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#1 Captain America vs Wolverine
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:04 am
by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
One is the best hand-to-hand combatant of the Avengers, while the other is the best among the X-Men. One has adamantium shield, while the other has adamantium claws. So who will win in hand-to-hand combat against each other?
#2
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:04 am
by Stofsk
Captain America.
Why? Because I fucking hate Wolverine.
#3
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:08 am
by Josh
Voting with Stofsk here.
Wolverine got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overplayed.
#4
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:49 am
by Narsil
Who would I want to win? Captain America for reasons listed above.
Unfortunately, it's a bit like the 23rd century Federation vs the Galactic Empire; Wolverine McWank would quite easily win the fight, despite the fact that we might wish it otherwise.
Now if we included Deadpool, he'd have a chance of winning against Wolverine and being utterly hilarious about it.
#5
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:42 am
by Batman
Wolverine, because of his asinine healing powers. And Cap's shield is made of vibranium, not adamantium.
#6
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:45 am
by frigidmagi
Actually they had this fight once. Captain America won, why? Because he's fucking smarter.
#7
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:35 am
by B4UTRUST
Actually cap'n won because he knocked out wolvie after wolvie had taken considerable damage from other sources. Rachel Summers and Cyclops being two of them. The guy's skin was melting off even with his healing factor. And the knockout shot? It was a sucker shot from behind when Wolvie was otherwise engaged.
That's a cheap win there.
But lets face it. Wolverine would win this.
Fighting Styles:
Cap'n America has boxing, jiu jitsu, and judo, as well as approximately say what? 50 odd years of actual fighting experiance? This is going from the 40s in which he was moved into Operation: Rebirth. This is also counting the very times in which he went into suspended animation for various reasons(going nuts, body deterioriting, etc.). He's government trained and has long mastered throwing and using his shield.
Wolverine is a known master of nearly every form or martial arts and fighting style, both armed and unarmed. He also has what is estimated at over 100 years of fighting experiance.
Powers:
Cap'n has no powers by himself. The serum, however, puts his body at the top physical condition a normal human body could be. Read that again. Normal human body. He's still not a mutant. However, for the sake of arguement lets see what he does get from the serum: Captain America is as intelligent, strong, fast, agile, and durable as it is possible for a human being to be without being considered superhuman. The formula enhances all of his metabolic functions and prevents the build-up of fatigue poisons in his muscles, giving him endurance far in excess of an ordinary human being. This accounts for many of his extraordinary feats, including running a mile in a little more than a minute. Rogers is also unable to become intoxicated by alcohol and is immune to many diseases.
So he's as strong, fast, durable, and agile as a human can get. Good for him. Wolverine is not a human.
Wolverine's powers: His ungodly regenerative ability. Shown at varying levels over the years has ranged from fast healing to being able to regenerate entire organs to regenerating his entire body after being incinerated(Wolverine vol3 #43). His stamina levels are such as that he fought toe to toe with Omega Doom for 18 hours dispite being nearly continiously subjected to Doom's death spoors. His senses are heightened to superhuman levels and his reflexes would make a shadowrunner's move by wire seem slow. He's been shown to be capable of dodging Cyclopse's energy blast at point blank(Wolverine Origins#5). His skeletal system is laced with adamantium, allowing him to cut through just about anything, save adamantium, energy shields, or cap'n america's shield.
I think that saying America would win simply because Wolverine is less well liked is bad form here.
Oh, and for the record. Wolverine has kicked Amercia's ass. Twice.
Captain America #404, Wolverine Origins #4-5. So America loses this one hands down.
#8
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:50 am
by frigidmagi
Wolverine is a known master of nearly every form or martial arts and fighting style, both armed and unarmed. He also has what is estimated at over 100 years of fighting experiance.
Bullshit, Wolverine has shown no knowledge of martial arts outside of Ninjisto, Juisito, boxing and frenzy.
At no time has he shown knowledge of Kung Fu, Tai wan do, Sambo, or hundreds of other martial arts around the world. The martials arts are not just Japan. Also note Wolverine does not often use his knowledge of martial arts, in the vast majority of his fights he abadons such knowledge for the old fashioned scream and leap.
Also note, Wolverine does not have over a 100 years of combat experience because he doesn't fucking remember it. An experience you don't remember going through is one you didn't have. Therefore Wolverine does not have over a 100 years of combat experience, say thank you to Weapon X and the Canadian Government for that.
Captain America has also defeated Wolverine in Ultimates vs X Men, through mindfuckery. This makes it 2 to 2 and open to vote.
#9
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:50 am
by Cynical Cat
Ultimate Captain America can win the fight. Regular Captain America is toast.
#10
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:51 am
by frigidmagi
That depends, do we get badass no guilt Cap, or Captain America the super guilty, bad twisted image of a liberal?
#11
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:04 pm
by Cynical Cat
Ultimate Captain America is always ready to throw down and fights pretty dirty. He also packs heat. Sure Wolverine can regenerate, but he's much easier to finish with when he's down and has been riddled with bullet.
