LibriumArcana.Games

I want to take a bit to talk about psychics. Now I'll be honest if I had my druthers, psychics would belong to fantasy (much like how I annexed the transformers for the fantasy forum) but they're in sci-fi so I'll have to deal with that.

That said, there's an issue with psychics and while some series have touched on it not all of them do. What do you do with a minority that is not visibly different from the majority but individually massively more powerful on average?

The average psychic in fiction can read mind, or move things through mental effort alone, or use various elemental powers (fire starters being the most famous, though an air mover would be much more terrifying at least to this native of tornado alley). How do you control that? And to be blunt a society kinda has to. It has to provide guidance on the proper use and etiquette of these powers and sanctions for misuse. How does a nonpsychic however, catch a psychic? And if you do catch them how do you keep them?

For the purpose of this conversation let's disregard any miracle techs or drugs that suppress the psychic's ability, I'm not knocking their use in fiction but to me it seems kinda of an easy out. Instead I'm suggesting we take the position of a society here that has just confronted this and now has to deal with it.

So let's talk, what's the best way of dealing with psychics and the issues of psychic power use? How do you police them? When are they allowed to use their powers and who on? How do you protect others from them and them from others?

It would be kind of like having a person with a powerful weapon, only one which they can't drop. I guess this means they have to be detected early on and have registry as mandatory as for any other powerful weapon. There would no doubt be no-go areas, just as for people carrying guns.

There would be people opposing this registry, just as for the gun registry, but there would be less sympathy for the anti-registration guys among the general population. After all, anti gun-control is all about helping the average person having personal protection against the elite.

The powers that be would hire psychics to police other psychics. Depending on how powers work, they might also be terrified of the psychics taking over (which they may actually have done already, for all anyone knows). How a non-psychic deals with the psychics depends on how powerful they are and whether he has access to the registry among other things.

Couple of questions, though: How hostile and/or mistrustful is the general culture to the existence of psychics? How do these powers work, since that is important too.

As an example of "how it works", does psychic use leave "fingerprints" or something like them on the victim? If you can prove that such and such a psychic was the one whodunit that makes a huge difference to how they are treated, since then not all of them are automatically suspect with no way to know what is going on. This goes double if you also have some kind of techno based psychic detectors.

In my mind, psionics/magic/force/etc. is just the catchall "awesome" power that simply changes terms depending on the universe. It's meant to be the mystical, rare, cannot-be-explained-but-lets-you-be-awesome ability.

In D&D terms (uh oh), psionics are just another type of magic in my mind; that's how I've always thought of them.

I have problems with psionics in say, scifi settings. Unless they have a logical reason for existing, I just see it as magic-by-another-name. A rare exception would be Babylon 5, purely because JMS did the most logical extension of what a real-world psionic society would look like, and at least had it that it wasn't an evolutionary step or part of some 'latent' talent that all humans are capable of, but rather deliberate tinkering done by the vorlons.

I forgave it for that.

So let's talk, what's the best way of dealing with psychics and the issues of psychic power use? How do you police them? When are they allowed to use their powers and who on? How do you protect others from them and them from others?

1. Regulation, and oversight. You don't have to go down the PSICorps route, but it would seem to be too tempting not to. Some kind of registration would be a mandatory minimum. If psychics exist and it's a proven phenomenon, there are too many dangers from potentially unscrupulous individuals who can steal your thoughts, mind rape you, use TK to assault or even murder you, use clairvoyance to evade detection and stay one step ahead, and just be rather dangerous individuals. Their mind's a powerful weapon. Ok, so they were born like that, they can't help that - but if they want to exist in society, they have to be placed at a higher standard as everyone else, because they're not quite like everyone else. That doesn't need to mean strip away their rights and so on, but it does mean having to abide by greater restrictions on the use of their powers in a way that doesn't harm the community at large. Hell even the Jedi have an order and organisation (even though Jedi lean more toward the 'magic' side of the equation).

2. Police them using other psychic adepts. The PSIcop, basically. They don't have to dress in all-black and be big meanies though.

