Author Feedback: Steve

[frigidmagi]

Bajorans run a good fight. It's interesting how you ride the fascist/Cardassian comparison as well.

Course I can imagine how humulating it must be the Cardassians. Convinced they are the crown of the universe they run (face first) into aliens from another universe and they're... Human. Everywhere you look... Humans.

For a bunch of speciesist fascist aliens that has to be very damn galling.

I do wonder though, how does the Domination navy stack up ship for ship, sailor to sailor to the Alliance?

[Steve]

Not as well as the Cardassians.

My take on it is that the Dominion fleet's primary responsibilities for the last few centuries, at the very least, have been geared around controlling existant conquests via terror and smacking weaker races around on their frontiers as they expand. Therefore their fleet, while huge, is also very limited in range of operational capability. They have the "bug" ships, the generic eight crew attack ships with a single bow-mounted weapon (called fighters at times, but since we use real starfighters in TGG I won't use the term to avoid confusion), they have the battlecruisers that first showed up in Season 5, and they have a handful of the big dreadnoughts. The bugcraft are good ships for controlling space lanes and blasting freighters that try to resist and are capable combatants against some weaker vessels (especially with the Dominion beam weapons having inherent shield-piercing characteristics). Then you can use the battlecruisers for anything too big for the bugs to handle, and the dreadnoughts for the rare foe who can deal with the cruisers as well or perhaps for terrifying enemies into submission.

But this isn't a pacification campaign against a rebellious frontier subject species nor a quick war to subjugate a free race/nation that's become too annoying to be dealt with via long-term subversion and diplomacy (to borrow a term from the Paradox games, specifically the Europa Universalis series, I suspect that many Dominion subject races are brought into their empire via diplo-annexing, not force). It's a general, total war with a powerful opponent with a potent starship fleet, one that's not been gutted by recent conflicts (remember that when the Dominion War began, the Federation had within the last couple of years dealt with a Borg invasion and had waged a brief war with the Klingon Empire over the Arkanis Sector, blunting the effect of their post-Borg Encounter buildup on Starfleet).

Against this foe, you have a force of grown cannon fodder, the Jem'Hadar, who might be trained to high technical competence in operating their ships, but who are generally meant for following orders, not giving them. Vorta provide the high officers of their forces but are not academy trained nor experienced in the kind of war, and fleet engagements, they're about to face.

The Dominion military is primarily experienced in suppression campaigns. Now it has to fight a general war where they need more than just throwing a horde of ships at an outnumbered opponent.


Now, they aren't stupid, and they probably have made some attempts at matching the capabilities of the Multiverse at large, but you can't do these things from scratch. You have to design new ships, field prototypes, work out kinks, develop appropriate usage doctrine. I'm already planning on introducing Jem'Hadar starfighters and carrier-cruisers, for instance. And further attempts at matching the more diverse Alliance fleet are being made and will probably reflect in the composition of the Dominion fleet toward the war's end.


As for how the Jem'Hadar stack up "sailor for sailor".... they're grown to do the duties assigned and need no sleep or no food, just the ketracell white. Thus their logistics requirements are far lighter since you only need to ship the ketracell with spare parts and fuel, not X amount of provisions, mail to and from home (to maintain morale), etc. The lack of crew quarters permits more ship volume for vital ship systems (or for a smaller ship to be built for the same mission). Therefore they provide a number of advantages.

On the other hand, the ADN-side sailors are led by career NCOs and officers who have had longer careers in the military than the majority of the recent Jem'Hadar generation's lifetime. The Jem'Hadar are good for pressing home an attack and remaining unflinching in the face of probable death, but the finer points of damage control, starship operation, etc. are likely to go to those who've been handling starships for ten, twenty, even thirty years. Once a Jem'Hadar ship is damaged the only thing it's good for is plowing into an enemy vessel; an ADN ship can be repaired and kept in the battle.

[frigidmagi]

Funny I was always wondering if alot of races were annexed via missionary work. As the races of the Dominion seem to take the whole Changelings are gods bit seriously.

[frigidmagi]

Isn't bio-warfare outlawed in that universe?

[Steve]

Possibly, but when you're doing THE LORD'S WORK, the treaties of corrupt men hold no sway!

[frigidmagi]

You know I suspected Lee Haywood was a monster without qualm or moral but you've managed to confirm he's a bloody moron. If this was the hind end of space over by the Imperial Japanese Empire and Russia, I doubt anyone would give 3 shits. This is a nation however with powerful and militant friends. Breaking the laws of war isn't just immoral, it's fucking stupid to. A nation can get away with immorality, it can get away with evil, even utter repellent vileness. A nation can't get away with stupid though. Not if it's the kind of stupid that insists on picking fights.

[Steve]

Hanson Leewood, not Lee Haywood.

Unfortunately fanatics do stupid things. What he's basically doing is recreating Louis XIV's scourging of the Rhenish Palatinate during one of the major wars of the late 17th Century and in turn causing a major humanitarian crisis that will stretch Allied logistics to the breaking point.

