His Majesty's Dragons

[LadyTevar]

Frigid?

FUCK YOU, Get out of this thread, and don't come back. You don't play the game, so you have NO SAY in this matter.

Thanks for wasting our time and pages. If I still had Admin powers, I'd have sent this conversation to the trash two pages ago. It's been useless and pointless, because the whole argument boils down to you saying "Wah Wah, it wasn't like that in The Real World", when all along that was the POINT!

Yeah, and we have DRAGONS in the Real World?! Fuck off, go cry in private. If you don't like the History, then DON'T READ THE THREAD.

[Avian Obscurities]

I worked at a zoo for a time, so I know that the proper care and feeding of trolls is simply to ignore them, but I just cant help but add this:

"No I won't discuss this in PM or over AIM, debates (or screaming arguments if you prefer) should either be entirely in public or in private"

Private means taking it to instant-messaging. kthx.

[Cynical Cat]

frigid has every right to make those posts, as havoc has every right to make rule as GM that his version is game history. Frankly, the world is grossly logically inconsistent and shouldn't have a history even vaguely like ours event if its physical laws made sense.

[General Havoc]

1:

NEVER before has anything like the Russian Revolution happened in Europe. Not in the French Revolution. Not in the Paris Commune. Not in the revolutions of 1848, not in any event in the history of Europe at all.

Did you even bother to look up the 1848 rebellions which spanned from France to Poland?

2:

[A]s there are no inevitabilities in History, I will simply say that I believe it [Hitler and Mussolini's rise to power] to be the most likely outcome.

And yet you seen determine that Hitler and Mossolini's rise will take place no matter what. Ironic.

3:

To release the sum total of the world info that I have planned for this game would slay you all under a wall of crushing text. Accordingly I shall be providing this information in an "as it becomes relevant" manner. You'll all see what I mean.

Communism has been slaughtered in it's biggest attempt yet. Does it change anything? Nope. Not a thing. Everything remains just the same. Some exploration you got there. You've changed the Russian event and then... done no exploration of what other changes this makes to history.

[....]

I happen to know you can do much better then that.

Ladies and gentlemen, if I may:

I will not ever be told that I am not bothering to think about a given historical issue.

As I said once before, Frigid is perfectly free to find fault with my historical reasoning. I am, after all, human, and capable of making mistakes. This much does not surprise me. However, the insinuation that I simply wasn't even thinking of these matters at all when I created this historical background is something SO ludicrous that I scarcely know what to say.

I before stated that I would not dump all of my background history on people to avoid shattering their eyes on walls of text. I protested that this was simply because the matters in question were of no bearing on the game itself, and that my basic explanations for how things got to be the way they were would suffice for the layman's perspective. I also did not wish to appear to be excessive in my background, for fear of scaring everyone away who does not share my obsessions with the rise and fall of societies. I pleaded with everyone to bear with me as a result, because the elements in question were not relevant, and therefore I had not bothered to provide.

Well... since apparently not wishing to go into exhaustive detail on elements that have no bearing on the game is the same as not thinking about it at all, and grounds for mockery... I am changing my mind.

I regret that I must therefore postpone my IC duties, in favor instead of an exhaustive history of Communist movements in Europe, 1919-1940. I have a great deal of names and dates to re-familiarize myself with, and research to do, so this effort may take me some time, and for that I apologize. I will say at this time that said history contains neither communist Sweden nor any of the other... suggestions... that Frigid posted above, but instead my own views on how the events of that period turned out. This evidence, unless I should later choose to turn it to my advantage, will have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the game itself, which is why I didn't do this originally. It is a useless waste of time, written to placate people who do not care to read what I say in the first place,

But I will not be told that I am not "bothering" to think about an issue I have in fact spent a great deal of time thinking about. And since "it is not important for our purposes here" is apparently tantamount to "I am too lazy to think", I shall therefore show that I have placed some thought into this game.

The result shall be posted as soon as I can write it.

[rhoenix]

Thanks for the dick moves, guys. Now, I am going to read Havoc' alt. history when he finishes it, because I'm a reader - it's what I do - but this is just silly.

Now, Frigid, Cyncat, if you want to write the social and psychological impacts of dragons of this sort being a part of human civilization from the barest frightened peeks out of a safe cave to how dragons would work within the Information Age, including all possible bends and changes in history as a result, fine.

Until then, shut the fuck up.

[Charon]

Ok. That's enough of that. I am petitioning an Admin, or a mod, or whatever, to split this discussion if it is going to continue (which I frankly think it will), because as Havoc said, it has zero bearing on the actual game anymore. Frigid brought up a good point, Havoc answered it to the satisfaction of everyone playing the game. It is now no longer part of our concern. The only person who is displeased by the answer is someone who isn't playing, so frankly, Frigid, you and your opinion can jump off a bridge.

Should Frigid continue this debate, and further stall this game, I will be very very angry.

Havoc, please do not stall the game to try and prove to someone who has their head so far stuck up their own ass they can't see that while your answer may not be perfect, it is more than adequate.

Frigid, learn what the hell Suspension of Disbelief is, and if your SoD is not to the task of something slightly historically inaccurate, then just shut the hell up and move on. You're not in the game so it's not your concern.

