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#1 Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:47 pm
by rhoenix
This article I felt raised several interesting points, and to me showed subtle highlighting of a galactic-level civilization that left literacy as a common skill behind millenia ago in favor of audio/visual communication.

I found this on io9.com, but here's the full article from the source.
tor.com wrote:Not once in any Star Wars movie does someone pick up a book or newspaper, magazine, literary journal, or chapbook handmade by an aspiring Jawa poet. If something is read by someone in Star Wars, it’s almost certainly off of a screen (and even then, maybe being translated by a droid), and it’s definitely not for entertainment purposes. As early as the 1990s-era expanded Star Wars books and comic books, we’re introduced to ancient Jedi “texts” called holocrons, which are basically talking holographic video recordings. Just how long has the Star Wars universe been reliant on fancy technology to transfer information as opposed to the written word? Is it possible that a good number of people in Star Wars are completely illiterate?

To be fair, finding a science fiction or fantasy universe richly populated with its own indigenous art—and more specifically, its own literature—is rare. As Lev Grossman has pointed out, “No one reads books in Narnia.” Harry Potter himself doesn’t really have a favorite novelist, and most of the stuff Tolkien’s Gandalf reads comes in the form of scrolls and prophecies...not exactly pleasure reading. Fantasy heroes don’t seem to read for pleasure very often, but usually you get the impression that they can read.

Very popular science fiction does a little bit better here, with characters on both Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica being pretty into novels and poetry. Notably, both of these universes have some kind of news media (as does Harry Potter.) And it’s in this lack of news media where the possibility of widespread illiteracy in the Star Wars galaxy starts to become more and more likely....

If you simply stick to the Star Wars films, there is no news media of any kind. Despite the fact that we see cameras circling around Queen/Senator Amidala in the Senate, they don’t seem to be actually feeding this information anywhere. Are they security cameras, like the ones that recorded Anakin killing little tiny Jedi kiddies? This theory achieves a little more weight when you consider that the conversation in The Phantom Menace Senate scene is all about how Queen Amidala can’t verify the existence of a coming invasion. She’s got no pictures, and stranger still, no reputable news source has even written about the blockade of Naboo. Even if we put forth that cameras in Star Wars are only for security and not for news, that still leaves the question of why there are no journalists. A possible answer: it’s because most people don’t read, which means that over time most people in this universe don’t ever learn to read.

“But wait!” you might be saying, “I remember seeing little pieces of text on the screen that Artoo sends to Luke to read. Also there is writing on the tractor beam controls, and people in the ships are looking at buttons with letters on them!” Well, I’d like to point out that even in the case of Luke Skywalker, these letters and pieces of writing are directly related to tasks. Pilots for the Empire are probably functionally literate, because they go through some kind of training academy. However, I think the visual evidence suggests a culture much more reliant upon technology and droids than is immediately apparent.

Uncle Owen needs a droid who can speak “bocce,” and then says something about the binary language of load lifters. Okay, so Uncle Owen needs a translator and someone to do math for him. This doesn’t sound like a guy who has gotten a suitable education. I suppose it’s possible that Luke picked up some reading here and there, but we don’t see any books or any evidence to suggest he’s a fluent reader. It seems like all the characters in Star Wars learn how to do is punch certain buttons to make their machines do what they need to do, and everything else is left up to droids.

In our own culture, pictograms have rapidly replaced words on traffic signs, restrooms, etc. The buttons being pressed by the Death Star control room workers might not even be letters. They might be pictograms representing different functions; functions like “death ray blast” and “trash compact.” Plus, how could those guys read anything in those helmets, anyway?

Attack of the Clones sees Obi-Wan Kenobi go to the Jedi Library, but again, this research facility seems less about books and more about pretty colors, interactive holographic maps, etc. The amount of actual reading even someone like Obi-Wan does is still limited. Now, I imagine Jedi can probably read and are taught to read, as are rich people like Princess Leia and Padme Amidala and Jimmy Smits. But everything in Star Wars is about video chat via holograms, or verbal communication through com-links. Nobody texts in Star Wars!

It seems like this society has slipped into a kind of highly functional illiteracy. Surely, for these cultures to progress and become spacefaring entities, they needed written language at some point. But now, the necessity to actually learn reading and writing is fading away. Those who know how to build and repair droids and computers probably have better jobs than those who can’t. This is why there seems to be so much poverty in Star Wars: widespread ignorance.

