Alternate idea: Klingons.

[frigidmagi]

My purpose in this thread to suggest an alternate idea on the make up and consturction of the Klingon Empire. Let me the first to admit this is a brainbug, born from a comment by Gernal Martok of Deep Space 9 to Worf on the led up to his (Worf's) wedding to Dax.

"Worf, we're Klingons, we don't embrace other cultures...We conqear them!"

I've been thinking... Well what if they did?

What if instead of the Klingon Empire being made up of one race it was a multi-specis enitity, like the Federation itself, what if the glue that held togather the Klingons wasn't racial but cultural?

The idea is that there would be dozens of races that considered themselves Klingon. What makes them Klingon isn't thier genes but their devotation to shared cultural and religious ideals and values. These ideals and values were spread by the orginal conqears via conquest much like the Romans. And the Klingons mean to keep spreading them be it by trade, diplomacy or war, whatever works best.

I've even considered this, making the Klingons more bardic in nature. Bards were warrior poets in Celtic soceity, they were defenders of their culture and traditions, not only did they fight for these ideals on the battlefield but they also taught them to the young via song and story. Being as there are so many different types of Klingon now the different musical sytles used should be deep and varied but all centered around Klingon values.

Questions? Moans? Compliants?

[Stofsk]

In TOS, there were several episodes that dealt with Klingon agents negotiating with other cultures ("A Private Little War" and "Friday's Child") where invasion or conquering might seem the less desirable option. It showed that there was room for diplomacy in the Klingon Empire, while episodes like "Errand of Mercy" showed that they would also beam down onto strategic planets and invade if it suits them.

And of course, the episode "The Trouble with Tribbles" gave us the line from Koloth's second, "Half the quadrant is learning to speak Klingonese!"

All of this was forgotten by sometime during either TNG or DS9, when the Klingons just became a one-note charicature. TOS first principles however showed us that the Klingons had depth, and they didn't just invade for the hell of it. Witness Kirk and Kor's argument in front of the Organians, Kor claims the Federation was deliberately hemming them in which to his mind was begging for war. (and this isn't an isolated incident either, the Federation encountered the same problem with the Gorn in "Arena")

God I love TOS.

[Hotfoot]

I like it. It gives the Klingons more depth and more variety than just "roar! stupid zulu!!1!1!"

[Josh]

It's not canon, but the novels explore that premise, somewhat. However, the result is that the species absorbed by the Klingons are second-class citizens not accorded full rights by the Empire. For some reason, this is considered perfectly reasonable.

My own take? It's an interesting concept, a Roman-esque society, and much more plausible in TOS' framework than the later series.

[Batman]

Elaborate 'perfectly reasonable', please. Is it considered perfectly reasonable by society at large, or by the 'first-class' citizens? Note that if a certain subset of people are told they're inferior often enough, they might start to believe it.
Do I really have to point out slavery to a US citizen?

[frigidmagi]

I think he means perfectly reasonable to the Federation.

[Dark Silver]

Bardic warriors who conquered and absorbed a hundred species to forge thier mighty Empire?

Sounds perfectly logical to me, and hopefully if they EVER do a Star Trek reboot, they would do good to make the Klingons similar to this, instead of thier TNG on countenance.

[Josh]

I think he means perfectly reasonable to the Federation.

Yeah, exactly. You've got Federation officers paying their respects left and right to Klingon culture, you've got Picard overseeing a change of government for them, and supposedly they'd all be cool with quasi-slavery for races the Klingons have conquered.

Bah.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I've even considered this, making the Klingons more bardic in nature. Bards were warrior poets in Celtic soceity, they were defenders of their culture and traditions, not only did they fight for these ideals on the battlefield but they also taught them to the young via song and story. Being as there are so many different types of Klingon now the different musical sytles used should be deep and varied but all centered around Klingon values.

Bardic warriors who conquered and absorbed a hundred species to forge thier mighty Empire?

Sounds perfectly logical to me, and hopefully if they EVER do a Star Trek reboot, they would do good to make the Klingons similar to this, instead of thier TNG on countenance.

Oh please, guys. Hearing Lieutenant Worf singing is already bad enough, and now you want an entire choir?


Back to the topic, actually the idea of 'bardic culture' doesn't sit right with me.... See, the concept of bards is already obsolete with the advancement of communication technology, mass media, and entertainment industry.

