LibriumArcana.Games

Posted: **Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:18 pm**

Jesus Family Tomb Believed Found
Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News

Feb. 25, 2007 — New scientific evidence, including DNA analysis conducted at one of the world's foremost molecular genetics laboratories, as well as studies by leading scholars, suggests a 2,000-year-old Jerusalem tomb could have once held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth and his family.

The findings also suggest that Jesus and Mary Magdalene might have produced a son named Judah.

The DNA findings, alongside statistical conclusions made about the artifacts — originally excavated in 1980 — open a potentially significant chapter in Biblical archaeological history.

A documentary presenting the evidence, "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," will premiere on the Discovery Channel on March 4 at 9 p.m. ET/PT. The documentary comes from executive producer James Cameron and director Simcha Jacobovici.

Much interesting. Such discoveries can give us better picture of the 'Historical Jesus', especially now they have analyzed their DNA. It seems we'll get to know better with the most famous guy throughout centuries.

Posted: **Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:53 pm**

Thing that gets me how do they know it's "the" Jesus?

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:04 am**

Um, you missed Page Two:

Statistical Data

A possible argument against the Talpiot Tomb being the Jesus Family Tomb is that the collection of names on the ossuary inscriptions could be coincidental.

But Andrey Feuerverger, professor of statistics and mathematics at the University of Toronto, recently conducted a study addressing the probabilities that will soon be published in a leading statistical journal.

Feuerverger multiplied the instances that each name appeared during the tomb's time period with the instances of every other name. He initially found "Jesus Son of Joseph" appeared once out of 190 times, Mariamne appeared once out of 160 times and so on.

To be conservative, he next divided the resulting numbers by 25 percent, a statistical standard, and further divided the results by 1,000 to attempt to account for all tombs — even those that have not been uncovered — that could have existed in first century Jerusalem.

The study concludes that the odds are at least 600 to 1 in favor of the Talpiot Tomb being the Jesus Family Tomb. In other words, the conclusion works 599 times out of 600.

Again, it's so much interesting. Whether we like it or not, Jesus is arguably the most famous person in the history. Alas, explanations surrounding him are mostly myths and mystery. However, if we can safely conclude that the tomb indeed belongs to *that* Jesus, and we can extract Jesus DNA accordingly, then it could provide many interesting explanations. For instance, is Jesus hair really blond like typically depicted? What Jesus really looked like? (they already have reconstructed the looks of Tutankhamun) Etc, etc.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:23 am**

1: I didn't miss it you forgot to post it.

2: I have never seen a depiction of Jesus with blonde hair outside of parody. Jesus is usually shown with brown hair.

3: I'm requiring alot more proof then math games and I gotta feeling alot of others are going to as well. "Jesus bones" have been found before. For you this may be nothing special for me and others this is the most speclator claim a man could make and he better have some damn hard evidence. As it stands, I do not believe Mr. Cameron is lying or trying to play a fast one and I'm sure he'll take what steps are needed to cover the variables.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:37 am**

frigidmagi wrote:1: I didn't miss it you forgot to post it.

Well it's on the page 2 of the article, but it ain't that important now because I have linked the page 2 as well.

frigidmagi wrote:2: I have never seen a depiction of Jesus with blonde hair outside of parody. Jesus is usually shown with brown hair.

I was talking about examples. The point is that Jesus is probably the most famous character --even in pop culture and parody. Of course, such discovery is interesting IMO.

frigidmagi wrote:3: I'm requiring alot more proof then math games and I gotta feeling alot of others are going to as well. "Jesus bones" have been found before.

It's called 'statistics' and it's used to measure how probable the hypothesized claim is. Of course there's no way in hell we can be sure that the tomb is absolutely 100% that of Jesus, but 599 times out of 600 seems good enough to me.

frigidmagi wrote:and I'm sure he'll take what steps are needed to cover the variables.

Wait now, I believe you just made an 'appeal to motives' fallacy here.