3. Similar set up to B5. You'd have commercial telepaths who are simply there to assist in the brokering of deals. You'd have counselors who can help people come to terms with some trauma or problem they're having, so like Troi from TNG. Empaths might even be entertainers, if it could be used like that (make everyone feel good at their shows or something? I dunno). You'd have telepaths in a variety of service roles, the two most obvious are law enforcement and search and rescue. Telepathic investigators would be a huge asset to law enforcement, considering you can tell if someone is lying or not when being interrogated, to also being able to see what a witness saw. Forget about such evidence not being admissable - either the law would change to allow it or those techniques would still be used, but in a supportive way to more conventional evidence gathering procedures. As for search and rescue, telepaths would be able to find people trapped under rubble simply by hearing their thoughts. The only way this wouldn't work is if the person is injured and has been rendered unconscious and not thinking at all, but in cases where someone is injured and can't communicate but is otherwise conscious, then having a telepath would be very useful. Another application is in medicine. Telepaths might be able to get a more 'empathic' feel for what is wrong with a person, allowing diagnoses to be quicker and easier. Assuming it's possible, they may even be able to assist someone who is in a coma, or is not in a coma but is paralysed and cannot communicate. There have been many horror stories of people who literally cannot move a single muscle in their bodies except for an eyelid, or a digit, or something. A telepath might be able to help them communicate a hell of a lot better and more easier than normal. Diplomats, translators, interpreters, there are probably more applications you could think of. Criminal rehabilitation. It sounds Orwellian, but the reality is if psychics was a real phenomenon, you'd bet your ass people would be employed to determine whether a criminal ought to be paroled. And while the spectre of forced mental reprogramming is hard to shake, I think a lot of people would accept something like that rather than let convicted criminals get parole where there is no guarantee they won't commit a further crime. I haven't even mentioned intelligence gathering.

4. Isn't this the same question as how do you police them?

Cat wrote:Moved, by me, because psychics are fantasy.

Whooooo! All Hail Fantasy! Cat when I at last annex the other forums you will be set high in the councils. Promise.

Minx wrote:Couple of questions, though: How hostile and/or mistrustful is the general culture to the existence of psychics? How do these powers work, since that is important too.

I'm trying to keep this as general as possible here Minx so forget about how the powers work. As for the general culture, again being as general as possible I don't have a specific culture in mind. I did say we're in the 1st generation here though, psychics are new and have just been proven. So it's quite likely the general population hasn't made up it's mind yet. This also means we don't have any magic-tech dohickies to make this easier. To be honest those always seemed like a shortcut to me anyways (psychics could be a problem but we now have the magic mind scanner and null collar yay!). I'm a mean guy what can I say.

I will say this for the culture, let's say it's a generally sci-fi culture as my thought is if Psychics showed up before the industrial revolution they would turn themselves into the ruling class pretty quick. Let's also say there's a general belief in the rights of the individual and such so murdering them all in their sleep isn't within our reach.

As for the powers also keeping it general. They're not limitless, so this isn't an entire race of Professor X's or Supermen. Let's also say that the powers tend to show up in the teen years... Because it's tradition.

And now Stofsk!

1: What kinda higher standards are we talking about here? Are we gonna punish them more if they break laws in a mundane way (like... shoplifting for example).

2: So basically count on them to police themselves? Is there any mundane oversight?

3: Would these be separate organizations? Would membership in these organizations be mandatory? Are these government or private organizations?

4: No, not really. See I'm asking how do you protect society from psychics as a group? What steps do you take to make sure we're not all waking up tomorrow singing praises to our new Overlords? Also how do you keep them from being lynched or discriminated against unfairly? Would there be a thing as fair discrimination? "I sorry but as a psychic you're not allowed into D.C, to many secrets floating around you understand?"

Here's another question, y'all are saying they have to register. How long do they have to register? What's the crime if they don't? If they ignore it or are unsure or nervous and wait for a year out of hope that if they wish hard enough it'll go away? At what point does not being registered become a crime? Also whose suppose to find unregistered psychics? The Psi Cops? Doctors at hospitals? Parents?

Lastly are they allowed to become part of the government? Could a Psychic be allowed to be Prime Minister of Australia? President of the US? Should they be allowed?

frigidmagi wrote:This also means we don't have any magic-tech dohickies to make this easier. To be honest those always seemed like a shortcut to me anyways (psychics could be a problem but we now have the magic mind scanner and null collar yay!). I'm a mean guy what can I say.

