River vs Cleric John Preston

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Thu May 11, 2006 2:27 am

Okay, River from the movie Serenity or John Preston from Equilibrium, swords, who gets sliced and diced and who goes home for a party.

Other crew members from the Serenity may not intervene, nor can other clerics, this is one on one.

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Thu May 11, 2006 3:11 am

Preston. River is good, but Preston has wanktastic gun kata on his side as well as being more inclined to use weapons.

Post by **B4UTRUST** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:59 am

Lets here it for Tetragramaton training

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:12 am

How exactly do you analyse the fighting abilities of each combatant?

Preston uses a particular type of sword style that's peculiar to say the least. Does anyone know anything about it?

As for River, doesn't she also have psionic abilities which can tip the balance? Again, does anyone know anything about that? And she's wielding a sword, but does she have the same level of training/knowledge that Preston has? She can pick up a gun and headshot three guys with a glance, but guns are different to swords (different movements, hand-eye coordination is important to both but swords rely heavily on correct footwork and posture).

Or is this a thread for "Which is really cooler" and based on what people like rather than anything objective? If that's the case, I declare Cleric John Preston to be the winner. Christian Bale is cooler than Summer Glau.

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:30 am

Preston can kill lots of gun armed guys at really close range without getting hit himself and go to town with a sword.

River's abilities are more realistic and seem to involve being good with weapons and excellent hand to hand. There wasn't much doubt the Alliance troopers that burst in at the end of her having killed the Reavers could have taken her, but Preston kills a whole mess of similar troopers in a similar situation when he goes after the big cheese at the end.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:39 am

What I mean was Preston uses an inverted sword grip that seems to confer benefits over the conventional method of holding a sword. I was wondering if there was anything to that, beyond looking 'kewl' - I'm hoping Preston's reverse-sword grip is not like the John Woo School of Gun Wielding.

I dimly recall the Director speaking about it in a commentary, how it's based on a Japanese swordmaster that was indomitable in combat or some other such fluff.

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:44 am

Stofsk wrote:What I mean was Preston uses an inverted sword grip that seems to confer benefits over the conventional method of holding a sword. I was wondering if there was anything to that, beyond looking 'kewl' - I'm hoping Preston's reverse-sword grip is not like the John Woo School of Gun Wielding.

I'm not a big fan of Equilibrium, it was a fun movie to watch but the gun kata, while a cool idea, was ridiculus. Still, he does kill groups of heavily armed guys in close range gun battles, which makes me favor him.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » Thu May 11, 2006 6:10 am

This isn't about gun fighting though, this is about swords.

And on that note, River made three headshots with a split second glance IIRC, while Preston dual-wields machine pistols and sprays them all over the place. When you can pump out a lot of lead with each pull of the trigger, you're bound to hit something.

The Village Idiot · Post by **The Village Idiot** » Thu May 11, 2006 6:39 am

I just remeber the pile of bodies surounding river at the end of Serenity. I also recall the piles of bodies preston makes.....but for one on one sword to sword I personally give the win to River. The gun kata training of the Tetragramaton training is based for gun to gun combat. And the sword combat preston used was, not a gun kata style (there isnt one), against another sword STYLE which inherantly has identifiable weaknesses that other styles take advantage of....Rivers "style" is not one that is really taught, more an improved effectivenes, meeting a little psionic ability.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Thu May 11, 2006 2:54 pm

I am going to have to go with river. She has telepathic abilities, and thus, a s
sort of precognisciece (it stands to reason that she could pick up on his moevements) she is a trained assassin. Even if the training was done in dreams and the like. She resisted indoctrination, but she did not resist the conditioning.

She was able to defeat dozens of not hundreds of opponents in close quarters, effortlessly.

