LibriumArcana.Games

Flash-based guide to changes.

Surprising to me: WV had a 1% uptick in Catholics, 1% uptick in 'Other', 13% drop in 'Other Christian', and 7% increase in no religion.

Naturally, Louisiana is the only state with a significant "Other Christian" uptick. We really are the nation's asshole.

California and Oklahoma have the same percentage of reporting athiestists. Huh.

Naturally, Louisiana is the only state with a significant "Other Christian" uptick. We really are the nation's asshole.

I'll try not to take that personally.

frigidmagi wrote:I'll try not to take that personally.

Well that's kind of you Frigid, seeing as I wouldn't in your place. Hell, I'm taking that personally, and I'm an atheist.

frigidmagi wrote:California and Oklahoma have the same percentage of reporting athiestists. Huh.

Two things. One, it's reporting the change in percentage, not the actual percentage. Two, even if it weren't I don't imagine it's that much of a surprise with the huge influx of Catholic immigrants into California.

Two things. One, it's reporting the change in percentage, not the actual percentage. Two, even if it weren't I don't imagine it's that much of a surprise with the huge influx of Catholic immigrants into California.

I was figuring the number of middle to upper class shifting over to none would balance that out honestly. I mean call me crazy but California has a greater number of recruiting atheists then Oklahoma and it's easier to be one there.

What in the world is a "recruiting" Atheist?

General Havoc wrote:What in the world is a "recruiting" Atheist?

*Imagines an Athiest going door to door like a Mormon, chuckles to himself*

The "Other Religions" change in WV is due to a heavy influx of India/Pakastani immigrants. There's still less than 1% of total population, but that's a big change for the religion.

Charon wrote:

General Havoc wrote:What in the world is a "recruiting" Atheist?

*Imagines an Athiest going door to door like a Mormon, chuckles to himself*

Jehovah's Witnesses came by my place yesterday. I was too sleepy to mock them.

General Havoc wrote:What in the world is a "recruiting" Atheist?

We all are! We infect you with Atheism, and once your Noble Christian Defenses are down, we had you over to the Radical Gay Movement to indoctorine you into loving cock.

General Havoc wrote:What in the world is a "recruiting" Atheist?

Here in Calgary, we're not trying to 'recruit' atheists. We're just trying to bring them together and give them a voice.

The latest effort has been the success of getting a atheist ad on Calgary buses.

Hope to have pictures of it soon enough.

frigidmagi wrote:I mean call me crazy but California has a greater number of recruiting atheists then Oklahoma and it's easier to be one there.

I've met three atheists in my lifetime thus far, and none of them were the "recruiting" type. Mormons? Jehovah's Witnesses? Catholics? Sure. I've never met a "recruiter" for any other faith, or lack thereof.

And as far as the "its easier to be non-Xtian in CA," it really depends on where you are. In Downtown Sacramento, or even San Francisco? Sure. Roseville, or Los Angeles? Not even close.

My comment seems to have generated alot of excitement. I'll explain what I meant, since there seems to be alot of misunderstanding.

Keep in mind I am speaking strictly from my own experience here.

Now, no I am not claiming every atheist is a recruiter , or that every atheist organization is one. From what I've seen the majority of recruitment attempts happen in small social gatherings or on the internet, they are usually done by a single guy on his own initiative. The internet part shouldn't be any surprise to anyone. Everything happens on the internet and there is someone trying to recruit for everything on it. I'm sure most of you can point to at least one Myspace conversion attempt from one religion or another right? Why not after all? There's nothing to lose from attempting it over the internet exempt an hour or two of time. I don't think anyone on any side has had much success at this though.

Social gatherings. I've had number of these happen. I've noticed reasons don't seem change no matter what group you're coming from (I'm half tempted to think there is an Anthropology paper in this). From kids who just jumped on and want to share why he changed (Be it a new Christian, a new Buddhist or Atheist if you're dealing with an under 21 year old it's usually a list of negatives about his old group), to someone trying to give positive reasons why he is what he is and why you should be one to (another note, it's always almost a male, another temptation for a paper maybe).

