Prison Planets

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:07 am

To second Hotfoot: This is a forum discussing science fiction. As in fiction with a basis in science. All discussions in this forum should take science seriously.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:44 pm

I dunno what SirNitram meant by air, but by air I mean a mix of nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide. Sure, that mix may be the result of plantlife here, but I think it's a little too early in, um, you know, our experience with early planetary formation and interstellar surveying to be sure you can't get those gases in a reasonable mix some other way. "If Plants, Then Air" isn't the same argument as "If Air, Then Plants".

To reinforce the point, the only way that any breathable atmosphere will continue to exist is if it is maintained. If there are humans on that planet, the oxygen will become depleted unless there are several times their biomass in photosynthetic organisms converting Co2 into O2 at a constant or near constant rate.

Also, the chances of a breathable atmosphere forming without plants is fairly low, just because of what planets are made from. Even if it were comprised of the same substances, it would still need to be adjusted for humans to be able to breath it.

Or, more succintly: A sample set of one isn't the bet possible source of data for making assumptions about the rest of the universe.

if you are dealing with a planet which is livable, one which has the potential to support life, there are only so many ways it could have developed. It would need to be made from roughly the same materials, and would have formed in a similar fashion to earth.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:51 pm

To clear up a question on the methodology of science fiction debate, here is an excellent essay on the approach that many board members take to analysis of such topics-

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Ess ... lysis.html

Those of us who came over from SDN were schooled in the Suspension of Disbelief methodology of analysis.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:03 pm

The factors to maintain an O2 rich enviroment(AKA, one hospitable to human life) are matters of chemistry, easily derivable and demonstratable. Moreover, the balance to maintain enough O2 to support human life but not spark global firestorms is rather fragile when one is thinking on stellar or galactic scales, so there's a limit on methods for your theoretical, navel-gazing 'random' occourances.

More to the point, a barren rock with O2 will deplete. To be a long-term prison colony, you must be able to sustain that O2. The easiest way is large amounts of photosynth biomass. Much like how it's always cheaper to go down the street to the chemist no matter what techlevel you have, than going interstellar, it will always be cheaper to seed plants and let them do their thing than use an active system. Worse, an active system requires maintenence.

Of course, we could just rely on our existing knowledge of a working Earth-type ecosystem and remember O2 rich wasn't even a possibility until several generations of lifeform had come and gone. But that'd require knowing what the fuck you're on about.

See, this is the problem. People who whine about 'Why do you take it so seriously?!?!' aren't any more reasonable, they're just fucking dumbasses who're upset because they can't keep up. Of course, there's also trolling dipshit borgwankers who are physically incapable of learning, but those're another issue for another day.

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:52 pm

SirNitram wrote: See, this is the problem. People who whine about 'Why do you take it so seriously?!?!' aren't any more reasonable, they're just fucking dumbasses who're upset because they can't keep up. Of course, there's also trolling dipshit borgwankers who are physically incapable of learning, but those're another issue for another day.

Nitram, this isn't SD.net. Your restraint on flaming would be appreciated. Thank you.

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:02 am

Nitram's complaining kicked to Down Below.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:05 pm

I interupt your regular thread for the following links because someone can't be bothered to keep up with all to fucking recent history and it has been brought up in this thread and should be given some clarification. Read close those of you who don't fucking know what happened in Somalia.

Lessons learned from Somli

Somli, WTF happened?

Now go watch Blackhawk Down! Or learn to keep up with the fucking world!

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:17 pm

Fima's commentary flushed to DB.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:23 pm

frigidmagi wrote:I interupt your regular thread for the following links because someone can't be bothered to keep up with all to fucking recent history and it has been brought up in this thread and should be given some clarification. Read close those of you who don't fucking know what happened in Somalia.

Lessons learned from Somli

Somli, WTF happened?

Now go watch Blackhawk Down! Or learn to keep up with the fucking world!

And just who are you dictate what movies a person should watch or what historical events a person should pay attention to, frigid?