[Cynical Cat]

Frigid is doing nothing to stall the game. He's criticizing Havoc's history in the appropriate thread. Havoc can address frigid's points or ignore them as he sees fit. That's his call, but if he delays the game to argue points with frigid, that's on Havoc not frigid.

[rhoenix]

Frigid is doing nothing to stall the game. He's criticizing Havoc's history in the appropriate thread. Havoc can address frigid's points or ignore them as he sees fit. That's his call, but if he delays the game to argue points with frigid, that's on Havoc not frigid.

Does it have to do directly with us playing the game? yes/no
Does it have to do directly with a character Frigid is playing? yes/no
Does it have to do directly with the current game of HMD? yes/no

I'm seeing "no" to all three of those - therefore, it does not belong in the OOC thread. Period.

[Avian Obscurities]

Yeah, uh, i want to talk about other things, and right now I feel silly bringing it up in the middle of all this flamewar.

[Cynical Cat]

All commentary goes into the OOC thread. You're just pissed that Havoc decided to suspend the game because arguing about his fake history with a non-player is more important to him than keeping up his glacial posting speed.

[General Havoc]

All commentary goes into the OOC thread. You're just pissed that Havoc decided to suspend the game because arguing about his fake history with a non-player is more important to him than keeping up his glacial posting speed.

Well I'm sorry, Cyncat, that the time I take writing multi-page posts is interfering with your ability to write your one-sentence answers.

Frigid's head is not up his ass. He has made historical points which I have answered to the best of my ability, and has impugned that I have failed to think about the answers I gave. I wish to remove all doubt on that subject. What I write may be right or it may be wrong, but I'm not going to be told in a thread I created that I'm not bothering to think. I have intentionally not answered these questions to the best of my ability, not deeming it worth the time. That was unkind of me. I shall now do so.

It honestly won't take that long. I write pretty quick when I'm annoyed.


EDIT: Cynical Cat does however make a good point. It is equally unkind of me to make everyone else wait while I deal with this matter. I will therefore post IC first, and THEN infodump this Communism stuff.

[rhoenix]

All commentary goes into the OOC thread. You're just pissed that Havoc decided to suspend the game because arguing about his fake history with a non-player is more important to him than keeping up his glacial posting speed.

And you're mistaken, like usual when you make assumptions.

I was annoyed that Frigid kept pressing in this thread, since I don't blame Havoc for responding as he did.

Did Frigid have valid intellectual reasons for asking the questions he did? Yes. Did Frigid show good judgement in doing so in the same OOC thread where gameplay takes place, knowing full well that Havoc would throw everything he has into his arguments, as he does with all his other posting? No, he did not.

Did you show good judgement by encouraging this universe-related, but not game-related sidetrack to continue in this thread? No, you did not.

I'm as interested in reading this as the next person, but as an adjunctive interest to the game - NOT as an interruption to the game itself. Therefore, I formally request a thread split of the mods.

[Cynical Cat]

Well I'm sorry, Cyncat, that the time I take writing multi-page posts is interfering with your ability to write your one-sentence answers.

My answers are as long or as short as I feel they need to be. If you want them to be longer, I'll take that into consideration. Posting time won't be seriously affected.

Did Frigid have valid intellectual reasons for asking the questions he did? Yes. Did Frigid show good judgement in doing so in the same OOC thread where gameplay takes place, knowing full well that Havoc would throw everything he has into his arguments, as he does with all his other posting? No, he did not.

Did you show good judgement by encouraging this universe-related, but not game-related sidetrack to continue in this thread? No, you did not.

So arguing over the content of a post in the thread where the statement is posted is exercising "bad judgment"? Sure you want to stick by that position?


Fact is, we can post around this with ease. We can split it into another thread as well. Either way isn't a problem, but it is entirely appropriate for frigid to have posted in this thread and if Havoc feels that will slow down his somewhat faster than Hotfoot's GM posting schedule in order to respond to frigid, who isn't exactly the fastest posting person on this board, then that's Havoc's call and it's on Havoc.

[rhoenix]

So arguing over the content of a post in the thread where the statement is posted is exercising "bad judgment"? Sure you want to stick by that position?

Only in the regard that it effectively led to a thread hijack as a result. An interesting and related thread hijack, but a thread hijack nonetheless.

Fact is, we can post around this with ease. We can split it into another thread as well. Either way isn't a problem, but it is entirely appropriate for frigid to have posted in this thread and if Havoc feels that will slow down his somewhat faster than Hotfoot's GM posting schedule in order to respond to frigid, who isn't exactly the fastest posting person on this board, then that's Havoc's call and it's on Havoc.

I will cautiously agree in the regard that the idea of taking this elsewhere should have come up sooner, so as to not momentarily derail things.

Though Havoc's posting rates are irrelevant to the matter at hand, I would venture to say in response that you'll get no complaint from me about his posting schedule, simply due to the work he puts into his IC posts - honestly, they inspire me to put more work into my IC posts.

[General Havoc]

My answers are as long or as short as I feel they need to be. If you want them to be longer, I'll take that into consideration. Posting time won't be seriously affected.

