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#1 In The Defense of Violence.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:19 pm
by frigidmagi
In various other forums and within real life itself I often hear the statement that boils down to the effect that causing suffering or harm even to evil individuals or groups is evil and morally wrong. I deeply disagree with this belief.

I shall be blunt and frank with you, I fully intend to defend and support the act of causing pain, suffering and even death upon fellow human beings in this writing. To not only defend the sheer necesscity of doing so but to defend the inherent morality invovled and movativing the act. I fully expect there to be great disagreement and contention to this.

To begin:

I submit to you that those who make this statement have already conceded to the existance of good and evil. That unlike the doctrine of confused postmodernism they acknowledge that is possible for human beings and beliefs or even whole soceities of human beings to be evil, mindboggling has that may be to inhabiants of the modern 1st world. While there may be some debate as to what defines evil or what evil is in and of itself. By saying this they have admited it's existance and their belief in it. Therefore I shall based this agruement on the idea that we share a belief that both good and evil exist although we may not agree what defines either concept.

In The Asbract:

Having for the purpose of this debate estblished a common belief in good and evil, we must ask, if we would be good, what is it that we are required to do to be so? My answer is above all else Good must Oppose Evil by whatever just and honorable means at it's disposal. This also includes the option of overwhelming force. Consider the popular saying:
Edmund Burke wrote:"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
If inaction or refusal to oppose evil allows evil to triumph, then it cannot be good. Therefore actions taken to prevent, throw back or even destory evil must be in and of themselves Good, within reason. This must extend to violence used in the pursuit of stopping, throwing back or elminating evil. As Good has the duty to prevent the spread and victory of Evil.

To be more Concrete:

To bring this into a more practical and everyday light. You as a human being have certain rights and duties. One of those is to preserve not only your life but the lives of those humans around you who are not engaged in violent evil. To this end you not only have the right but the responibility to met violence with violence. To harm, maim, cripple or even kill, if it becomes necessary in the pursuit of Life, Liberity and Justice. This is not to say it should be your first response save in extreme cases, such as a strange man breaking into your home at night where your spouse and children sleep defendless.

It should go without saying that your use of violence will cause human suffering. If you harm, main or cripple the target of your actions will feel pain and will be hampered for a time, be that time the rest of his life. If you kill your target, his friends and family will suffer from the lack of his company (in theory at least but, one should remember even Nazi concenration camp guards had friends and family who loved them. This did not make them any less evil).

This fact should not deter you! In chosing to act in an evil manner, that is to threaten you without reason or merit, that person has thrown away such consideration. He has set himself up against you and your rights as a human being and you have both the right and responbility to defend them by whatever means necessary.

On the Actions of Governments:

Having considered if very breifly things on an individual scale, it falls upon us to move up to the scale of groups, soceities and above all Governments. What are the responiblities of a Government? A government is a burden upon it's people. It restricts their movement and actions with rules and laws. It takes a portion of their money and binds them as to what relations they may acceptably have and actions they may acceptably take on threat of punishment. It demands service, obedience and respect. The only reason to put up with government is that it is better then the alternative, which is to say archary or tribalism.
A Government, a good government so much as a government can be good, is one that provides for both the freedoms of it's people and their security against attack. It duties include protecting them against more predatory governments and the more predatory citizens of both the native soceity and others (this refers to foreign citizens that may seek to restrict or even harm native citizens without due cause, in either their own land or others). If it fails to do so, there is no reason for the citizens to willingly bear that government's burden, but that is a different subject.

Now it may come to past that in order to ensure these responbilities are met, a Government must do violence upon another government or people outside of it's normal authority. This is the act we call War. Not every type of war involves military force or even physical violence, but they all cause human suffering.