Consider the United States (or Japan) promoting its culture and traditions; does it need to maintain a bardic culture? Nah, the media is more than sufficient for the purpose without having to resort to an obsolete concept. If anything, they'll be most likely to use mass-distributed, highly commercialized pop culture to promote their culture and traditions. So instead of Lieutenant Worf becoming a travelling poet, we'll be more likely to see the twin sisters L'Ursa and B'Etor as famous lesbian Klingon porn stars; evangelizing Klingon mating tradition with all those chains and whips and the likes, which, by the way, will end up in a simultaneous ejaculation, and a big mess of ejaculatory fluids.

[Cynical Cat]

KAN, this isn't testing. Keep on topic.

[Batman]

Surprisingly enough except for the last three lines his post was on-topic.
That doesn't make him right, of course. I fail to see why the bardic way can't make use of mass media.
It's not like the use of music and poetry to propagate a certain ideology is unheard of in the real world. Why can't the Klingon's do it?

[Josh]

I see a lot of bardic tradition correspondence in modern society. If anything, mass communication has strengthened it by giving airheaded celebrities an influence entirely beyond the reach their own merits would give them.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

So you're talking bardic culture in broader sense, am I correct? But then again, it means that today's United States also keeps a bardic tradition; Holywood and MTV and the likes.

I think frigid's hypothetical Klingons should be more resembling the illustration above instead of literally having warrior poets in their military rank.

[frigidmagi]

I think you need keep that bullshit in testing ass.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I think you need keep that bullshit in testing ass.

Which post do you refer to?

[frigidmagi]

You know damn well what I'm talking about.

[Cynical Cat]

Lets be clear: I'm a mod of this forum. KAN, no TGODing or silly sexual sidelines in this forum.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I thought the course of the discussion has been back on-topic.

You know damn well what I'm talking about.

Then your post was four posts-late.

[Cynical Cat]

Shall we all get back to the topic at hand?

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Shall we all get back to the topic at hand?

I thought we already did since Batman's and Josh's post. Now how practical for the Klingons to maintain warrior-poets in their military ranks, compared to evangelizing their tradition and culture through mass-media?

And IIRC, in The Undiscovered Country, Kirk's and Bones' trial was broadcasted by the Klingons, so I think mass media is not alien to Star Trek culture. And in many episodes of Star Trek, Picard has been shown listening to recorded music -something that makes the bard's existence obsolete.

[Josh]

I think that if you took Klingon culture to trend toward more of an emphasis on realism, warrior bards would work. Instead of being broadcast from afar, the important thing would be on those who are there, now, and/or witnessed to the great events.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I think that if you took Klingon culture to trend toward more of an emphasis on realism, warrior bards would work. Instead of being broadcast from afar, the important thing would be on those who are there, now, and/or witnessed to the great events.

Actually I don't quite get it. So what's the real world analogy of the warrior bard profession? Is it more like modern-day war reporter? Only that the reporters themselves would enjoy more recognition (and importance -at least perceived importance) than the media company behind them? So if today we say "CNN news at channel five", then in the hypothetical Klingon civilization, one would say "Worf's Testimonials at channel five", am making an accurate analogy here?

Well in today's society, we already have prominent, celebrity journalists like Shauna Lowry or George Herman. Maybe the hypothetical warrior bards are actually people like those, only with greater role and importance in their society?

[Josh]

Not quite. We don't really have an analogue to a modern day high-tech warrior society, so we don't really have analgous figures as such. I'm thinking of a hybridization, essentially.

[Mayabird]

Not quite on the bardic topic, but an interesting sidenote: if the Klingons are a culture rather than a species, you could conceivably have human Klingons as well. There'd have to be some people who'd get entranced by a bardic warrior culture and skip out of the Federation. It would also destroy the brainbugs of humans all being in the Federation and the Federation being good because humans are all good...well, you know what I mean. If it's not just a few aberrant individuals/one shot badguys but a significant group of humans who declare, "I am Klingon," it'd add some nice depth and potential conflict to stories.

[frigidmagi]

Yes, I think that would add tension to the Klingon/Federation conflict. It becomes cultural on a much deeper level. Let's be honest the Federation does it's level best to export it's culture and is damn well convinced it has the best system in the galaxy that's great for everyone. None of the other cultures in Star Trek really contest this. What if someone did?

I also invite others who have an alternate idea of a power to throw it up on that thread. Anyone got a alternate view of the Romulans? Cardassians? Fergeni? Anyone?