so inappropriate. I'm ruthless.
Tev: You're turning me on.
I Am Rage. You Will Know My Fury.
- LadyTevar
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#17
I'm beginning to lean towards the Rubinesque, myself. I've never been thin, I've always been hippy with a small bust. I used to joke with my sis LadyJules/Devonie that she could have breast reduction surgery and I'd take what she lost.
I also had/have all the self-esteem issues that Rukia is complaining about... no boyfriends in high school, half the guys not even talking/looking at me.
Then I hit college, and found that there were guys out there who appreciated not just my looks, but my brain. In the three years between highschool and me 'settling down' with my ex-husband, I hand a doublehandful of lovers because I felt Pretty. (Scadian dress tends to do this, so did Devonie showing me how to acentuate my positives. We won't get into Devonie's positives)
Sometimes, I wonder if I'd have been as down on myself when I got into college if I'd had the internet and good friends outside my smalltown-life like Nit, B4, DS, and the rest of the guys telling me how pretty I really was.
No one can tell, can they...
I also had/have all the self-esteem issues that Rukia is complaining about... no boyfriends in high school, half the guys not even talking/looking at me.
Then I hit college, and found that there were guys out there who appreciated not just my looks, but my brain. In the three years between highschool and me 'settling down' with my ex-husband, I hand a doublehandful of lovers because I felt Pretty. (Scadian dress tends to do this, so did Devonie showing me how to acentuate my positives. We won't get into Devonie's positives)
Sometimes, I wonder if I'd have been as down on myself when I got into college if I'd had the internet and good friends outside my smalltown-life like Nit, B4, DS, and the rest of the guys telling me how pretty I really was.
No one can tell, can they...
Dogs are Man's Best Friend
Cats are Man's Adorable Little Serial Killers
#18
I can understand where Rukia is coming from. Just because someone says you are good looking and if you can "clean up good" at times, it doesn't make a person feel particuarlly good about themselves.
I grew up being told I was stupid and ugly and no matter what anyone says, I believe it to this day.
Allen and I have discussed this before and he knows I can have a very very low self esteem.
When you see the women that men do get all googly eyed over, it can be very hard to ever picture a man going after yourself, knowing the way you feel about yourself.
I grew up being told I was stupid and ugly and no matter what anyone says, I believe it to this day.
Allen and I have discussed this before and he knows I can have a very very low self esteem.
When you see the women that men do get all googly eyed over, it can be very hard to ever picture a man going after yourself, knowing the way you feel about yourself.
- Rukia
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#19
HA HA!
I'm not the only one!
*RRRRAAAAAZZZZZZZZ*
I'm not the only one!
*RRRRAAAAAZZZZZZZZ*
shark42bait: you are evil...
shark42bait: i admire that in a woman....
I'm a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an AWESOME rack!
"if you want to get out of a speeding ticket short skirts and crying are still the way to go" Kairy on "mythbusters"
LimePink: "Um, Mr. President? I was doing a suduko puzzle, and based on the hidden co-ordinates in the grid, I think Osama Bin Laden is either here : points on map: or here :points to another spot within 5 miles:. Also, Jay-Z killed Tupac Shakur and the lost treasure of Atlantis actually turned to the glacier that sunk the Titanic."
shark42bait: i admire that in a woman....
I'm a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an AWESOME rack!
"if you want to get out of a speeding ticket short skirts and crying are still the way to go" Kairy on "mythbusters"
LimePink: "Um, Mr. President? I was doing a suduko puzzle, and based on the hidden co-ordinates in the grid, I think Osama Bin Laden is either here : points on map: or here :points to another spot within 5 miles:. Also, Jay-Z killed Tupac Shakur and the lost treasure of Atlantis actually turned to the glacier that sunk the Titanic."
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#20
Um-didn't her Ladyship show that you ain't, and didn't B4 show that us guys are by no means immune to it?Rukia wrote:HA HA!
I'm not the only one!
*RRRRAAAAAZZZZZZZZ*
'I wonder how far the barometer sunk.'-'All der way. Trust me on dis.'
'Go ahead. Bake my quiche'.
'Undead or alive, you're coming with me.'
'Detritus?'-'Yessir?'-'Never go to Klatch'.-'Yessir.'
'Many fine old manuscripts in that place, I believe. Without price, I'm told.'-'Yes, sir. Certainly worthless, sir.'-'Is it possible you misunderstood what I just said, Commander?'
'Can't sing, can't dance, can handle a sword a little'
'Run away, and live to run away another day'-The Rincewind principle
'Hello, inner child. I'm the inner babysitter.'
'Go ahead. Bake my quiche'.
'Undead or alive, you're coming with me.'
'Detritus?'-'Yessir?'-'Never go to Klatch'.-'Yessir.'
'Many fine old manuscripts in that place, I believe. Without price, I'm told.'-'Yes, sir. Certainly worthless, sir.'-'Is it possible you misunderstood what I just said, Commander?'
'Can't sing, can't dance, can handle a sword a little'
'Run away, and live to run away another day'-The Rincewind principle
'Hello, inner child. I'm the inner babysitter.'
- Rukia
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#21
Yea well
*rrrrrraaaaaazzzzzzzzzz*
*rrrrrraaaaaazzzzzzzzzz*
shark42bait: you are evil...
shark42bait: i admire that in a woman....
I'm a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an AWESOME rack!
"if you want to get out of a speeding ticket short skirts and crying are still the way to go" Kairy on "mythbusters"
LimePink: "Um, Mr. President? I was doing a suduko puzzle, and based on the hidden co-ordinates in the grid, I think Osama Bin Laden is either here : points on map: or here :points to another spot within 5 miles:. Also, Jay-Z killed Tupac Shakur and the lost treasure of Atlantis actually turned to the glacier that sunk the Titanic."
shark42bait: i admire that in a woman....
I'm a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an AWESOME rack!
"if you want to get out of a speeding ticket short skirts and crying are still the way to go" Kairy on "mythbusters"
LimePink: "Um, Mr. President? I was doing a suduko puzzle, and based on the hidden co-ordinates in the grid, I think Osama Bin Laden is either here : points on map: or here :points to another spot within 5 miles:. Also, Jay-Z killed Tupac Shakur and the lost treasure of Atlantis actually turned to the glacier that sunk the Titanic."
- The Village Idiot
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#23
put it to better use? *GRIN*LadyTevar wrote:Young lady, what *have* I told you about sticking your tongue out?!
"Sir, are you classified as human?"
"Negative, I am a meat popsicle."
Corbin Dallas - The Fifth Element
"Negative, I am a meat popsicle."
Corbin Dallas - The Fifth Element
- LadyTevar
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#24
Good Boy!The Village Idiot wrote:put it to better use? *GRIN*LadyTevar wrote:Young lady, what *have* I told you about sticking your tongue out?!
*cyber-cookie*
Dogs are Man's Best Friend
Cats are Man's Adorable Little Serial Killers
- Shark Bait
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#25
Damn it dont encourage him, I've been trying to make him socially acceptable for years.
[img=left]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/ ... giite1.png[/img]"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
"Rule 4: Blades don't need reloading."
-Zombie survival guide
"What is burning people but stabbing them with fire?"
-Frigidmagi
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
"Rule 4: Blades don't need reloading."
-Zombie survival guide
"What is burning people but stabbing them with fire?"
-Frigidmagi