This should not deter us either! Those governments that seek to prey upon their own citizens, or the citizens of other governments have forfeited their right to exist and those citizens who support and fight for it are in effect in the commission of evil. Nationalism alone is not sufficent excuse for allowing evil men to run rough shod over or outright ignore the rights of human beings. If the opposing government is indeed preying upon human beings, we should consider that blocking it's ambitions at the very least or outright destorying it may lessen the amount of human suffering in the long term. In this I urge caution and forethought because not all situations are alike. It must also be that in destorying a people's government, be it evil or not, the destoryer has assumed responbility for those people and must treat their rights with all due consideration, taking the defense of their security and freedom as seriously as it does it's own native population. One should not destory a government no matter how evil it may be unless he is ready to take on this staggering responbility and is sure he can carry out. Otherwise he increases human suffering for no good end and does in itself evil.

I do not write this to take sides in any political debate or comment on any current action nor will I tell you the reader that you must support one government's actions or another. In that I ask you the reader not to infer a support that is not there. As this writing is meant to be a wider commentary not just for this time and place.

To Conclude:

It become necessary in the course of human events to resist evil by violence and brutal means. The Resistance of Evil is the Prime Duty of Good, be it good governments or good men. Anyone who declares that to resist evil is evil or that evil should not be resisted at all is at best deeply mistaken or misinformed. This does not make them evil, but it does mean they should be opposed least evil men and their works are allowed free reign over humanity.

Thank you for your time.

#2

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:30 pm
by Cynical Cat
I disagree with the Manicheistic phrasing, but I am in general accord with your argument.

#3

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:37 pm
by frigidmagi
I disagree with the Manicheistic phrasing
In all honesty I'm not sure what you mean.

#4

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:47 pm
by Cynical Cat
frigidmagi wrote:
I disagree with the Manicheistic phrasing
In all honesty I'm not sure what you mean.
Your emphasis on a black and white, good versus evil dichotomy. The real world tends to be more complicated and messy than that. There are some outcomes that are sufficiently repellent that violence is justified in resisting them, even if doing so means supporting a less than ideal faction or status quo.

#5

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:02 pm
by Josh
As occurs roughly seventy-five percent of the time, CC and I agree pretty much exactly.

My further caveat is this: to surrender the willingness and ability to perform violence simply leaves you at the mercy of those with the willingness and ability.

I'll take it a little further, as well. A pacifist is, at best, a useless burden upon society. Either they are honest and oppose all forms of violence, in which case they must by necessity be an anarchist, or they believe that they are personally above ever having to perform any violent acts and would defer such in all cases to those that they are willing to see the hands of sullied, in which case they're useless fucking hypocrites. The former I can at least give some credit to for consistancy of principle even if I find them foolish, the latter I find utterly useless and despicable.

#6

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:17 pm
by Cynical Cat
What do you know, the social democrat and the libertarian continue to degree. Liking peace, protesting for peace, and striving for peace are often good, commendable actions. Often, but not always. Absolute pacifism, on the other hand, is morally bankrupt.

#7

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:21 pm
by frigidmagi
As I've noted in venting I fully support the right of citizens to protest as a Constitutional right in the US. Even if their choice of tactics leaves me uncomfortable and unhappy.

I also hope I made it clear this isn't meant to be current political commentary.

#8

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:22 pm
by Josh
Cynical Cat wrote:What do you know, the social democrat and the libertarian continue to degree.
When we disagree, that's when FM usually has to jump in and tell us to put down the meat cleavers and return the gouged-out eyeballs.

Peace is quite often the best option. Point of fact, if both sides are rational actors it is almost always the best option. That said, we do not live in a rational world and are forced to resort to other means fairly regularly.

#9

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:25 pm
by Josh
frigidmagi wrote:As I've noted in venting I fully support the right of citizens to protest as a Constitutional right in the US. Even if their choice of tactics leaves me uncomfortable and unhappy.
The truest test of liberties is the liberty to disagree and to what extent it is allowed. I'm forced to agree with L. Neil Smith that curmudgeons are the mine canaries of societal freedoms, in a similar vein.

#10

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:28 pm
by Cynical Cat
Petrosjko wrote:
The truest test of liberties is the liberty to disagree and to what extent it is allowed. I'm forced to agree with L. Neil Smith that curmudgeons are the mine canaries of societal freedoms, in a similar vein.
Even screwballs are occasionally right.