The idea of education becoming obsolete due to cultural changes isn’t without a science fiction precedent. In the Star Trek pilot “The Cage,” Vina speaks of a culture that “forgets how to repair the machines left behind by their ancestors.” I’m postulating that the same thing happened with literacy in the Star Wars galaxy. People stopped using the written word, because they didn’t need to, and it slipped away from being a commonly held skill.

And to bring up evidence from the expanded universe material a little more: in those stories even ancient Jedi records exist in the form of holograms. I’d say the switch to visual/audio communication from written communication has been underway for a long time in the Star Wars galaxy. It’s also possible people in Star Wars are simply not as imaginative as we are. Maybe the humans and aliens populating A Galaxy, Far, Far Away are totally boring people who simply used the written word for the purposes of getting their basic culture off the ground – for commerce only, rather than for reflection or pleasure.

The final nail in the coffin which proves widespread illiteracy is how fast stories of the Jedi mutate from a fact of everyday life into legend, seemingly overnight. This is because the average citizen of the galaxy in Star Wars receives his/her/its information orally, from stories told by spacers in bars, farmboys on arid planets, orphans in crime-ridden cities, etc. Without written documents, these stories easily become perverted and altered quickly. This is the same way Palpatine was able to take over in Revenge of the Sith. He simply said “the Jedi tried to kill me” and everyone was like, “okay.”

Padme points out that liberty dies “with thunderous applause,” but really their liberty is dying because most of them can’t read and are powerless and disenfranchised. In fact most of the surviving characters at the end of the prequels are the bad guys, and they can probably read. The Jedi seem to be the most educated people in the prequels, but that changes when they all get killed. This would be like a real life Empire going and burning down all the colleges and schools and killing all the teachers. The academy, the keepers of literacy would be gone. And once that happens, it’s easy for a tyrannical empire to take over, to control the information. Maybe Padme should have said “this is how literacy dies...”

But, what’s sad about Star Wars is that its inhabitants (save for our heroes) seem so complacent and lacking in imagination that this sort of thing was bound to happen in one way or another. In reality, if a whole culture relied exclusively on a group like the Jedi to not only guard justice and truth, but also be the only educated, literate people around, that culture would be seriously screwed up. Meanwhile, these people simply rely on their droids to do everything else.

Obi-Wan may have put a lightsaber in Luke’s hand, but really he and Qui-Gon should have been going around teaching people on poor planets to read years and years prior. After all, hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good book in your hands.

#2 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:55 pm
by frigidmagi
Okay first off: Most fantasy heroes are from pre-printing press societies that means everything has to be copied by hand. Additionally, in Lord of the Rings, most of the societies we've seen don't have the surplus of food and labor to support a class of people who would spend most of their time copying things. That means, bluntly there likely is no novel industry in most of Middle Earth. There might be nobles in Gondor who write for pleasure or for educational purposes (or not, they are locked in a eternal life or death struggle with the Southerons and Mordor) and there is certainly a large body of work by elves who seem to have figure out how to produce food without a large toiling class. Additionally both Fordo and Biblo wrote books but again without the printing press there was no means to mass produce the books. Additionally, most people are busy farming, fighting or otherwise making a living. We also see no evidence of public education, so outside of Hobbiton most people likely can't read.

And... OH YEAH WE'RE LOOKING AT THEM IN A THE MIDDLE OF A WAR OF SURVIVAL! They might have better things to do then discuss their favorite novel!

So no mass produced books.
No large group or caste of writers.
No large group of book consumers.
Everyone's distracted by the dark lord who wants to kill or enslave them.

So you have a medieval Europe situation. Some elites can read, everyone else can't. Let me point out in Lord of the Rings and most fantasy books, we follow characters from the elite classes (my argument being that anyone who can throw a fireball from his bare hands will swiftly find himself in the elite class or dead).

In Star Wars:

Bluntly our sample size is to small. We only see a small group of elites who are battling in the worse parts of the galaxy and have very little downtime. There may or may not be news services in Star Wars but frankly at no time do we see our characters having the time to sit down and watch much of anything. I'm not saying that it's impossible for Star Wars society to be post literate, I'm saying there's no way to realistically tell. We follow a band of elites in the prequels who don't have time for that. And then we follow a scruffy bunch of terrorist at the edges of civilization fighting the last battles of a generation long civil war. Look between Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi there is constant low level fighting to the point that Luke, an ignorant farm boy considers the Empire to be an illegitimate form of government "Look, I hate the Empire same as anyone!" he says in New Hope.

