Author Feedback: General Havoc

[General Havoc]

You have my abject apologies, Speaker-to-Trolls, but after such a wondrous suggestion, I simply couldn't resist... ;)

Thank you so much for going through the (very considerable) effort to read this humble endeavor of mine. I hope it has proven to your liking so far.

[LadyTevar]

Holy Shit.

To say that was powerful is the ultimate understatement. Edge of seat, unable to look away, unable to stop reading.

Now how do you top it?

[frigidmagi]

Man I hope that isn't the end.

As for the Marines well done. It was a worthy death. At the end of the world that's the best you can hope for.

[rhoenix]

Excellently done, in many many ways - but I have to echo Tev with the question of "ok after that...what now?"

All I have to say is that it's been one hell of a ride so far, and I await the next installment.

[General Havoc]

:D Thanks guys. I'm really glad you liked this one. It was one of the hardest things I've ever written.

And no, the story does not end here, though I intentionally wrote it as though it might. There remains a couple aspects that have not been addressed, elements that I've laid the plans for, and with luck, you guys will like the result.

[frigidmagi]

That was well done.

Now to be honest I don't know if I agree with Cyborg on Warp. On the flip side if Warp has a time travel device still handy... Then well all bets are off. At this point though, why not gamble? The world is dead, there is nothing else to lose. That's why I wouldn't call the plan heroic, however the sheer courage shown by Cyborg is something to note.

The question does come up... How did Warp know about David? I'm assuming that if Warp hadn't acted David would have lived and died pretty much without actually doing anything that would get him into the history book... Wouldn't he?

One of the characters should really be asking where the hell are Ye Olde Forces of Light right about now. I mean an entire world just died and things have been set up for a universal Apocalypse. You think that would rate at least one damn angel or something.

[LadyTevar]

Angels don't always walk in the open. Sometimes, they're no more than a simple ray of hope...

Or an enemy that tells you just what you need to hear to get moving, while his minion brings back the ace-in-the- hole.

[frigidmagi]

That's an utter and complete cop out and doesn't fit the situation at all Tev. It would work if we were dealing with something sublte and hidden but this is as open and overt has you get.

The Devil is walking on Earth, the universe is in danger of dying. This isn't a moment for rays of hope or nudges. Now Havoc has told me that there will be an explanation and I might not like it or agree. That's fine and I'm willing to wait til then.

[LadyTevar]

In the "Original Timeline" there were no angelic saviors either, just Slade helping Robin fetch Raven.

Of course, if what's left of Raven can count as "Angelic"... *shrug*

[rhoenix]

Actually, this makes me think Trigon simply took care of the good guys first. After all, good guys usually do stupid shit like relax and enjoy life in their off time, so Trigon might've simply taken all of them out one by one much as he has previous worlds, from the allusions made.

"Call it what you will -
a revelation from god, or the curse of the demon king.
The fact remains that our world came to an end.

A heretic called upon an unearthly light, and devastation answered.
Chaos crawled out of the depths of the ocean, from the black abyss.

Death upon death... Nothing but death in this barren land.
Who can we pray to? There are only demons and fiends here.

A voice in the dark beguiles me,
'Truth is a mystery, unraveled by the candles' flames.'"

Its from the intro to a favorite game of mine, but it seemed appropriate. Well done, Havoc.

[frigidmagi]

In the "Original Timeline" there were no angelic saviors either, just Slade helping Robin fetch Raven.

In original timeline Evil did not triumph to the point of destroying the whole world. If mortals are enough to check evil then the forces of light should not move, their whole point is to preserve our freedom of choice and will. But this isn't the case here is it?

Also there's more at stake here then a single blue, white and green planet at the edge of the galaxy. Thanks to Warp bringing in David (by the way Warp, thanks for wiping out our entire species in a fit of petty spite, jackass) the whole universe is in danger. Basically life itself is at stake. At this point I feel asking why light is not committing equal forces is valid. No pressure Havoc.

[General Havoc]

This story, in the end, is not about God.

It's not about Trigon either, though he plays a role in it. It is not about theology and the nature, location, motivations, existence, or non-existence of heavenly host. I say that it is not about these things not as a cop-out, but as a kindness, for the alternative is to point out upfront that in this story, the world came to an end, and God did not intervene to stop it. What does that say? If the world ended, and God did not act to save it, then either there is no God, or there is a God and He chose not to act, or there is a God and He chose to act but was prevented from doing so, or there is a God and He chose to act indirectly.