Of course, they have yet to realize that they "have awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve". I'm resisting having a Plymouthite admiral - Martyn, Proctor, or Pronai - paraphrasing Yamamoto in a scene, actually.

[frigidmagi]

Men steeped in the images and stories of the Bible from an early age wouldn't use that quote. After all in the OT Giants are only there to get killed by heroes. They might invoke the plagues of Egypt or say something about how they've become the Philistines.

[Steve]

Well, that's why I'm not writing such a thing, I simply felt tempted.

[frigidmagi]

You know, that's gotta be a kick in the pants for the Cardies.

Still a few questions:

In TNG, the Cardassians first appearance has them as something of a annoyance more then anything else when they attack the Enterprise. Was it like that in this Federation/Cardassian War? Was it that the Federation just didn't have enough 1st rate ships coupled with a leadership that was intentionally crippling the war? I expect Starfleet officers would start forming... Huh... Call them "political clubs" for "discussion" over something like this.

I note that one of the USA's in the Alliance is trying to block Thailand from joining, is it due to it being a Monarchy?

I look forward to seeing what the Romulans and Klingons are doing over this. Hell for that matter, why didn't the Klingons overrun the Cardassians? Are they that bad off economically? Or did the stalemate with the Romulans prevent them from devoting any real resources to fighting the Cardassians?

Lastly is there any reason why the Alliance is a human only organization?

[Steve]

You know, that's gotta be a kick in the pants for the Cardies.

Still a few questions:

In TNG, the Cardassians first appearance has them as something of a annoyance more then anything else when they attack the Enterprise. Was it like that in this Federation/Cardassian War? Was it that the Federation just didn't have enough 1st rate ships coupled with a leadership that was intentionally crippling the war? I expect Starfleet officers would start forming... Huh... Call them "political clubs" for "discussion" over something like this.

They were an annoyance to the Enterprise, a top of the line ship. It was the arrival of the first Nebulas that actually make the Cardies decide to sue for peace even if they weren't doing too badly, as it was powerful enough to smack them around.

But yes, the UFP lacked 1st rate ships due to budget cuts to Starfleet development and it had to deal with a powerful, virulent pacifist/anti-war movement that had virtual control over the press and was threatening civil strife over escalation to the war.

I note that one of the USA's in the Alliance is trying to block Thailand from joining, is it due to it being a Monarchy?

No. USA AGC-1 is not in the ADN. It objects to Thailand joining the ADN for astropolitical reasons, a key one being a desire to prevent the ADN from getting a more powerful position in the AGC-1 settled regions.

I look forward to seeing what the Romulans and Klingons are doing over this. Hell for that matter, why didn't the Klingons overrun the Cardassians? Are they that bad off economically? Or did the stalemate with the Romulans prevent them from devoting any real resources to fighting the Cardassians?

Cardies were closer to the Klingons tech-wise, the Klingons had other distractions and less reason to deal with the Cardies (the Romulans and the Kinshaya for instance), as for current affairs, this is the timeframe of TNG's Season 4-Season 5 cliffhanger, so the Klingon Civil War is about to ignite.

Lastly is there any reason why the Alliance is a human only organization?

No particular reason. Just that no alien race or alien nation has opted to join it. Yet.

[frigidmagi]

This is shaping up well and I like the deeper attention paid to the sub plots. I would like to see reactions besides the Federations though. I mean in this series of battles the Alliance has shattered the old calculus of battle in the Alpha/Beta Quad.

Plus I really would love to see a batch of Ferengi outmaneuvered by Alliance businessmen. Legally, without breaking the contract.

[frigidmagi]

A good chapter Steve.

[frigidmagi]

Tag line of this chapter

Intrigue the bane of every totalitarian government raises it head as the last survivors of a dead culture seek purpose and honor.

I notice Dukat's superior there didn't tell him about what happened to Germany after Wiemar. I think the fate of Nazi Germany would make him go utterly cold with dread.

Also Battle Hymn of the Republic it is good to know that there is at least one future where this song is still sung.

And for Typhoon and it's captain. Hymn to Typhoon

[Steve]

Tag line of this chapter

Intrigue the bane of every totalitarian government raises it head as the last survivors of a dead culture seek purpose and honor.

I notice Dukat's superior there didn't tell him about what happened to Germany after Wiemar. I think the fate of Nazi Germany would make him go utterly cold with dread.

Also Battle Hymn of the Republic it is good to know that there is at least one future where this song is still sung.

And for Typhoon and it's captain. Hymn to Typhoon

Honestly I don't think Keve himself knows about Nazi Germany. At least I'm not sure if he does, he could've found some reference to how WWI ended that didn't include the leadup to WWII.

[frigidmagi]

It's always the guy with a wife and kids. It's enough to make you think they're wrong and Death does have a will. An evil, sadistic one.

[frigidmagi]

Gul Dukat has reminded me why he's the single best villain Trek has ever had (not that the competition is really red hot there). How many fictional villains can calmly and rationally suss out their enemies strengths and weaknesses and with a weaker hand proceed to hurt and embarrass said enemy?

Ben Sisko seemed really cynical there. I suppose I can't blame him. You know after Wolf 359 you think the peace nuts would be weaker...

