(ROTJ) Battle of Endor force sub...

[Robert Walper]

I'm sure most of you know the Battle of Endor from Return of the Jedi, where an entire legion of the Emperor's best troops came under attack by the Ewok and Rebel forces.

Now let's replace the Imperial forces with modern day US forces. We'll replace every Imperial officer, soldier and vehicle with the closest US equivalent. I'll actually leave what said replacements are or should be to those more qualified on what type of troops, supplies and vehicles the army would deploy for that specific location (forest) and objective (guard).

In this scenario, the US forces have captured several Rebels who have inflitrated their bunker in an attempt to destroy their communications array vital to conducting a massive battle elsewhere.

They are then surprise attacked by the Ewoks and Rebel troops. The Rebels and Ewoks have access to everything they did in the movie, and the US has access to everything they would realistically have available in that situation.

How would you expect the battle to play out?

[frigidmagi]

A USMC infantry battalion tears through Ewoks like a chainsaw through a well cooked duck. Boys we're eating teddy bears tonight!

[The Cleric]

Blasters > regular guns, but camo > white armor. Marines take it.

[Cynical Cat]

The ewoks only one by brute force act of plot. If the act of plot is still in effect, they beat marines. If it isn't, they suffer the same fate as they should have suffered at the hands of stormtroopers, which is to say the marines throw another teddy bear on the BBQ.

[Robert Walper]

The ewoks only one by brute force act of plot.

If one could excuse science fiction incompetence, stupidity or inability with the simple line "act of plot", pretty much anything goes. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

If the act of plot is still in effect, they beat marines.

Given the scenario in question is unique, any claim there's a specific plot to be followed is false. The scenario is to be considered in a realistic and logical manner.

If it isn't, they suffer the same fate as they should have suffered at the hands of stormtroopers, which is to say the marines throw another teddy bear on the BBQ.

Let's not turn the thread into an Imperial wanking and wishful "they should have won" arguement. They lost, whereas modern forces would have bitchslapped the Ewok and Rebel assault.

[frigidmagi]

To be honest I wasn't overly impressed with the imperial forces deployment or tactics in the engagment.

The Storm Troopers failed to estblish a secure parameter which requires amoung other things, several guard posts in clear view of the others. Instead of one clump of dumbasses with bikes, there should have been 3 guard post around the entry point and a 4th on the other side of the door. I will however give the imperials full points on having a react team suited up and ready to go and for that react team being able to move fast when they got word.

Also I did not note the Storm troopers using modern fire and manuever tactics or maintaining the intergity of their units. Squads and fireteams should have stayed togather and platoons should have stayed in contract. The advance should have been a coordinated series of rushes under fire support until the Ewoks were pushed far enough away from the generator to cease to matter. What I saw was a horde of white clad troopers running around like chickens with their heads cut off firing at anything vaguely furry. Any surviving officers should be removed from the service and NCOs busted down to Pvt.

It saddens me to no great end to report in my opinion the Ewoks used more complex tactics than the Imperials, has well as effectivly taking advantage of lax security measures.

[Cynical Cat]

The ewoks only one by brute force act of plot.

If one could excuse science fiction incompetence, stupidity or inability with the simple line "act of plot", pretty much anything goes. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Use your brain Robert. I wrote an explanation, not an excuse. The plot required that the "A legion of my best troops" loose to a bunch of neolithic tribesmen and a small commando team and so they were incompetent enough to lose. Unless any replacement army is equally incompetent they are going to win.

And yes, I'm still not happy with that particular bit of the movie after all these years. Shitty writing it still shitty writing.

[Robert Walper]

The ewoks only one by brute force act of plot.

If one could excuse science fiction incompetence, stupidity or inability with the simple line "act of plot", pretty much anything goes. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Use your brain Robert. I wrote an explanation, not an excuse. The plot required that the "A legion of my best troops" loose to a bunch of neolithic tribesmen and a small commando team and so they were incompetent enough to lose. Unless any replacement army is equally incompetent they are going to win.

And why did this need explanation? It is blantantly obvious the Imperial forces were incompetent to lose to such an inferior force.

Again, your post came across as stating the obvious with the line "they should've won" and appealing to 'act of plot'. That came across as an excuse to me.

Anyhow, we're not here to dwell on Imperial incompetence; the thread is just interested in how well our modern forces would've done in their place.