To be frank, I too, believe that Cameron is a sensation-hunter. However, it is the argument itself that needs to be dissected, not Cameron's reps.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:09 am**

Wait now, I believe you just made an 'appeal to motives' fallacy here.

Wait now, I believe you failed to actually read my line.

As it stands, I do not believe Mr. Cameron is lying or trying to play a fast one and I'm sure he'll take what steps are needed to cover the variables.

Or in other words I specifically said I do not believe Mr. Cameron is interested in anything but the truth. Perhaps KAN you should pay more attention to what I actually say. So no I did not appeal to motives or any such bullshit. I accorded Mr. Cameron full benefit and belief that he will not willingly lie to me of actual phyiscal evidence of his discovery (I'm told someone else actually dug it up do we have a name on that?) In the future KAN I would appreaciate if you did not subscirbe base motives to me. I feel I've earned that.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:14 am**

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote: Much interesting. Such discoveries can give us better picture of the 'Historical Jesus', especially now they have analyzed their DNA. It seems we'll get to know better with the most famous guy throughout centuries.

I'm gonna call it as not him for now. They faked it once, I have no particular reason to think Mr. Cameron and his fellows have not been hoodwinked. Though the results of the DNA test will be interesting.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:18 am**

How would they do a DNA test without a sample? They have nothing to test against.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:19 am**

frigidmagi wrote:Or in other words I specifically said I do not believe Mr. Cameron is interested in anything but the truth. Perhaps KAN you should pay more attention to what I actually say. So no I did not appeal to motives or any such bullshit. I accorded Mr. Cameron full benefit and belief that he will not willingly lie to me of actual phyiscal evidence of his discovery (I'm told someone else actually dug it up do we have a name on that?) In the future KAN I would appreaciate if you did not subscirbe base motives to me. I feel I've earned that.

Okay, I misread it. Sorry.

EDIT: Actually I read so many personal attacks again Cameron according to the article, probably that was the reason why I mistakenly thought you did the same.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:20 am**

Who the fuck are they going to compare this corpse's DNA to to establish that he is "Jesus"? We don't even have enough evidence to prove that Jesus definitively existed, let alone what his DNA would be like.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:29 am**

In blunt honesty KAN this is the first I've ever really heard of him and as such I feel he should be accorded the benefit of the doubt if nothing else.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:33 am**

frigidmagi wrote:In blunt honesty KAN this is the first I've ever really heard of him

I know. But man, you really needs to see the blog. There are still several other articles attacking Cameron, which is mostly attack him based on reputations.

Alright, now I'm getting dizzy. Also partially because I'm simultaneously having a debate on HOTU forum about this topic as well.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:36 am**

Alright this is the same Cameron who did Terminator and Titanic Cat tells me. While I still intend to accord him the full benefit of the doubt and do not believe he'll lie. I honestly would feel better if a sciencist were in charge you know?

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:51 am**

frigidmagi wrote:I honestly would feel better if a sciencist were in charge you know?

Agree. That's why it's the statistical research that interests me more. Too bad the news page doesn't have the link that points to Andrey Feuerverger's papers.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:54 am**

I really do hope to see the statistical modelling that has them so confident. For one, I can at least find it they're bullshitting. Two, even if this is a hoax, if the models are accurate, it can lead to more insight.

Posted: **Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:03 am**

It doesn't have to be a hoax for them to be wrong. There was a big to do in North American archeology last year regarding evidence of pre-Clovis tools and perhaps noted and respected archeologists seeing what they wanted to see rather than what was actually there. That's with professionals, knowing they are going to be under the spot light of peer review, on a subject that won't get the popular media spot light or big dollars. One can easily see how one might jump to thinly supported conclusions and discover "Jesus", only to find the ground under one's feet turn to sand.

I would advise everyone to sit back, crack a cold whatever it is they drink, and watch the show without jumping to conclusions too quickly. We'll find out if we have the Second Coming of Cold Fusion soon enough.

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