Your provided links are useful. Your whining about a person not being familiar with said info is not.

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:34 pm

Robert Walper wrote: And just who are you dictate what movies a person should watch or what historical events a person should pay attention to, frigid?

Your provided links are useful. Your whining about a person not being familiar with said info is not.

It's relevant to the points of extracting prisoners from said prison planet, a critique of your plan that has been raised before. And frigid was nice enough to provide links full of information about his point, which you have yet to counter.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:42 pm

Cynical Cat wrote:
Robert Walper wrote: And just who are you dictate what movies a person should watch or what historical events a person should pay attention to, frigid?

Your provided links are useful. Your whining about a person not being familiar with said info is not.
It's relevant to the points of extracting prisoners from said prison planet, a critique of your plan that has been raised before. And frigid was nice enough to provide links full of information about his point, which you have yet to counter.

Providing the links was useful. Expecting everyone to be familiar with historical interests he has is not.

And countering the point is no longer necessary, since I dropped the free roaming prisoner planet concept.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:12 pm

It happened in the fucking 90s Walper, it dominated the news for over a month. This happened in your lifetime and it drew more than it's fair share of attention. And the fact you're Canadain doesn't cut you slack either, not when Australians can grasp what the fuck I'm talking about. Course if there had been a damn Borg involved you would have gotten it instantly wouldn't ya?

I'm not asking you to grasp the facts of the American Revolution, I'm asking you to able to remember major world events that took place in your own damn lifetime, sometime that most people would consider vital in being a logical, rational person.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:19 pm

frigidmagi wrote:It happened in the fucking 90s Walper, it dominated the news for over a month. This happened in your lifetime and it drew more than it's fair share of attention. And the fact you're Canadain doesn't cut you slack either, not when Australians can grasp what the fuck I'm talking about. Course if there had been a damn Borg involved you would have gotten it instantly wouldn't ya?

*cough*

Petrosjko wrote: And if the Borg aren't the topic at hand, then don't introduce them, gentlemen. We can flame happily among ourselves, but keep it relevant to the topic.

In other words, quit bringing up unrelated science fiction shit just because I like it. I'm growing weary of yours and others attempts to bring up this subject that doesn't have a thing to do with the topic at hand.

Yes, I like the Borg. Who gives a flying fuck? And to think you were one to preach about staying on topic.

I'm not asking you to grasp the facts of the American Revolution, I'm asking you to able to remember major world events that took place in your own damn lifetime, sometime that most people would consider vital in being a logical, rational person.

Considering the events in question happened when I was a kid concerned with much different things, and didn't pay much attention to the news, I fail to see your point. Unless you think historical interest somehow equates to intelligence rather than preference.

Furthermore your continued whining is straying into a threadjack. You provided links to the Somalia incident when I pointed out I'm unfamiliar with it. It should've ended there, but no, you had to pull a hissy fit whining how 'everyone should know about it' and how I'm a 'borg fanatic'.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:34 pm

Walper this is on topic, you made your ignorence a part of the topic when you refused to correct it. I didn't say everyone should know it I said you should know it and I gave my reasons. I'm not much older than you and I remember it, not read it in a fucking book, but remembered it.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:47 pm

frigidmagi wrote:Walper this is on topic, you made your ignorence a part of the topic when you refused to correct it.

My ignorance on historical events, which frankly I'm not all that particularily interested in, is not part of the topic. The ability to cite an example or information someone is not familiar with does not change the topic at hand. Furthermore the point is irrelevent since I dropped the free roaming prisoners concept several pages ago.

I didn't say everyone should know it I said you should know it and I gave my reasons. I'm not much older than you and I remember it, not read it in a fucking book, but remembered it.

Well, I don't. And frankly the differences between what I remember and what you do are irrelevent. I'll generously assume you're finished whining about our differences in memory and knowledge, freeing posters to get back to the actual topic at hand.

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:51 pm

That's enough people. Walper's conceded the relevant point and nothing but flames will come of this track.

LibriumArcana.Games

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