Well, OK. :)

But does "no magical doohickey" mean no psychic fingerprints at all (as opposed to active scanners)?

Like I said, that's going to be really important. Imagine the level of mistrust felt by the general population towards psychics if there is no way to determine guilt or innocence of a given psychic after the mayor's brain just melted. In that case I think they'll be treated poorly, civil rights culture or no. They would become lone individuals trying to hide their powers, and every one of them a suspect for whatever weird stuff happens.

But if there is any way to "fingerprint" them, that changes immediately. Then they're just another type of citizen who can be held accountable for their actions by the general public. Of course they might well cause unease in some, just as some might mistrust a person who can routinely and remotely hack into your personal information and/or who has a bazooka built into his arm. But they can still be a part of general society.

An interesting special case is if the only way to "fingerprint" is by psychic powers. Then mistrust might remain high by the general population, but the psychics themselves would probably go all vigilante on the perpetrators, basically policing themselves to eliminate suspicion and insure their safety from the mobs. Their temptation would be to go beyond just that and get into the Illuminati business in order to insure their safety (and then prosperity). These vigilantes might well be mistrusted too, due to the Illuminati option, regardless of whether they've actually taken it.


So to summarize: people's treatment of the psychics will depend heavily on the extent to which they can be held accountable for their psychic actions, and in turn, this will depend heavily on to the extent to which a given psychic action can be tied to a specific psychic.

frigidmagi wrote:And now Stofsk!

1: What kinda higher standards are we talking about here? Are we gonna punish them more if they break laws in a mundane way (like... shoplifting for example).

Nah. Unless it could be proved that they used their powers for an unfair advantage. I'm more or less talking about instilling a strong ethic to use their powers responsibly. How you do that... I haven't the faintest.

2: So basically count on them to police themselves? Is there any mundane oversight?

A better question would be: is mundane oversight even possible? See 4 as well.

3: Would these be separate organizations? Would membership in these organizations be mandatory? Are these government or private organizations?

I can actually see telepaths banding together for their mutual benefit without necessarily being forced to by the mundanes.

4: No, not really. See I'm asking how do you protect society from psychics as a group?

Very hard to do. I suppose there might be technological methods to counter psionics. (I'm approaching this from a scifi setting despite this being in the fantasy forum)

Say for example, a Magneto style psi-blocking helmet. Or psionic free zones, which have psi-jamming devices (think analogous to those devices that block mobile phones in high-risk high-security areas). Assuming a half-way pseudo-scientific explanation for psionics exists, and operate on a kind of weird wavelength, it might be possible to interfere with that wavelength or frequency or something. Maybe a psionic gets a headache if he's in the area, and using his powers is far more strenuous.

What steps do you take to make sure we're not all waking up tomorrow singing praises to our new Overlords?

Round them up, take away their rights, and sterilise them so they can't breed and presumably spread their psionic powers to the next generation. Failing that, be nice to them and hope they don't get uppity.

Also how do you keep them from being lynched or discriminated against unfairly?

Punish those that do lynching or practice discriminatory practices.

Would there be a thing as fair discrimination? "I sorry but as a psychic you're not allowed into D.C, to many secrets floating around you understand?"

The problem is there will be a natural distrust of telepaths for obvious reasons. But what can you do? If you piss them off, they will grow resentful at being discriminated against, especially since they have superior powers. If you give them too much leeway, you're basically inviting them to take over and hoping they don't.

Here's another question, y'all are saying they have to register. How long do they have to register?

For life, I would imagine.

What's the crime if they don't?

Probably a fine, or if you want to be draconian then imprisonment and forced registration.

If they ignore it or are unsure or nervous and wait for a year out of hope that if they wish hard enough it'll go away? At what point does not being registered become a crime? Also whose suppose to find unregistered psychics? The Psi Cops? Doctors at hospitals? Parents?

Walter Koenig dressed all in black.

Lastly are they allowed to become part of the government? Could a Psychic be allowed to be Prime Minister of Australia? President of the US? Should they be allowed?

There are a couple ways this could go down.