#12
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:12 pm
by frigidmagi
This is true. I never understood where a WWII vet got a rampent refusal to use firearms from anyways.
#13
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:15 pm
by Cynical Cat
frigidmagi wrote:This is true. I never understood where a WWII vet got a rampent refusal to use firearms from anyways.
He regularily packs on M16 and started off a fight with Thor by using a flamethrower. Ultimate Captain America fights to win.
#14
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:16 pm
by Narsil
frigidmagi wrote:This is true. I never understood where a WWII vet got a rampent refusal to use firearms from anyways.
Out of universe reason: "Think of the children!" Apply to almost every comic book in existance which was made before the more modern and 'grown up' eras.
In-universe reason: post traumatic stress from seeing so many people getting wounded by gunfire, perhaps?
#15
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:49 pm
by Josh
Out of universe reason is as Narsil said. Plus, regularly gunning down the opposition makes it hard to have recurring villains.
#16
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:57 pm
by Cynical Cat
Petrosjko wrote:Out of universe reason is as Narsil said. Plus, regularly gunning down the opposition makes it hard to have recurring villains.
Constantly reccuring villians are a crutch. Besides, anyone you want to reuse latter can fall into a river after being shot or survive and bust out of prison latter like everyone else.
#17
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:52 pm
by frigidmagi
Actually with modern medical care the vast majority of people shot survive. For example the wounded rate in the Iraq war is 19,000 which is leagues vaster than the death rate isn't it?
#18
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:59 pm
by B4UTRUST
frigidmagi wrote:Wolverine is a known master of nearly every form or martial arts and fighting style, both armed and unarmed. He also has what is estimated at over 100 years of fighting experiance.
Bullshit, Wolverine has shown no knowledge of martial arts outside of Ninjisto, Juisito, boxing and frenzy.
At no time has he shown knowledge of Kung Fu, Tai wan do, Sambo, or hundreds of other martial arts around the world. The martials arts are not just Japan. Also note Wolverine does not often use his knowledge of martial arts, in the vast majority of his fights he abadons such knowledge for the old fashioned scream and leap.
Also note, Wolverine does not have over a 100 years of combat experience because he doesn't fucking remember it. An experience you don't remember going through is one you didn't have. Therefore Wolverine does not have over a 100 years of combat experience, say thank you to Weapon X and the Canadian Government for that.
Captain America has also defeated Wolverine in Ultimates vs X Men, through mindfuckery. This makes it 2 to 2 and open to vote.
He used Kung-fu to defeat Shang-Chi in Xmen Vol 1 #62. Shang-chi at the time was also considered the world's greatest kung-fu master in the marvel 'verse.
He has known knowledge and use of si-fan on multiple occassions when fighting the Hand throughout the series.
He has been shown to be a martial arts instructor at Xavier's school, teaching of all things Tai Chi.
Also, he has shown knowledge and use of techniques that he does not recall knowing. Mostly on pure instinct in battle.
Refering to both the marvel database and marvel directory both state that he has mastered nearly every fighting style in the world.
And saying that the Cap'n will outsmart or outthink Logan is iffy. Forge mentioned in one issue during the 90's that Wolverine's preformance was that of an olympic level gymnast preforming a gold medal winning preformance while simultaniously beating four chess computers in his head. That's fairly impressive.
And lets see here... both times that the Cap'n managed to get the upper hand on Wolvie it's because of mindfuckery or dirty deeds. In a one on one physical contest the cap'n doesn't have a fucking chance. Nothing short of decapitation and seperation of his head by a football field's length is going to put the guy down permanently.
Wolverine beat the Winter Soldier when the Winter Soldier had a perfect setup ready to destroy him(Winter Soldier being Bucky, Cap'n's former sidekick). Wolverine also has a record of 22-5 vs Sabertooth and has gone toe to toe with Deadpool on a couple of occassions, never having lost to him that I recall. These last two are not exactly no name fighters either. Again he also fought Omega Red for 18 hours, battling through numerous death spoor infections and life force drains.
And to give one more example, Mr. X. Mr. X challenged the world's best fighters to claim the title of the best. He managed to beat the shit out of everyone save for Wolverine, who kicked his ass in a 2-1 match.
So really Cap'n has never fought Wolverine one on one in an true hand to hand fight at won. Mindfuckery and fighting an already beaten down Wolverine not withstanding, Cap'n doesn't have a chance.
#19
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:12 pm
by frigidmagi
Code: Select all
He used Kung-fu to defeat Shang-Chi in Xmen Vol 1 #62. Shang-chi at the time was also considered the world's greatest kung-fu master in the marvel 'verse.
He has known knowledge and use of si-fan on multiple occassions when fighting the Hand throughout the series.
Okay then I'll grant those, although I find the Kung Fu thing iffy, I thought greatest Kung Fu master ever was Iron Fist's deal.
He has been shown to be a martial arts instructor at Xavier's school, teaching of all things Tai Chi.
Tai Chi is not a combat martial art. It is a medation techinque and does not take much to master.
Also, he has shown knowledge and use of techniques that he does not recall knowing. Mostly on pure instinct in battle.
