On Chi.

[Angelod]

Frigidmagi mentioned my "devotion" to it. So I figured that would be a good controversial place to start my foray into this forum.

[story

I have a intuitive knowledge and control over my own Chi. Now, being as that the concept of Chi is readily acknowledged and understood in the eastern world, that is not such an amazing statement. However, I was born and raised in Minnesota, moved to Arizona when I was ten or so. With a white protestant family, and a non-denominational church, the most I had ever heard of the concept of Chi was from Dragon-Ball. And that doesn't really count.

However, I was a unique teenager. I would often choose, whenever feeling emotional or overwhelmed, to sit in silence and darkness just thinking to myself. At the time, I had no real idea what meditation was, or what people meditated for. But looking back, I spent a lot of time doing it. I started to feel energy within my body. And with concentration, I started to be able to move it. Control its flow, as I now know it is called. I talked to my parents about it, and they encouraged me to experiment. So I did.

I found my senses increasing depending on where I focused it to. I could sit and feel every breeze of air around me. I could feel every nerve in my body responding to my will and standing at attention. I would notice my body feeling warmer and warmer the more I focused on it. I checked with my siblings. Randomly running up and asking them if I felt hot to them. I focused before and during extreme physical stress. I found out that when I focused, I became far stronger than I thought I was.

Which was not always a good thing. With power, comes responsibility. With responsibility, one must exercise restraint. One day my brother accidentally erased my perfect dark save on the N64. I was livid. Being one with anger issues; (hence my tendency to resort to meditation) I lost control. I attacked him. My brother is not a small person. My family tends towards the large side as it is. At the time he probably weighed a good 230 pounds. In my incoherent rage, I lifted him off the ground with one hand, and slammed him on the floor. I realized that day that I needed to control myself. And that perhaps, it was more important for me to have control than it was for most people.

Which brings me to today. I am in control. My Chi is my tool, and my mind is the master of my body. This is my story.

/Story]

Rant]

Now, obviously I am putting this in the Philosophy and Theology thread for a reason. I was not raised to believe in Chi. I learned of my energies myself, and was later told of the traditional idea of Chi. They matched well enough that I started calling it so. I have found most people who have studied martial arts believe in and understand Chi as well. But as for myself, I am still uncertain of how to scientifically explain or understand it.

How about it folks? Do you believe in Chi? Does anyone else have an understanding of it? Do you think it falls outside the range of scientific explanation? Is it explainable through religious terms? (obviously eastern religions, how about western religions?)

Really I am trying to start a discussion. Along with explaining some of the more, unexplainable pieces of myself. Normally this is not a subject I share. I feel this forum is an ok place to do so.

/rant]

(related to this is Dim Mak, the pinnacle of Chi wielding martial arts. ) (And obviously everyone has heard of acupuncture.)

[frigidmagi]

Whether or not you were raised to believe in it does not matter, you clearly believe in it now. While I am unsure as to my own belief towards it, I cannot explain away the various things I have seen with my own eyes towards that effect. It becomes clear to me that there is something in effect whether it be Chi or just a better mental over your own phyiscal being in the end for me at least ends up being irrevelent.

I can say that because I am not a sciencist.

As for the other bit. Self Control is requirement for everyone. This is just one more thing you must learn to control.

[Cynical Cat]

Mystical bullshit. The effects of state of mind on the body are well documented from parents lifting heavy objects to save their children to patients recovering twenty percent faster in rooms with a nice view. There is no need to invent unmeasurable energy fields to account for this phenomena

[Angelod]

State of mind is a way to look at it. And I agree that ones state of mind is very important. However, I personally have always felt my "Chi" to be independent of my state of mind. I would liken it more to a muscle, that once you realize you have it, you can flex it and exercise it like any other. Also, I don't necessarily believe in unmeasurable energy fields either CC. But has there been studies done with Chi masters to test whether there is or is not any measurable energy with their moves? I do not know. Watch the link at the bottom of my post. A man like that would be an interesting case study. The body has a very complex electrical system running throughout it. Above and beyond state of mind, I believe that there are levels to this electrical system that science doesn't understand... yet...