B5 had two ways. First the PSICorps, which has that lovely draconian and orwellian flavour to it. Telepaths are stripped of their rights, placed into an institution from the moment they're born. Its heavily implied they're indoctrinated too. Stragglers and rogues are hunted down like dogs. Laws exist that restrict what telepaths can and can't do (like they can't join the military).

Then after the Telepath Wars, things seem to have 'normalised'. That asian telepath onboard the Excalibur on 'Crusade' appeared to be left to his own devices, for one thing he was allowed to join EarthForce. There was no PSICorps. I think telepaths were supposed to be registered, but otherwise left alone. I don't know how much things changed because that period in B5 history is a bit vague.

Then you have Traveller, which depicted the zhodani (a race of human telepaths that have existed for thousands of years, and who have the longest running and most stable interstellar government in human history). How are they stable? Telepaths rule the roost. Zhodani society is caste based, with the telepaths comprising the ruling elite. Below them are the intendant caste, kind of like middle-management, which has potential forward mobility if children of intendant parents show psionic potential (I think intendants are also psionic, but I'm not sure). Then you have the proles, who are right at the bottom. Proles are actually the vast majority of people in the zhodani consulate. Crime is rare - telepaths can sense if you're planning something, and if caught and imprisoned seem to reprogram/rehabilitate you.

(incidentally, a similar punishment exists in B5. Forced memory deletion - murderers are turned into productive and mild members of society by being sentenced to telepathic reconditioning)

Zhodani neighbour the more libertarian and aggressive Imperium, who consider them mindbending control freaks. Good times.

Here's another question, y'all are saying they have to register. How long do they have to register?

For life, I would imagine.

You misunderstand. Let's say I am a psychic in your system. At Midnight Monday I find out I am psychic. How long do I have to register before I am breaking the law? A day? A week? A year?

I'm unsure, probably depends on how psychic phenomena are detected. If it's a genetic thing, it might be something picked up at birth (assuming psychic phenomena are widespread and accepted enough for a policy to be enacted whereby newly born infants are screened to see if they have the psi-gene).

For a more x-men system (mutantism is latent and the onset of puberty triggers it), I guess is trickier, because you're talking about teenagagers who have up until now, lived a normal life. With a baby, you can raise it from the start with the knowledge that they're psychic or will develop psychic powers. But with x-men style mutants, its harder to predict. That said, it would require some kind of Xavier institute (I don't advocate the kind of antagonistic approach that stupid humans do in the x-men universe, rather Xavier has the right idea as a benevolent instructor who runs a special school).

Note that in the first scenario, registration will be almost always automatic, if babies carry a gene and can be screened early on. Boom your baby is registered and can get special attention and training. In the latter case, things are more difficult, simply because not every teenager or young adult will want to abide by the law.

So you're suggesting alot of separation here. Are you sure about that?

frigidmagi wrote:So you're suggesting alot of separation here. Are you sure about that?

What's the alternative? It needn't have nefarious connotations. If it were treated as a kind of boarding school for special youngsters I wouldn't necessarily foresee a problem with it.

What is your idea?

Thing is, separation is a bad idea for people who are different skin tones, different sexual orientations, and different beliefs, because those people are fundamentally no different from anyone else and can provide no tangible threat to society or others as a whole.

Psychics, however, can topple societies because they had advantages nobody else has. Depending on their abilities, they can kill without a trace, destroy the minds of the people around them, manipulate others to do their bidding, it's a dangerous situation, and separating them into an environment where they can learn to use their powers constructively and weed out the bad eggs is not a terrible idea.

There's no simple solution here. Psychics are dangerous, and the long term solutions are getting everyone to par or removing them from the norm in some way. Then there's the perceptions. Are psychics more than human, not human any more, the next phase in human evolution, or a dangerous mutation? Let's not forget that in our modern world with asymmetrical warfare, psychics are a powerful weapon and likely to be in the hands of dangerous people. In third world nations, cults will form up around powerful psychics, witch hunts may target anyone suspected of psychic power, including just naturally perceptive people. In the corporate world, they'll be used for espionage, exceptionally persuasive lobbyists, and so on.

Without supertech to detect psychics, at best we're relying on other psychics, which we have to hope are loyal, but it's a whole new layer of crime, war, and law enforcement to have to deal with.