Which brings up a question... If he can't read? And there's no news service? How did Luke get the information which would lead him to believe the Empire, which has been ruling the galaxy as long as he's been alive is something he should hate? How was this concept communicated to him? Who communicated this concept? Why does Luke assume it's wide spread?

As for the Jedi, wouldn't an aggressive disinformation campaign and control of history classes help in that regard? If a government with censorship, control over the history books and information pathways decided to write out a small group of people that most never saw and rarely acted in public... Would it really be that hard? Of course our sample size for people not knowing about the Jedi is... Luke. Whose Aunt and Uncle have very good, solid reasons for not wanting him to believe in the Force or even know of it's existence. Who kept him on an isolated farm on the ass end of nowhere. So draw your own conclusions.

#3 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:06 pm
by Soontir948
Senate scene is all about how Queen Amidala can’t verify the existence of a coming invasion.
Communications were disrupted and any ship entering Naboo space were probably intercepted by the Trade Federation. I suppose Amidala could've taken high resolution photos of the surface while at the same time trying to survive and getting past the blockade...

It does make me wonder why a ship presumably with sensor logs, couldn't scan the surface and submit evidence of the droid troops. Of course, it could be considered heresy/forgeries.
Uncle Owen needs a droid who can speak “bocce,” and then says something about the binary language of load lifters. Okay, so Uncle Owen needs a translator and someone to do math for him. This doesn’t sound like a guy who has gotten a suitable education. I suppose it’s possible that Luke picked up some reading here and there, but we don’t see any books or any evidence to suggest he’s a fluent reader. It seems like all the characters in Star Wars learn how to do is punch certain buttons to make their machines do what they need to do, and everything else is left up to droids.
We never saw Luke's bedroom. It was either the kitchen, dining table, or the workshop where books wouldn't necessarily be placed. Also, while SUNY and NYC Board of Education requires you to learn a second language decently, you won't necessarily grasp it after those classes are finished (six years of Spanish and I remember nada).

Plus, C3P0 said he knows millions of languages. Bocce may not be a secondary language that he really needed to know. Knowing how to understand the Jawas on the other hand proved more useful.

#4 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:29 pm
by Josh
Stepping aside from the SOD method of analysis, the reason we don't see anybody reading is because it didn't serve the story to have a lengthy discussion of literature. The genius of the original Star Wars in particular was the pacing and the fact that there was no wasted space anywhere in the story- every scene moves the story or provides necessary context, and what I've always loved about it is that there's no bathroom break anywhere in the movie. No matter how many times you watch it, there's no scene where you feel "Oh, this is the dragging spot, I'll hit the john."

(Compared to Obi Wan's "Certain point of view" speech in RotJ, which is made for potty breaks.)

One thing that always got me about Star Trek was how rarely they depicted any modern high culture. When does Picard quote the great 22nd century philosophers? Nope, it's back to quoting Shakespeare and Melville. So I wouldn't call that 'showing a arts culture' in Star Trek, but rather using the usual mechanism by which we establish that a character is cultured and well-educated. "He actually read that Moby Dick!"

(Nah, he lifted that quote from the Cliff Notes. Sorry.)

Back into SoD:

On the Jedi being reduced to fable status, look at our own society with high literacy and see how many concepts have been moved from 'plausible' to 'ridiculous' in twenty year spans. After the Jedi are purged, the Empire does a few documentaries on how everything they did could be replicated with existing technology. After that, even eyewitness testimony about the feats of the Jedi lose any credibility.

#5 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:12 am
by Stofsk
Josh wrote:Stepping aside from the SOD method of analysis, the reason we don't see anybody reading is because it didn't serve the story to have a lengthy discussion of literature. The genius of the original Star Wars in particular was the pacing and the fact that there was no wasted space anywhere in the story- every scene moves the story or provides necessary context, and what I've always loved about it is that there's no bathroom break anywhere in the movie. No matter how many times you watch it, there's no scene where you feel "Oh, this is the dragging spot, I'll hit the john."
It doesn't have to be plot-centric or thematic, it could just be background detail. Like seeing a book or something on a shelf. Nobody would need to call attention to it, but eagle-eyed audience members could see it and go ahah! SOMEONE must read if books are still around.