[frigidmagi]

I would suggest that neither one of you is likely to change his opinion over this.

[Angelod]

Ha, very likely. But without disagreement, there is no debate. And without debate, there are no new viewpoints interjected. Without new viewpoints... Well, you get the idea. :)

[Cynical Cat]

Above and beyond state of mind, I believe that there are levels to this electrical system that science doesn't understand... yet...

The nervous system is very well understood. We know what how the cells that make it up work, we know how the whole system works. Your beliefs <<<<<biological science. As for your suppossed denial in the existence of unmeasurable energy, that's exactly what "Chi" is. Everything is either matter or energy. You believe that something that we can't detect with all the scientific apparati we have available. Fine. Its not incumbent upon me to prove a negative and you certainly aren't going to provide evidence beyond your "feelings", which is to say worthless subjective and anecdotal evidence. That's fine as well. I will treat such bs with the contempt it deserves until you can provide something better.

[Angelod]

Exactly why it went in Philosophy and Theology section. :)

[LadyTevar]

As CynCat said, there is either matter or energy. To me, 'Chi' is nothing more than directing the energy of your body (bloodflow, breathing, mind) and focusing it on one task.

[Destructionator XV]

Chi is bullshit, plain and simple. If it is really there, then why cannot it be reproduced reliably under controlled conditions and measured? If it can be, why are there no articles on it in any peer reviewed journals describing it?

[Mayabird]

There is quite a bit about brain function and the mind-body connection that we don't entirely know about. "Chi" and other such things are methods and techniques of explaining and applying bits of knowledge about these brain functions in some sort of coherent way. Doesn't mean that there's a mystical undetectable invisible pink energy force. It just means people have figured out how to control breathing, heart rate, focus, etc. for certain tasks. These abilities are inherent in the brain, and with training these functions can be enhanced, in the same way that immersion in a foreign language enhances the areas associated with language or playing a musical instrument strengthens the music centers (there is a music center of the brain - it's bigger in musicians than non-musicians, and even larger in people with perfect pitch).

For instance, I have this trick of mentally dulling pain. If I have a physical pain in my body, I can focus and center on the exact spot where the pain is. It'll go away for a few seconds if I take my concentration off, so I need it to constantly focus on it to stop the pain. The more it hurts, the more concentration I need. This isn't me "focusing my chi." I'm not sure entirely how it works, but it's some conscious control of pain receptors or chemical release or something like that. I'm pretty sure it can be taught, but most people don't want to get the punches in the arm or the kicks in the leg required to test it. Also, I don't have the money to rent a CAT scanner to see what happens.

Yeah, that was long and rambly, but I'm definately on the "science" side of this.

[Hotfoot]

Chi as described in many works of fiction (such as most anime, where people can shoot balls of energy or fly) is no more real than the acts of magic performed by Gandalf in the tomes of Tolkien. The concept of Chi, from a secular point of view, is little more than use of the full body to perform a single task. Rather than blindly punching someone, you put the full weight of your body behind the punch, using every bit of mechanical advantage you have, and so on. Pressure points, such as the ones used in acupucture, are little more than nerve clusters that are being manipulated. It can also be seen as another name for the Placebo effect, or mind over matter.

As I see it, it's not so much that Chi is bullshit or anything like that, but I think it's been romanticised to be greater than it appears to be. I think of it this way: many of the Hebrew laws concerning what to not eat and such stemmed from practicality (eating pork could kill you back then), phrasing them as divine commandments acted as additional encouragement for people to follow along.

I personally don't believe in Chi as a religious thing (I'm not a religious person of course), but I can see how Chi can be seen as such. However, given the nature of the cultures from which Chi originated, I'm not surprised it has become a somewhat religious object. Remember that the Chinese and Japanese religions tend to deify just about anything and everything. You've got spirits and gods for just about every object under the sun, so using Chi as the human spirit makes a degree of sense.