SHe is more physically flexible than John as well, probably faster, has better coordination (he missed occassionally, as far as we know, she never has)

Shark Bait · Post by **Shark Bait** » Thu May 11, 2006 6:42 pm

gonna have to go with John, river has to first be goaded into fighting espeically for a big fight, and then she appeared to be working off raw emotion. Where as John stays in complete control and is trained to deal with people using emotion to fight.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:32 pm

That's just it. In vs. debates we always assume that they are fighting at full capacity. And she showed an amazing amount of control when spanking those..hundreds...of reavers

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:36 pm

Preston. He has the ability to analyze while relying on training and reflex to hold the battle still, until he can work it to his advantage. River has more raw talent, but it's unfocused. With Tetragrammaton training, River would kick the crap out of Preston, but for now, he'd take her in a straight one-on-one.

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:53 pm

Preston also has a height, reach, and strength advantage.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:42 am

Cynical Cat wrote:Preston also has a height, reach, and strength advantage.

Not to mention vastly more combat experience to draw upon.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:24 am

Cynical Cat wrote:Preston also has a height, reach, and strength advantage.

But little girls can still be fighters... look at Buffy.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:51 pm

Stofsk wrote:
Cynical Cat wrote:Preston also has a height, reach, and strength advantage.
But little girls can still be fighters... look at Buffy.

Who also got a shitload of combat XP and was dealing with, let's face it, less-than-stellar opponents.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Sun May 14, 2006 12:49 am

Just a quick note, River did not fight hundreds of Reavers, she fought maybe 2 dozen or so.

Post by **B4UTRUST** » Sun May 14, 2006 12:54 am

After watching both movies again this weekend, my conclusion is still the same.

Preston wins. Be it with swords or guns, he is the superior fighter. Better trained, more experiance, he is the man.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » Fri May 26, 2006 12:02 pm

Preston killed like a million Clerics, people of similar caliber as him, in a blink of an eye. And they were surrounding him. And he had to borrow his weapon from one of them.

And what he did to his partner afterwards, that was wank. His sword had only a drop of blood on it!

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » Sun May 28, 2006 6:36 pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Preston killed like a million Clerics, people of similar caliber as him, in a blink of an eye. And they were surrounding him. And he had to borrow his weapon from one of them.

Um, not really. The only cleric on cleric action we see the whole movie was with Preston and his partners (and of course, the big guy). The other guys were just schlubs that support the clerics. They are nowhere near the skill level he was.

And what he did to his partner afterwards, that was wank. His sword had only a drop of blood on it!

...It's wank because it only had a drop of blood on it? I fail to see how that makes it wank.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:01 am

Well, it was awesome! And, yeah. The dude's head should've exploded into an explosion of blood and gore and brains and bone and flesh, but instead, was neatly cleaned without even the slightest of bloodshed. I don't know how or why. Well, it might not be wank. But it was awesome! When I grow up, I want to slice people's faces off with a samurai sword without getting my shit wet.

Oh, and those million clerics surrounding him at Father's office, if they weren't the best, why were they the ones personally guarding Father?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:33 am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Well, it was awesome! And, yeah. The dude's head should've exploded into an explosion of blood and gore and brains and bone and flesh, but instead, was neatly cleaned without even the slightest of bloodshed. I don't know how or why. Well, it might not be wank. But it was awesome! When I grow up, I want to slice people's faces off with a samurai sword without getting my shit wet.

Oh, and those million clerics surrounding him at Father's office, if they weren't the best, why were they the ones personally guarding Father?

My hatred now knows no bounds. I shall reach from torment unending and let loose the screams of the uncounted damned who seek nothing more than the company of their own kind, the unholy who will seek and corrupt even the most virtuous of men into twisted wrecks of beings no longer fit to bear the title of human beings. On this day, they shall seek revenge on the one new source of their pain, and the skies will scream with the blood of the newborn dead. All who hear this sound shall prostrate themselves before their new dark lords, rending their own flesh as they offer their burned out eyes to the burning gates of hell.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:40 pm

Shroomie, tone down your blathering. It's annoying and detracts from the topic.

Hotfoot, stop channeling 40K.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:51 am

Sorry, just feeling hyper

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River vs Cleric John Preston

River vs John, pick the winner

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