Heavy Worlders gene Mod?

[frigidmagi]

I tend to hang out in the book store before going to work and browse the books. In Science Fiction Stories from the 1950s to 1970s a sub-group of humanity keeps showing up that appears to have fallen into disfavor with modern writers.

The Heavy Worlders are humans engineered to live and survive on worlds with a gravity to high for healthy human existence. From what I can read it's not to high a gravity as these folks are always recognizable as humans and can interbreed (so they're not a separate species). Traditionally they're huge hulking giants.

Now I can figure that such a person would need a stronger heart and circular system and thicker bones and muscles to resist the constant pull, beyond that and I'm kinda lost.

So what would a human genetically engineered for heavier gravity environments look like? And what range of gravity are we talking about before really major modifications are required?

[Dark Silver]

my only experience with the "breed" your talking about are from a series I can't remember the title for.

Basically, if I'm thinking right, heavy gravirt worlders will need a stronger circulatory and respitory systems, better bone mass, stronger muscles to resist the pull of gravity, etc etc.


They don't need to be taller, but they'd need to be more massive in comparrison to the "normal grav" humanity (I beleive anyway)

[Hadrianvs]

The only science fiction setting that I know got correct what type of modifications would be needed to live in a high gravity world is Warhammer 40,000. They have the Squats, who were short and stout. They had powerful muscles and thick bones, but slightly diminished agility, especially for fast movement. That is what would be realistic, hulking giants would would have to do more work against gravity to do anything, a distinctly maladaptive trait.

There was also a short story that had a group of humans genetically modifying themselves into centaurs to survive a high-G world. This let them maintain the ability to move quickly while reducing the strain on the individual legs. They still had short legs, and IIRC were not taller than normal humans. An interesting thing is that they had an ancient solar-powered suit which cancelled enough of the world's gravity that its wearer could move around freely and comfortably. They must have kept the thing around for thousands of years and it still worked when they gave it to their human visitor.

I do not know if either group of ab-humans could have bred with baseline humans, though. I would think that either not, or with difficulty (ie, high failure rate).

[Jason_Firewalker]

I remember it from Andromeda, the TV show but beyond them looking like Kevin Sorbo I am at a loss.

[frigidmagi]

I remember it from Andromeda, the TV show but beyond them looking like Kevin Sorbo I am at a loss.

Was Kevin Sorbo's character suppose to be stronger or faster then normal humans?

[Batman]

As a matter of fact yes he was (to a degree that was completely out of proportion with the higher gravity he supposedly grew up under, which was below 2 g if I recall correctly).

[Steve]

As I mentioned on IM to frigid, I used the idea for a character I wrote into the Star Trek Timelines story setting (and then adapted to TGG), Sharon Carter. Though I didn't have the world that intense G-field wise. I believe I stated her augmentation as being about 25%+ baseline human, enough that she was benching eighty kilos at sixty-kilos mass without much effort (compared to deciding to peg Khan's improvement at 300%).

And before people remark about it, no, it's not a homage to the comic Sharon Carter aka the blonde SHIELD agent that was shacking up with Cap before his death. Ironically enough Carter was envisioned as a homage to the DCAU Shayera Hol.

[Comrade Tortoise]

They will need stronger hearts in order to pump blood to their brains. They will also need stronger connective tissue (the real weak point) to prevent their muscles from becoming detached from bone when they perform work.

The bone material will also need to be able to with stand stronger compression and sheering forces both sustained and in quick bursts. This goes beyond bone density. The material itself is not strong enough.

They will also want to be shorter.

[frigidmagi]

Just how high a Gravity are you thinking CT?

[Comrade Tortoise]

Put it this way. In normal gravity, the force of a fall is enough to break your arm if you land wrong, and your ankles.. well...The gravity would not have to be particularly high for the effects to get nasty.

[frigidmagi]

Okay, but that's not every fall. I can fall out of my chair and it would take some rather stupid gymnastics to break my arm. Seriously what gravity are you thinking of?

[Comrade Tortoise]

Okay, but that's not every fall. I can fall out of my chair and it would take some rather stupid gymnastics to break my arm. Seriously what gravity are you thinking of?

maybe 1.5 gs. Our bones, let alone connective tissue does not take sheering forces well.

[frigidmagi]

So they would be short and would want to avoid ladders. Got it.

[The Silence and I]

It's all about scale, and the extent of the gravity increase. Put a mouse in a 1.5 gee environment and it'll be fine. Put an elephant in the same environment and... not so fine.

If you accounted for the circulatory system I'd expect otherwise normal humans to function in 1.5 gees sans major problems. I'm 160 lbs under 1 gee, I'd increase to 240 lbs under 1.5 gees. I would tire quickly and move sluggishly for a while but in terms of mobility I'd be better off than if I simply gained 80 lbs of fat under 1 gee--and people my size have been doing that here for years without becoming useless bed-ridden blobs. There are differences in where the load is carried; for example I'd experience greater forces on my neck under 1.5 gees than a fat version of myself under 1 gee, but we are built with some tolerances "in mind" and can adapt to new stresses.

Now, without upgrading the circulatory system there would be problems associated with the gravity increase, ranging from annoying to serious and they would likely worsen with time. But our current bone, muscular and connective structure can handle 1.5 gees. I'm not saying we'd be performing parkour or anything! But the kind of physical changes needed to preserve useful mobility are not so huge.

If you wish to journey into the land of 2+ gees then larger changes are needed. The biggest change though, is to make us shorter. Reduce our height by a factor of 2 and so many possibilities open up.

[Cynical Cat]

Tiny nitpick: Sorbo's character in Andromeda was only 1/2 heavy worlder.

In the War World series, some of the characters are descendants of liberal exiles from the hell world of Frystaat, where the Co-Dominion dumped troublesome Afrikaans. It has 1.5gs, orbits and F-type star, and has a thick atmosphere. The Frystaaters have little in the way genetically engineered traits, but selection pressures (it killed 2/3 of the involuntary colonists in the first five years) have resulted in certain distinct traits.

1) Although technically Caucasian, skin colour is dark brown. Tan well or get lethal skin cancers from solar radiation.

2) Low subcutaneous fat. It's hotter than hell on Frystaat. It's cold on Haven. Yeah, this one doesn't work out so well for the exiles.

3) Good vision. Thick atmosphere limits range of vision.

4) Hearings a little on the poor side. Thick atmosphere transmits sound really well

5) About average height, but squat with dense muscles and bones. This still makes falling on Frystaat nasty.

6) Good reflexes. To avoid falling on Frystaat.

7) Tend to die young from body overstress.

[frigidmagi]

So this is what I'm getting:

Short, denser bones and muscles, stronger heart and lungs.

Silence suggested to me yesterday the idea of muscled veins and such, so they could aid in pumping and reduce the workload on the heart.

Thoughts?