For example, reading and literacy is neither a plot point or a thematic quality of Wrath of Khan. Yet when Checkov and Terrel board the Botany Bay, we see a shelf with books on it. Hell, Checkov notices the ship's name on a tag, and that's what gets him riled up.
One thing that always got me about Star Trek was how rarely they depicted any modern high culture. When does Picard quote the great 22nd century philosophers? Nope, it's back to quoting Shakespeare and Melville. So I wouldn't call that 'showing a arts culture' in Star Trek, but rather using the usual mechanism by which we establish that a character is cultured and well-educated. "He actually read that Moby Dick!"
Why does that annoy you? Shakespeare is talked about today and it's real life, and it's only been four centuries give or take a decade or two. Moby Dick was an integral theme of First Contact (also Wrath of Khan), and I would say responsible for one of the film's most powerful scenes. Hell I'll go even further and say that it's one of the most powerful scenes in Trek.

Picard may have been a huge Shakespeare nerd but he had interests in other fields too, including archaeology. There's a lot of made up history that he was intimately familiar of, such as the Kurlan civilisation. Furthermore, if we look at the other shows like TOS, Gary Mitchell in 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' quoted a make believe poet. In 'Conscience of the King', they pick up a Shakespeare troop of actors who put on Hamlet for the crew as their passage fee. In 'Requiem for Methuselah' Spock shows he is quite knowledgeable on things like human culture; particularly classical music when he recognises an original Brahms score owned by Flint (as it happened, as is Star Trek fashion, Flint turned out to actually BE Brahms, and a host of other historical figures) On DS9 Bashir had his spy holoprograms, and he and O'Brien took part in some role-play and both showed a keen interest in history (specifically battles like the Alamo and the Battle of Britain). Over on Voyager Tom Paris had his Flash Gordon inspired serials Captain Proton that he was fascinated with. Going back to TNG, we have Data playing Sherlock Holmes. Worf and Troi played in a Western. Picard played a hard-boiled 1930's style Detective. On DS9, they recreated a Sinatra style bar and even had a recurring character for it; complete with period music and costumes. There's a wealth of examples that show that Star Trek's denizens have sophisticated tastes and aren't just focused on Shakespeare.

Some of this stuff may have been a plot point, but some of it wasn't, and was just character stuff. In 'Improbable Cause' and 'The Die Is Cast', the two-parter opens with Bashir and Garak having a spirited discussion on literature. This actually leads to Garak quoting Julius Caesar in a climactic scene at the end of the second episode, but that teaser shows that people in Star Trek are not only well-read but love to talk about what they read.

Now I suppose that the SW films are by necessity different - they have much less time for example to really get into such things. But like the Wrath of Khan example I gave above, there's not even a BOOK lying around as a prop in the background. EVER. Like I get that the Rebels are fighting a desperate guerilla war against an Evil Empire, but come on, not one guy has a book he likes to read in his downtime? We do get music though, so there IS that - not just the Mos Eisley Cantina but Palpatine was at a opera IIRC. So there are elements of high culture in the SW universe but that's a bit off-topic from the central thesis that people are illiterate. It's an interesting idea, I don't know if I would say it's conclusively proven, but the article did stick mostly to the highest canon evidence - the films - and really it would have been very easy to show a book or two in any number of different scenes without calling attention to it. Remember that Lucas wanted a very 'lived-in' feel to the first film, so he rubbed dirt into all the props. A lot of effort was put in to make the universe these characters inhabit feel real. (at least in the OT) So the absence of textual media is eyebrow raising.
frigidmagi wrote:Which brings up a question... If he can't read? And there's no news service? How did Luke get the information which would lead him to believe the Empire, which has been ruling the galaxy as long as he's been alive is something he should hate? How was this concept communicated to him? Who communicated this concept? Why does Luke assume it's wide spread?
Word of mouth explains that. In fact, there's even a deleted scene of Luke meeting up with Biggs on Tatooine early in the film who explains he's gone off to join the rebellion. Furthermore, it's quite obvious Luke's a cluey sort - so he may indeed be literate. The article's thesis is not disadvantaged by having Luke be an exception to the rule, because the point is not on extraordinary individuals but on how the background details of the world they inhabit seems to point against a literate populace.
As for the Jedi, wouldn't an aggressive disinformation campaign and control of history classes help in that regard? If a government with censorship, control over the history books and information pathways decided to write out a small group of people that most never saw and rarely acted in public... Would it really be that hard? Of course our sample size for people not knowing about the Jedi is... Luke. Whose Aunt and Uncle have very good, solid reasons for not wanting him to believe in the Force or even know of it's existence. Who kept him on an isolated farm on the ass end of nowhere. So draw your own conclusions.
Well that's the point the article is making, that for the Empire to have succeeded so well that a slave like Anakin on a dustball rock like Tatooine knew about a Jedi simply by spotting Qui-gon's lightsabre, to 20 years plus change later and the Jedi have fallen into myth so much that Han Solo, an experienced traveller, felt it was 'simple tricks and nonsense'.