[Cynical Cat]

And why did this need explanation? It is blantantly obvious the Imperial forces were incompetent to lose to such an inferior force.

Why the need for the explanation? The existence of this poll suffices. Any moderately competent modern force would curbstomp the ewoks. Everyone agrees. They only win by act of plot and so this poll pointless as asking whether a bunch of bronze age charioteers could beat the US Army.

[frigidmagi]

so this poll pointless as asking whether a bunch of bronze age charioteers could beat the US Army.

I thought the Ewoks were stone age. I didn't notice any metal working abilties...

[Cynical Cat]

so this poll pointless as asking whether a bunch of bronze age charioteers could beat the US Army.

I thought the Ewoks were stone age. I didn't notice any metal working abilties...

The are stone age. But even if we are generous enough to promote them to bronze age and downgrade their opposition from Marines to Army, the Ewoks should still be butchered.

[Robert Walper]

And why did this need explanation? It is blantantly obvious the Imperial forces were incompetent to lose to such an inferior force.

Why the need for the explanation? The existence of this poll suffices. Any moderately competent modern force would curbstomp the ewoks. Everyone agrees. They only win by act of plot and so this poll pointless as asking whether a bunch of bronze age charioteers could beat the US Army.

So in other words a legion of the Emperor's best troops is even worse than I thought. Makes one wonder who couldn't beat them then.

[Narsil]

Makes one wonder who couldn't beat them then.

These Guys:

[Robert Walper]

Makes one wonder who couldn't beat them then.

These Guys:

Very funny. Now if you're done trying to sidetrack the thread, we'll move along.

[Narsil]

Very funny. Now if you're done trying to sidetrack the thread, we'll move along.

You did ask.

[Robert Walper]

Very funny. Now if you're done trying to sidetrack the thread, we'll move along.

You did ask.

No, I didn't. I just said it makes one wonder...I did not say list possible opponents the Imperials (who lost against teddy bears) could defeat.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Very funny. Now if you're done trying to sidetrack the thread, we'll move along.

You did ask.

No, I didn't. I just said it makes one wonder...I did not say list possible opponents the Imperials (who lost against teddy bears) could defeat.

To be fair, does the emperor really know who his best troops are? Seriously, he has MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of platoons fo troops. He could have simply been trying to intimidate Luke to help turn him. For all we know, the one's who Palpy SAID were his best troops could have been an Omega unit, or called Shortbus Squadron by the other stormies.

We have to go by visuals, and those soldiers wre incompetant. The stormies who boarded the tantive IV were not incompetant, and assuming they survived in any capacity, it proves that the troops on endor were not the empires best.

[frigidmagi]

You know... Thinking about the late Roman Empire Armies and Byzantium's militart brings up a possibility. That on paper, the legion looked like one of the best. But the officers of the Legion and whatever Moff they were working for was buggering the paperwork in order to get higher effiecentcy ratings and more pay.

Byzantium armies were rife with officers having ghost enlistees and pocketing their pay or buying spoiled food as rations for the troops for example. Could that have happened here? Could the Emperor selected a paper tiger to guard Endor?

[The Silence and I]

I imagine that is extremely likely. There has to be some skill somewhere in the Empire's ranks, going by A New Hope, logic, and even what we see in the Clone War; we do not see skill at Endor. Therefore, whatever it was supposed to be on paper, Endor's defense force was most likely sub par.

I suppose it is also possible that most of the Empire is made of paper tigers, and we see some of the rare well-trained troops under Vader's command in A New Hope. I'm not sold on either one, only looking at the movies as I am want to do, but I believe the EU makes the first possibility far more likely.

[Josh]

For evidence of just how incompetent the Imperial garrison in question is, look no further than their shiny white armor.

Two aspects to that- first of all, they made no concessions whatsoever to the environment they were working in. Second of all, even in the middle of 'recon' in the middle of the forest, they kept their armor all nice and spiffy.

Speaks to a garrison troop mentality of the worst variety.

Furthermore, the Ewoks had obviously been preparing for a fight with the Imperial garrison- witness the tree trap and so on. That tree trap was a rather obvious construction, in a very close proximity to their base, which speaks to the paucity of patrolling efforts they were making in the surrounding forest.

[Robert Walper]

Don't the Imperial's Forces routinely show incompentence? Everything from white armor in a forest, to routinely shooting from the hip, charging directly at enemy forces in the prequels, etc, etc.