For me a good number happened when I was living in California, course I was around LA and San Diego from what I saw those were fairly easy places to be an atheist, or a Wiccan or whatever. The overwhelming majority were young males from 19 to 25, college kids in the main. LA was more of a slave to trendiness though, you simply had to be part of whatever was the new trend of clothes, cars, party membership or even religion so y'all can decide for yourselves.

It's happened a few times in Arizona as well, but nowhere near as often. It has never happened to me at all in Oklahoma. Not even around the university where Dawkins spoke recently. So you can see why I'm a bit surprised.

Well, as an actual atheist myself along my other atheist friends, I'd point out we never really try to recruit anyone into becoming an atheist.

It's something you have to do on your own.

No, what we generally seem to do is point out the absurdity of specific belief systems using logic and reason. People can either accept the logic or ignore it, but I've personally never heard anyone say 'you should be an atheist'. Someone who's claims t obe an atheist simply because they were told to be one can't actually be an atheist.

Wasn't trying to refute you Frigid, just raising an eyebrow going "huh" in reply.

As for people who talk to you about it all zealot-like, they're typically like the others - they're insecure in their beliefs. They want to believe in their new toy, and if other people nod and go "uh-huh, that makes sense" when they talk, their new beliefs are validated a bit more (mostly this happens with guys; I've met only one or two women that do this). I've seen this with all sorts of non-Abrahamic (Christian/Jewish/Muslim) religious followers, such as Wiccans and Atheists.

I've met a few at different parties; most of them felt lost and adrift in their own lives, and were looking for something to help them feel like they had a lifeline. People like that just get defensive if you start tugging on what they consider their lifeline.

However, I have met one of the pushy sort, similar to the type you're describing, Frigid. He took "overzealous" to a whole new level, and almost immediately tried to make belief and faith a debate with me instead of a discussion.

heh.

I've been an Atheist my entire life, and I admit, there was a period when I was pretty pushy about it. I've since simmered down a bit.

Robert Walper wrote:Well, as an actual atheist myself along my other atheist friends, I'd point out we never really try to recruit anyone into becoming an atheist.

It's something you have to do on your own.

No, what we generally seem to do is point out the absurdity of specific belief systems using logic and reason. People can either accept the logic or ignore it, but I've personally never heard anyone say 'you should be an atheist'. Someone who's claims t obe an atheist simply because they were told to be one can't actually be an atheist.

:stupid:

Seriously...dude.

Let's say I tell you the reasoning I came to become a born again christian. I talk about the events and facts and feelings that I went through to come to my decision. I state everything as inviolate fact and operate under the supreme assumption that I am, in fact, right in my viewpoint.

Can't you see how this turns into a sales pitch very quickly? Might you not be just a slight bit uncomfortable if someone came up to you and started talking about that sort of thing?

Look, here's the deal, when you find out something new, you want to share it, that's natural. It's how information spreads. However, as I've learned over the years, sometimes people don't want to hear it, for whatever reason, and while they might be polite and not tell you to fuck off, believe me, they're thinking it.

I mean, if someone comes to you and asks, that's one thing, they're soliciting you for that information. Otherwise, let it shape your opinions, your actions, and your life, but let your actions speak for you, don't feel the need to give a speech about how your beliefs are somehow superior. You might just be wrong.

Hotfoot wrote:Seriously...dude.

Let's say I tell you the reasoning I came to become a born again christian. I talk about the events and facts and feelings that I went through to come to my decision. I state everything as inviolate fact and operate under the supreme assumption that I am, in fact, right in my viewpoint.

Can't you see how this turns into a sales pitch very quickly? Might you not be just a slight bit uncomfortable if someone came up to you and started talking about that sort of thing?

Definitely, except for the whole "going up to people and starting to talk about the issue" part. Atheism is a subject that only comes up when I'm asked or it's directly related to the subject at hand.