The fourth option, you believe, is a cop out, and you are correct to a point. The third option is illogical (God, by definition, can do anything). The second option is the same cop out as the fourth, whatever His reasons, with the added connotation of an evil or uncaring God. The first option is simply Atheistic.

I can choose one of those four options, but what I cannot do is choose the fifth option, that of God actually intervening physically on the planet. A Deus Ex Machina (literal in this case) is only permissible when the focus of the story is on God, and in this case it is not. This story is about many things, including faith, choice, and redemption. While I do not believe in God, several of my characters do, and they will be asking the very same question that you have asked, overtly or not. To look to God, however, for overt solution deprecates the characters themselves, and renders them moot. This is their story, not God's, and to bring the Angels or whoever into it not only binds me with theology, but reduces the characters to venerators and observers. It does not empower them, but strips their actions of all meaning or relevance. It does not permit them to be heroic or cowardly on their own merits.

In the original story, as Tev mentioned, the world ended, Trigon rose, the planet was reduced to cinders and ash, and yet the Forces of Light did not come. We can specify reasons for why they did not come, or dismiss them as non-existent, or use backstory to explain their absence, or ignore the topic altogether, but we cannot get around the fact that they did not show up. In this story, the situation is different, with Devastator and Warp and all of the other alterations that they have made, and yet as before, the Forces of Light did not come. As I mentioned before, there are many possible reasons why they did not, but if you are seeking their presence, then any explanation as to why they didn't come risks falling flat. At risk of presenting spoilers, the "Forces of Light" (so to speak) are not here, and they are not coming.

I did promise you an explanation for why the Forces of Light are not here, Frigid, and I am not so crass as to reduce simply it to one of the examples I gave above. I may be an atheist, but I am also quite well versed in matters theological, and while God is not one of the subjects of my story, Faith is, and Sacrifice, and other things that belief speaks to. I did also promise you, as you noted, that you would not like the answer, and you will not. The answer I have will serve my purposes in telling this story, as does everything else within it. More than that I cannot yet say

But thanks everyone, for reading it as always, and I will mention that the questions Frigid has asked here are more important than anyone realizes, including the bit concerning the Forces of Light, not not only that. Though we are nearing the endgame here, there is yet more to tell. I just hope you like the results, even if some of the answers are not the ones you want

[speaker-to-trolls]

Have just recently read the last two chapters, exceptional as always.
I have to say your version of Slade is particularly good and menacing, exemplified in the last chapter where he reduces Beastboy and Starfire from furious wrath to numbed shock just by explaining the situation.

Also clever use of Warp in making the different course of events in this story make sense, though you've got some explaining to do as to why Warp is no longer a baby in the year 2025, and why he knew about David.

I agree with your logic in not having the Forces of Light intervene directly, even if might not make any sense assuming that there is a God around who fits most of our preconceptions.

Looking forward to the next chapter very much, things will come to a head, the dead will return to life and Warp will hopefully receive the royal Tamarranean beating he has coming to him.

[rhoenix]

It would appear that Havoc's story managed to attract some attention from TVTropes.org (scroll to the bottom):

The Measure of a Titan By General Havoc

* Recommended by Sal Fish Fin
* Synopsis: A rehash of season 4 with an OC who joins the group for protection against Cinderblock.
* Comments: I'm not going to spoil you by telling you everything about the story. Just know that David Foster is one of the most interesting OC's in the history of fanfiction. His interactions with the Titans are believable and insightful, and the entire fic is filled to the brim, from start, to near-finish, with action, suspense, and a tiny bit of Chris Carter Syndrome and Jigsaw Puzzle Plot that actually works well.

I could not agree more.

[rhoenix]

Holy shit.

It takes a writer with rare skill to use the same disquieting imagine to surprise the reader with a figurative punch in the gut, let alone do so twice within a few moments, and as a cliffhanger.

This chapter was well worth the wait. I can only barely imagine what the next might have in store.

[frigidmagi]

Holy Fucking Shit. I could not have read that right. Could I? The ultimate heavy of this piece is... David? What the hell?

But he can't be working for Trigon, because if he was then Trigon would already have Devastator and wouldn't have needed to hunt down our David (let's refer to him as DavidA for now).

Trigon needed DavidA for the power of Devastator. Evil David has the power of Devastator. Trigon has been shown having no problems with lying and betraying. So if Trigon had Evil David why wouldn't he simply rip Devastator out and eat Evil David whole? I mean really what can Evil David offer?

On the flip side if Evil David isn't working for Trigon and has Devastator... How the fuck did he get back to confront DavidA?