I have no objection to your posts, posting style, or post length, and I would not want you to change them to suit me even if I did have such objections. I am merely stating that as a GM, I need to write many times more than any player, and this takes time. My schedule is slow and intermittent, certainly, and oft-times much slower than it ought to be, but I cannot simply dash these posts off like some people can.

And anyhow, IC post is on its way. Once it's done, I will resume work on the infodump, which will go here, in OOC. I see no reason to split it off into a different debate thread.

[rhoenix]

In thinking back, I formally retract my statements questioning the judgement of both Frigidmagi, and Cynical Cat. Though I do still question their actions, questioning their judgement was a step past the line, and I apologize.

[Avian Obscurities]

COMMENTS RELATING BACK TO THE GAME INC....

CynCat: Nice touch on the HG Wells reference, I like it :D

Flinder's Coloration: Everyone seems to have the general gist, but I thought Id post this for visual reference:

http://www.rfadventures.com/images/Anim ... hon-bg.jpg

This is a Water Python, an actual species of Australian snake, and the one that in our timeline is revered by the aboriginal people as a symbol of their legendary Rainbow Serpent (in this timeline, I imagine that the big shiny dragon supplanted it.) For simplicity's sake, i've decided Flinder looks exactly like this. You will notice that the rainbow refraction of the scales is definitely visible, but only at certain angles in good light. The poor boy doesnt walk around looking like a disco ball all the time. ;)

[Charon]

A random interesting fact that might come up when Kunja introduces himself to the Dreamweaver. Kunja is part of the name of an Australian god, namely Mangar-kunjer-kunja. What'd he do? He was the lizard god who created humans.

[rhoenix]

Oh, this should be interesting. Don't worry, Big Red will come down once he and Kunja have finished playing tag.

[Avian Obscurities]

A random interesting fact that might come up when Kunja introduces himself to the Dreamweaver. Kunja is part of the name of an Australian god, namely Mangar-kunjer-kunja. What'd he do? He was the lizard god who created humans.

Ahh, good question, and also very cool. Most of my knowledge of aboriginal culture comes from one semester of Aboriginal Studies done while on study abroad, but theres a lot I dont know about, and im only remembering a lot of things as i go. I should go find my notes....(oh wait, no, bugger me, theyre in a box at my parents house. Wikipedia it is, then XP)

Anyway, Lucid Flinder will know nothing about it. He was hatched by white men and raised on a ranch, and generally excluded from interactions with aboriginal people. However, Dreamy Flinder might spout some vague statements making connections. These ramblings will confuse Lucid Flinder, because he knows nothing about the aboriginal culture that was his birthright and Allen has never told him the truth of the violent way he was brought to live on the ranch.

[General Havoc]

So... Charon, if I may ask, how did Kunja, a Queen Victoria's Reaper, come to get an aboriginal name?

[LadyTevar]

Well... Jebediah is a Smoke Devil.

They're a breed found exclusively in the Appalachian Mountain region of North America, mostly in the section from West Virginia to Georgia. They are light-weights, with a coloring that ranges from pale blue to smoky white. Jebediah himself is a mix -- a soft sky-blue with thin ripples of white, resembling whitecaps on a series of waves, or a stretch of mountain ridges fading away into the distance. Being a Mountain Dragon, he'd go for the second image. Two long spiraling horns sweep back from his brow, and his wings are narrow and pointed like a pergrine falcon's. Once he's in flight, you'd see he moves like a falcon as well, very useful when there's sometimes very little clearance between mountain ridges. The wings have a wicked hook where a human thumb would be, and the claws on all four paws are curved like a rock-climber's pick.

However... most of this you won't know, because Smoke Devils are rarely bred in captivity. Most of the American Breeders consider Smoke Devils to be next to useless, being too stubborn, opinionated, lazy, and unsuited to Military Life (kinda like most Appalachian Hillbillies are seen to be, before we prove them wrong). Truthfully, Smoke Devils are not that good in traditional Dragon Formations. However, when it comes to rapid dives, hair-pin turns, cliff climbing, and needing a dragon that can reserve its direction on a dime... there's none better than a Smoke Devil, which is why many got used by moonshiners to deliver bootleg whiskey and avoid the rev'nuers.

I have to wonder if Smoke Devils become The Dragon to race in this world's version of NASCAR Bootlegger cars were the original racers, after all.

[Charon]

Could've sworn I'd mentioned this to you before. But as I'd thought it out Jake and Kunja (before he was named Kunja), met a Dreamweaver, which in it's state of... euphoria... referred to the dragon as Mangar-kunjer-kunja. Kunja and Jake both liked it so much that it stuck.

As for Flinder, I figured that since he was raised by the ranchers there was a good chance he wouldn't pick up on it, hence the might.

[LadyTevar]

I remember you mentioning it, Charon.

[Avian Obscurities]

(kinda like most Appalachian Hillbillies are seen to be, before we prove them wrong).

lole im reminded of that "exhibition" football game from last year or so, where the superpower team went in to play the appalachian team for like practice and got their faces handed to them. ;D for the win.