Frankly that's what the religious do; I have yet to meet an atheist who does the same thing. I'm sure there's examples of such, but every activity and meeting I've particpated in is about atheists getting together with others atheists, and publicly making it known that we're allowed to have a counter opinion. Discussion is inevitably generated, but it's always people coming to us, not the other way.

Look, here's the deal, when you find out something new, you want to share it, that's natural. It's how information spreads. However, as I've learned over the years, sometimes people don't want to hear it, for whatever reason, and while they might be polite and not tell you to fuck off, believe me, they're thinking it.

See above. Fellow atheists and myself know exactly what it's like to think "fuck off, I'm not interested in your shit". That's why we don't do it.

I mean, if someone comes to you and asks, that's one thing, they're soliciting you for that information. Otherwise, let it shape your opinions, your actions, and your life, but let your actions speak for you, don't feel the need to give a speech about how your beliefs are somehow superior. You might just be wrong.

Atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack of belief. Some atheists might 'believe god doesn't exist', but I'm not interested in their beliefs either.

Robert Walper wrote:Atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack of belief. Some atheists might 'believe god doesn't exist', but I'm not interested in their beliefs either.

Not so sure I agree with you on that one. Atheism in the contexts I've always used it or seen it used means "There is no God", not "There might not be a God" or "There's no way to know if there is a God" or "I don't care one way or another." All of those other philosophical positions have different terms for them, including but not limited to Agnostic.

Robert Walper wrote:Definitely, except for the whole "going up to people and starting to talk about the issue" part. Atheism is a subject that only comes up when I'm asked or it's directly related to the subject at hand.

Frankly that's what the religious do; I have yet to meet an atheist who does the same thing. I'm sure there's examples of such, but every activity and meeting I've particpated in is about atheists getting together with others atheists, and publicly making it known that we're allowed to have a counter opinion. Discussion is inevitably generated, but it's always people coming to us, not the other way.

What I'm saying is that there are times when people may want to talk about their beliefs without necessarily inviting the idea of opposing viewpoints. It's not unreasonable, and the way you put it made it sound like every time religion was brought up around you, you went into the standard "eager atheist" denouncement of religion, which I've seen a lot of.

Atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack of belief. Some atheists might 'believe god doesn't exist', but I'm not interested in their beliefs either.

That's right, Atheism is not a belief structure. But everyone has a belief structure underlying, and of course you've got the issue of everyone trying to lump atheists in one big old pot, which makes about as much sense as throwing every religious person into the same tent.

Havoc, you're right that, strictly speaking Atheism is the lack of a belief in a supernatural deity, or god, but the point here is that, within that, there is an entire spectrum of moral codes, belief structures, and so on.

Hotfoot wrote:What I'm saying is that there are times when people may want to talk about their beliefs without necessarily inviting the idea of opposing viewpoints. It's not unreasonable,

That IS unreasonable though. If you want to bring something up, especially a hot button issue like religion, then don't expect everyone else to sit quietly and listen to you espouse unchallenged. You might not want to invite heated debate, but not inviting an opposing viewpoint means you shouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place.

So it's okay to go into a tirade about the benefits of atheism when a co-worker makes a comment about how nice the Christmas Eve Service last night was? There are lines you just don't need to cross, and I commonly see what I like to term the "Angry Atheist Brigade" crossing them on a regular basis.

Hotfoot wrote:So it's okay to go into a tirade about the benefits of atheism when a co-worker makes a comment about how nice the Christmas Eve Service last night was?

Clearly that's out of line, but I believe Cleric's meaning was more if that if religion as a general subject is brought up that is not a blank cheque for the initiator to speak without about his beliefs without contradiction or argument from those with different beliefs.

Yes, this is me defending The Cleric. You might want to book mark it for future reference.

There are lines you just don't need to cross, and I commonly see what I like to term the "Angry Atheist Brigade" crossing them on a regular basis.

I've never encountered the "Angry Atheist Brigade", but since they would get nods of agreement from me on the subject of religion I'm sure that I have a blind spot in that area. Pushy Christians I encounter all the damn time. They come to my house and they push their religion on the street. Yes, the majority of them are Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, but other denominations engage in that behavior as well.