I think I just gave myself whiplash.

[LadyTevar]

He ripped Devastator out of David... and gave him his own 'life', without need for a host.

Holy shit. no wonder it took this long for you to post this.

[LadyTevar]

Took you long enough, but very much worth the wait.

[frigidmagi]

I finished reading this Sunday night and I've needed time to digest...

Damn Dude. You went all out in this chapter

The revelation of Warp's motivation leaves me questioning his sanity. So to avenge your family, you'll travel back in time to an alternate history. Ensure that their killer will become so enmeshed with them so as to never raise a hand against them. Engineer and take part in not only the violent murder of one of them, but selling out your entire world and species to the DEVIL HIMSELF! To get back at an energy being who didn't do anything but give power to an orphaned boy. Someone failed ALL HIS DAMN SANITY ROLLS! For the record, I think even Superman himself would rip off his head now. I would be content with stabbing or shooting him to death. I think betrayal of all that exists to Ye Forces of Darkness merits that level of punishment.

The Old David character is hard to pin down, which I think you meant him to be. I get why he did what he did, but I'm not really sure what he was doing before that. Did he have any moral limits? I mean he seems to at least use morals to justify his actions... Or was it anything in the name of the cash? Which fits in with what he said to... I can only imagine there are whole sectors of civilizations before that day that were devoted to finding a way to kill him.

Beast Boy's quest is well done, I like how both the hell of Paradise Lost (a plain of fire and brimstone) and Dante's Inferno (multi-layered with punishment fitting the crime) fit in and work together. Slade and Beast Boy's read believably. Kudos for that.

Amazingly... We're still not done yet.

[rhoenix]

*deep breath*

And thus, the pieces fall, one by one.

I regret that I was unable to give this chapter my attention until my own was finished, especially at the imagery here.

Havoc, we spoke more than once about Adult David's motivations, his personality, and who he is at heart - and it is indeed David. The sheer familiarity makes it all the more horrifying, especially when he began his talk with David & Terra, and gave a small demonstration as to the raw power held in gasses.

Warp... is a very special and damaged case. Doubly obsessed, lest losing his obsession force the rest of his shreds of sanity to leave as well - he is a disquietingly tragic figure. He's a figure so enmeshed in horror, pain, and death, that he cannot conceive of anything else any longer. He is a sad epitaph to the story, even before the final pages are even smoothed out for inking.

Beast Boy and Slade made a very unlikely duo, but their scenes here were excellent. When they gave way to Beast Boy coming face to face with himself, and a Raven he would be even more inclined to feel protective of... this is going to end in tears.

Lastly, about a very exhausted David meeting... himself back in his TT costume and calling himself "Devastator", well. Even a grandmother clicking a web link for a cookie recipe and seeing the goatse hello.jpg picture come up would be an insufficient amount of surprise here.

As a small note, I wanted to come back to the scene with Adult David, young David, and Terra. His response of nonchalantly demolishing a building in response to her words was some of the best non-verbal cues I've seen yet, since it said what words could not at that scene.

In short - bravo, Havoc, and I look forward to the next one with as much patience as I can muster. As always, your writing challenges me to elevate mine.

[LadyTevar]

YES YES YES!! FANTASTIC!

This needs to be shifted over to SDNet asap

[frigidmagi]

Boys and girls we have a rally, let's hope they can keep it going.

Warp is now alone with Starfire. After having killed Robin and forcing her to wipe out two images of Robin. This is not going to be a good day for him, which is a shame I suppose since it's his last day, but Karma is a bitch for traitors of all life isn't it?

It is a pity that no one will confront with with the sheer depths of insanity and idiocy that was his plan. His "Justice" involved the destruction of billions and the eventual doom of trillions if not zillions or numbers more then I can easily conceive. What the Fuck Warp? The Irony is I could see myself being sympethic to Warp if he had chosen another avenue or plan. Good job there Havoc.

That said if the death penalty does not fit Warp's crimes I don't know what does.

At the same time Trigon as made a mistake, or maybe Devastator has pulled off a coup right under Trigon's nose. David has grown up. It was a long path for the boy but he got there and that's all that matters.

I liked Cyborg's standing up moment, it was well done I think. Beast Boy should be interesting next chapter.

[LadyTevar]

WOOOHOO! Bolo story Lives!!!

[White Haven]

Tev? I'm not Havoc. :)

[General Havoc]

This one'll be updated in hopefully a few days. I've been smacked up with life issues.