To inconsistant to be relied upon in combat, might as well base your tactics on God coming down to fight for you, Next.
Refering to both the marvel database and marvel directory both state that he has mastered nearly every fighting style in the world.
As been shown to be inaccurate. There's a reason alot of folks don't use it. Also Marvel has shown a rather caviler attuidue towards matching the comics with this, so thanks but no.
Forge mentioned in one issue during the 90's that Wolverine's preformance was that of an olympic level gymnast preforming a gold medal winning preformance while simultaniously beating four chess computers in his head. That's fairly impressive.
And Data from Startrek has said bullshit how often? Forge is not a combat authority. In fact in combat he's been wrong quiet often. No thanks.
And lets see here... both times that the Cap'n managed to get the upper hand on Wolvie it's because of mindfuckery or dirty deeds. In a one on one physical contest the cap'n doesn't have a fucking chance
And Captain America's business is suriviving and prospering a world where he is outgunned by everyone and their Cat. Also mindfuckery and dirty tricks are as much a part of battle as punching and certainly mean more in combat effectivness than Tai Chi. Wolverine is actually weaker physically then some of Cap's past oppotents. Next Please.
Wolverine beat the Winter Soldier when the Winter Soldier had a perfect setup ready to destroy him(Winter Soldier being Bucky, Cap'n's former sidekick).
Bucky=/=Captain America.
Wolverine also has a record of 22-5 vs Sabertooth and has gone toe to toe with Deadpool on a couple of occassions, never having lost to him that I recall. These last two are not exactly no name fighters either. Again he also fought Omega Red for 18 hours, battling through numerous death spoor infections and life force drains.
Captain America has defeated Kang, Red Skull and others when they had the cosmic cube and the next best thing to being God. Next.
And to give one more example, Mr. X. Mr. X challenged the world's best fighters to claim the title of the best. He managed to beat the shit out of everyone save for Wolverine, who kicked his ass in a 2-1 match.
How about you tell the whole story. Mr. X was a telepath who speciallize in reading your mind on what you did next. Wolverine beat him by going batshit crazy enough that he didn't know what he would do next negating Mr. X's advantage. Since Captain is super depenent on a power that he doesn't have... Next.
#20 Re: Captain America vs Wolverine
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:24 am
by Ali Sama
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:One is the best hand-to-hand combatant of the Avengers, while the other is the best among the X-Men. One has adamantium shield, while the other has adamantium claws. So who will win in hand-to-hand combat against each other?
captain america's shield is vibradium fused with a steel alloy. the admantium refrences is an error as admantium is a newer development. Wolverin/logan/games has true admantium laced bones. Not the cheap stuff.
ali
ps. here is a link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America%27s_shield
Rogers' indestructible shield has often been referred to as being an adamantium-vibranium alloy. This is not the case: adamantium was only developed after Rogers was revived from suspended animation, during MacLain's later experiments to try and duplicate the material of the shield (the substance made its first appearance in Avengers Vol. 1 #66, July 1969).
The adamantium-vibranium error first arose in the Captain America entry in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe (the composition of the shield was accurately described in the adamantium entry) and was propagated in several subsequent stories by writers using the Handbook as a reference. Writer Kurt Busiek finally set the record straight in Avengers Annual 2001, establishing there that the shield is made of vibranium and steel
#21
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:31 am
by Ali Sama
frigidmagi wrote:Wolverine is a known master of nearly every form or martial arts and fighting style, both armed and unarmed. He also has what is estimated at over 100 years of fighting experiance.
Bullshit, Wolverine has shown no knowledge of martial arts outside of Ninjisto, Juisito, boxing and frenzy.
At no time has he shown knowledge of Kung Fu, Tai wan do, Sambo, or hundreds of other martial arts around the world. The martials arts are not just Japan. Also note Wolverine does not often use his knowledge of martial arts, in the vast majority of his fights he abadons such knowledge for the old fashioned scream and leap.
Also note, Wolverine does not have over a 100 years of combat experience because he doesn't fucking remember it. An experience you don't remember going through is one you didn't have. Therefore Wolverine does not have over a 100 years of combat experience, say thank you to Weapon X and the Canadian Government for that.
Captain America has also defeated Wolverine in Ultimates vs X Men, through mindfuckery. This makes it 2 to 2 and open to vote.
James has full recolection of his past as of house of M.
#22
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:52 am
by Hedgecore
frigidmagi wrote:
Tai Chi is not a combat martial art. It is a medation techinque and does not take much to master.
Have to disagree. Just because you can't kick the snot out of someone with it doesn't make it any easier to learn much less
master. It is an internal style, but it is much more than simply meditation. Mastering tai chi takes the same amount of training and dedication as any of the external styles.
Kind of a tangent, but I had to put it out there.
That said, Wolverine wins, mainly for the reasons B4UTRUST put out, but also for the exact opposite reason as Petro and Stofsk: I effing hate the Captain
Of course, the extent of every character's abilities fluctuate based on the writer, making conclusions iffy at best.