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#1
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:56 pm
by frigidmagi
The one thing that constantly bothers me is where this 144,000 slots idea came from. It seems an act of utter sadism to spring that on your followers (Oh hey most of you have given up everything you ever had and have constranted yourselves to a ridiculous degree. For most of you it will be for nothing!) My default reaction is to blame John Calvin. Predestination my pale left ass cheek.
I'm sorry about Topa.
#2
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:06 pm
by Cpl Kendall
frigidmagi wrote:The one thing that constantly bothers me is where this 144,000 slots idea came from. It seems an act of utter sadism to spring that on your followers (Oh hey most of you have given up everything you ever had and have constranted yourselves to a ridiculous degree. For most of you it will be for nothing!) My default reaction is to blame John Calvin. Predestination my pale left ass cheek.
I'm sorry about Topa.
I had this discussion with my Catholic mother in law once (so take this with a large helping of salt) but apparently there is a passage in the bible that states 144,000 people get to go directly to heaven while the rest of us do some time in purgatory before getting in. And the JW's simply misinterpretated/twisted/flat out lied about the verse.
I haven't found it myself.
#3
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:54 pm
by frigidmagi
It's not there. There is no reference to Purgatory in the Bible. Nor is there any statement by anyone who would know that only 144,000 people are getting in.
#4
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:53 am
by Shark Bait
frigidmagi wrote:It's not there. There is no reference to Purgatory in the Bible. Nor is there any statement by anyone who would know that only 144,000 people are getting in.
link Yes i know its wikipedia... I'll look more into it when I'm not in physiology lab, once more its literal interpretation of vague text that should probably be taken with at least a grain of salt. Maybe I'm wrong but when I've had more than a few priests tell me don't read too much into revelations I'm not inclined to try and take it as 100% truth.
#5
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:47 am
by Cynical Cat
Christianity has the Holy Trinity and the Fucked up Trinity of Paul, Calvin, and Revelations.
#6
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:56 pm
by frigidmagi
Yeah but those are supposedly people selected to be witnesses, they're not the only ones getting into Heaven. What would be the point of that?
And Cat let's not hijack Maya's nice thread with dicussions about Calvin or Paul, if I get started we'll be here all day.
#7
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:53 pm
by Cynical Cat
frigidmagi wrote:Yeah but those are supposedly people selected to be witnesses, they're not the only ones getting into Heaven. What would be the point of that?
And Cat let's not hijack Maya's nice thread with dicussions about Calvin or Paul, if I get started we'll be here all day.
It was a reference in passing, not an attempt to start a hijack.
#8
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:19 am
by The Duchess of Zeon
frigidmagi wrote:It's not there. There is no reference to Purgatory in the Bible. Nor is there any statement by anyone who would know that only 144,000 people are getting in.
12,000 Jews from each of the twelve tribes of Israel will be righteous enough on the Day of Judgement to go to heaven without converting; all the rest will be damned to Hell. That is what is actually in the bible--that there will only be 144,000 people who followed the law well enough that they can get into heaven by the law alone. The number only applies to those who follow the law, not to those who believe in Jesus.
#9
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:31 pm
by frigidmagi
Expect it's considered to be figurative not literal. Hell there are even fundamentalist S. Baptist Fire and Brimstone screamers who say that.
#10
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:14 pm
by LadyTevar
Split from Maya's Storytime, so we can discuss further.
#11
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:26 pm
by Dark Silver
Moved because it's more of a Theology and Philosphy topic than Down Below.
#12
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:03 pm
by The Minx
Revelation states that the 144000 are the ones who will form the army of light in the war with the Antichrist, and once that war is won, they will experience the 1000 year rule of Jesus post Armageddon. During this time, Satan is bound in Hell.
Then Satan is released, he arrives with his new army and they surround the holy city; but a great fire comes out of heaven and ends the battle.
The New Jerusalem descends from heaven to replace the old, with YHWH aboard. The dead are resurrected and judged, and either tossed into the Lake of Fire along with Satan or let into the New Jerusalem, with the 144000 being the priests in the new world order.
In other words, Revelation explicitly says that the 144000 are NOT the only ones who will be resurrected. They are simply going to be the ones who are resurrected FIRST, witnessing all the above events and forming the upper class in the great hereafter. I really don't know where the JWs get the idea that they are going to be the only ones.
#13
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:18 pm
by The Minx
WOW, I just noticed that this thread is a month old.
Sorry.
#14
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:34 pm
by LadyTevar
Its ok, Minx... I'm glad someone found a good explaination.