Actually Han's a good example for his infamous parsec gaffe. Because anyone who is even slightly educated on things like space - which really, should be EVERYONE in a galactic-spanning civilsation - to make such a mistake, either begs a wholly-unsatisfactory EU explanation (that he literally cut the Kessel Run in short thanks to flying past black holes that shortened the distance) or he was trying to pull a fast-one on what he thought were a couple of country bumpkins (even this is unsatisfactory as well, those two were trying to book passage off planet so if he was trying to boast in a non-sensical manner he picked a pretty stupid way to do it). EDIT- What I'm getting at here is that Han knows the word, but either doesn't know the meaning of it, OR he thinks a couple of rubes on a shithole like Tatooine wouldn't know it.

#6 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:47 am
by Josh
I'll concede they showed more than Shakespeare, but they did very rarely have occasion to refer to anything past our present point in history. I understand that it could be a pain in the ass to invent new things but when you have several hundred hours of television to work with it would give some more context in exactly the way that you're describing Star Wars as lacking. There were no literary fads or great works for the next three hundred years?

With Star Wars, you could easily say that the ubiquitous technology means that nobody cuts down trees for paper anymore. We don't see any printed material at all in the entire series, IIRC.

#7 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:06 pm
by Stofsk
Josh wrote:I'll concede they showed more than Shakespeare, but they did very rarely have occasion to refer to anything past our present point in history. I understand that it could be a pain in the ass to invent new things but when you have several hundred hours of television to work with it would give some more context in exactly the way that you're describing Star Wars as lacking. There were no literary fads or great works for the next three hundred years?
Well there was the poet Gary Mitchell quoted. But we also see Jake Sisko who is literary-minded, and he gets published IIRC. He also gets a job as a journalist for the Federation News Service. That's way more than what we see in SW.

Hell as an aside, Jake Sisko is a terrific character for the setting. We finally see a Federation civilian, who when he grows up decides he wants to become a writer rather than follow in the old man's footsteps and become yet-another-Starfleet officer. The fact you can still be employed as a writer shows that the Federation is literate. At the very least, there are career alternatives than joining Starfleet.
With Star Wars, you could easily say that the ubiquitous technology means that nobody cuts down trees for paper anymore. We don't see any printed material at all in the entire series, IIRC.
You're right, we don't see any printed material at all in SW. The question is, what does this do to a society? Entertainment seems to either be in the form of music, or audio-visual media like the holochess.

Note that the EU might invalidate this argument entirely, there could be references to books or print media I'm not readily familiar with. It's still an interesting idea to pursue IMO.

#8 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:22 pm
by Soontir948
Do we necessarily need to see books when devices like the Kindle Fire or a Nook are becoming more common? Reading doesn't need to be with a paperback.

#9 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:41 am
by Stofsk
You're right but we don't see anything like the kindle either.

#10 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:07 am
by Josh
The Kindle's a short-term thing that's already on the final stages of blending with the tablet market anyway. The only thing the latest Kindle differs from a tablet in is that the book-reading is native and always on top. (I was going to say that you have to download the Kindle app in tablets, but these days it's pretty much standard with tablets.)

Point being we don't necessarily have to see anything like a Kindle for there to be reading material. Hell, maybe books are holographically projected in Star Wars, with giant screaming fonts for the nearsighted.

#11 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:55 am
by SirNitram
Guh, what? There's definitely literacy. There's a whole freaking alphabet!

A page from the Wookiepedia replete with examples: Link

#12 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:07 pm
by Hotfoot
This is what happens when too many English and Film Majors don't get jobs in their fields.

#13 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:17 am
by Comrade Tortoise
For example, reading and literacy is neither a plot point or a thematic quality of Wrath of Khan. Yet when Checkov and Terrel board the Botany Bay, we see a shelf with books on it. Hell, Checkov notices the ship's name on a tag, and that's what gets him riled up.
:???: :shock:

Khan quotes either directly or modifies Paradise Lost, Moby Dick, Hamlet etc all over the place. The whole movie is one gigantic literary allusion.

#14 Re: Citizens of Star Wars are illiterate?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:36 am
by Josh
"From hell's heart, I quote at thee!"