[frigidmagi]

Well done Steve, well done.

[Steve]

Thank you.

[frigidmagi]

Why aren't the mech pilots officers?

Why aren't we using combined arms on the mechs? Seriously fighting their way is bluntly retarded. We should have upgraded tanks and other armored weapons, troops with shipped in anti-mech arms, and figthers hitting the mech units from all sides. Fuck if nothing else why aren't tactical nukes and gas weapons being pulled out. Kansas City is being overrun! I'm simply not seeing the small mech warrior verse units overrunning us if we have outside help.

There should also be more guriella style action. To be blunt if I was fighting in Kansas City against overwhelming alien invaders (clans are close enough to that), The place would be rigged enough to make Iraq look like a child proofed play pen. Entire buildings would be rigged, streets would collapse and cars filled with explosives would be rammed into mech legs. Because what do we have to lose at this point?

[Steve]

Why aren't the mech pilots officers?

I considered it, but in the end I've been talked into having the US treat them like armor and cav units, so normal pilots will still be enlisted.

Hence "platoon" instead of "lance'.

Why aren't we using combined arms on the mechs? Seriously fighting their way is bluntly retarded. We should have upgraded tanks and other armored weapons, troops with shipped in anti-mech arms, and figthers hitting the mech units from all sides. Fuck if nothing else why aren't tactical nukes and gas weapons being pulled out. Kansas City is being overrun! I'm simply not seeing the small mech warrior verse units overrunning us if we have outside help.

All of that is actually being done. Save the tac-nukes; due to developments there aren't many nukes in service anymore (Especially given that some have actually been used already...).

There should also be more guriella style action. To be blunt if I was fighting in Kansas City against overwhelming alien invaders (clans are close enough to that), The place would be rigged enough to make Iraq look like a child proofed play pen. Entire buildings would be rigged, streets would collapse and cars filled with explosives would be rammed into mech legs. Because what do we have to lose at this point?

This was honestly a very small snapshot of a special event, the war is a much broader thing going on.

I'm considering posting a rough timeline, though the background I have so far is mostly only post-contact with the BTech verse, and I've also begun the actual first main story, which will be posted shortly.

[frigidmagi]

Fair enough Steve but then no offense you're writing it poorly. The Clanners should not talk and act like they're walking through the Iraqi Army but acting like they're patrolling through Baghdad. In short, they should be nervious, upset at the low conduct of American forces (we would chose to conduct our battles from ambush and using emplaced explosives which would be our best bet). Neither should American Mechs be operating alone. Tanks should be nearby as well as other units.

Also the US has tactical nukes kept in stockpiles. There wouldn't be a shortage unless we turned Texas into a radioactive wasteland or something. Given what I saw in the books that would exhaust most Clans war fighting potentional.

As it stands man, it's just not ringing true.

[Steve]

Fair enough Steve but then no offense you're writing it poorly. The Clanners should not talk and act like they're walking through the Iraqi Army but acting like they're patrolling through Baghdad. In short, they should be nervious, upset at the low conduct of American forces (we would chose to conduct our battles from ambush and using emplaced explosives which would be our best bet).

That's presuming I was going for competent Clanners, not for an arrogant glory-hound Smoke Jaguar officer desperate to improve the crappy Bloodheritage he held who was getting too used to victories against inferior foes and was too arrogant to consider what he might be inviting.

We'll see Tomas Osis again, but he's not going to be in a very prestigious position when we do. Frankly he's lucky that Dani was more keyed on stealing his ride than finishing him off. Or, heh, not so lucky...

Neither should American Mechs be operating alone. Tanks should be nearby as well as other units.

Keep in mind this was happening in a situation with a major battle already waging and a lot of US forces already decimated and driven away. You're not going to maintain perfect unit mix in these conditions. Not to mention the fact that against Clan BattleMechs, not to mention frontline OmniMechs, an M1A1 is basically target practice.

Also the US has tactical nukes kept in stockpiles. There wouldn't be a shortage unless we turned Texas into a radioactive wasteland or something. Given what I saw in the books that would exhaust most Clans war fighting potentional.

As it stands man, it's just not ringing true.

Nukes have to be maintained. An economic catastrophe where political dealing and a general national trend against military spending will see that stockpile deplete by aging; throw in a belated re-armament and a major anti-nuclear sentiment from having an active nuclear war occur (and admittedly be blunted by successful deployment of ABM) and I think it's enough to fit plausibilty, especially when using nukes would infuriate both the Inner Sphere and the Clans. I grant that it stretches plausibility, but I'm willing to make it work to write the story as I want to, which is not tac-nukes getting thrown around like confetti.

(That said, we'll see 'em when Sunhawk writes about the fighting to force the Falcons and local allied troops out of the Southwest.)

[frigidmagi]

I like this new story alot better then the mech warrior stuff you keep writing. Although I was hoping you go back to the idea of Jedi in Firefly, Captain Kirk will do.

[frigidmagi]

You've approached this story several times now I think, I'll be very pleased to see you take it all the way to the end as it is a good story, one of your better ones.