French Military Defeats

[Jason_Firewalker]

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

The Complete Military History of France

Please note that the Web designer is not American and blaming the Web designer for America's history is illogical. Though you may critisize this oversimplified French history all you wish, blaming or threatening the Web designer is not nice.

We are still accepting submissions from history researchers.
Last update: May 4, 2005.

- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]

- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

- The Dutch War
- Tied

- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States [Entering the war late -ed.]. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."

With only an hour and a half of research, Jonathan Duczkowski provided the following losses:

Norse invasions, 841-911.
After having their way with the French for 70 years, the Norse are bribed by a French King named Charles the Simple (really!) who gave them Normandy in return for peace. Normans proceed to become just about the only positive military bonus in France's [favour] for next 500 years.

Andrew Ouellette posts this in response:

1066 A.D. William The Conquerer Duke and Ruler of France Launches the Largest Invasion in the history of the world no other was as large until the same trip was taken in reverse on June 6th 1944 William Fights Harold for the Throne of England Which old king Edward rightfully left to William but Harold Usurped the throne Will fights the Saxons (English)wins and the French Rule England for the Next 80 Years. then the French start the largest building and economic infrastructure since the fall of the Roman Empire the Norman Economy skyrockets and the Normans inadvertantly start England to become a major world Power Vive La France-

Matt Davis posts this in response to Andrew Ouellette above:

Oh dear. We seem to have overlooked some basic facts. Firstly, Philip the First (1060 - 1108) was King of France at the time of the Norman invasion of 1066 - William was Duke of Normandy and, incidentally, directly descended from the Vikings. William was, therefore, as alien to France as the experience of victory. Since Philip did not invade England, the victory at Hastings was Norman - not French. Normandy may be a part of France now but it most certainly wasn't in 1066. Therefore, William's coronation as King of England had nothing whatsoever to do with the French. As usual, they were nowhere near the place when the fighting was going on. The mistaken belief that 1066 was a French victory leads to the Third Rule of French Warfare; "When incapable of any victory whatsoever - claim someone else's".

Mexico, 1863-1864.
France attempts to take advantage of Mexico's weakness following its thorough thrashing by the U.S. 20 years earlier ("Halls of Montezuma"). Not surprisingly, the only unit to distinguish itself is the French Foreign Legion (consisting of, by definition, non-Frenchmen). Booted out of the country a little over a year after arrival.

Panama jungles 1881-1890.
No one but nature to fight, France still loses; canal is eventually built by the U.S. 1904-1914.

Napoleonic Wars.
Should be noted that the Grand Armee was largely (~%50) composed of non-Frenchmen after 1804 or so. Mainly disgruntled minorities and anti-monarchists. Not surprisingly, these performed better than the French on many occasions.

Haiti, 1791-1804.
French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare; when in doubt, send an ally.

India, 1673-1813.
British were far more charming than French, ended up victors. Therefore the British are well known for their tea, and the French for their whine (er, wine...). Ensures 200 years of bad teeth in England.

Barbary Wars, middle ages-1830.
Pirates in North Africa continually harass European shipping in Meditteranean. France's solution: pay them to leave us alone. America's solution: kick their asses ("the Shores of Tripoli"). [America's] first overseas victories, won 1801-1815.

1798-1801, Quasi-War with U.S.
French privateers (semi-legal pirates) attack U.S. shipping. U.S. fights France at sea for 3 years; French eventually cave; sets precedent for next 200 years of Franco-American relations.

Moors in Spain, late 700s-early 800s.
Even with Charlemagne leading them against an enemy living in a hostile land, French are unable to make much progress. Hide behind Pyrennes until the modern day.

French-on-French losses (probably should be counted as victories too, just to be fair):

1208: Albigenses Crusade, French massacared by French.
When asked how to differentiate a heretic from the faithful, response was "Kill them all. God will know His own." Lesson: French are badasses when fighting unarmed men, women and children.

St. Bartholomew Day Massacre, August 24, 1572.
Once again, French-on-French slaughter.

Third Crusade.
Philip Augustus of France throws hissy-fit, leaves Crusade for Richard the Lion Heart to finish.

Seventh Crusade.
St. Louis of France leads Crusade to Egypt. Resoundingly crushed.

[Eighth] Crusade.
St. Louis back in action, this time in Tunis. See Seventh Crusade.

Also should be noted that France attempted to hide behind the Maginot line, sticking their head in the sand and pretending that the Germans would enter France that way. By doing so, the Germans would have been breaking with their traditional route of invading France, entering through Belgium (Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, World War I, etc.). French ignored this though, and put all their effort into these defenses.

Thomas Whiteley has submitted this addition to me:

Seven year War 1756-1763
Lost: after getting hammered by Frederick the Great of Prussia (yep, the Germans again) at Rossbach, the French were held off for the remainder of the War by Frederick of Brunswick and a hodge-podge army including some Brits. War also saw France kicked out of Canada (Wolfe at Quebec) and India (Clive at Plassey).

Richard Mann, an American in France wants to add the following:

The French consider the departure of the French from Algeria in 1962-63, after 130 years on colonialism, as a French victory and especially consider C. de Gaulle as a hero for 'leading' said victory over the unwilling French public who were very much against the departure. This ended their colonialism. About 2 million ungrateful Algerians lost their lives in this shoddy affair.

Jokes go in the appropriate JOKES thread in MA&M fora....Don't spam up my board with unfunny stuff. Jokes are srs bizns. -Dark Silver

[fgalkin]

This got old around 2003.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Jason_Firewalker]

I still like it, mostly cause I found it around a year ago

[Cynical Cat]

This has no business being in the Great Hall. I would kick in to the joke thread on Arts or Down Below, but sadly I have no power to do so.

[Jason_Firewalker]

I did not know where to file it since I saw no label for humor... so I put it here apologies if I miss-filed

[fgalkin]

I still like it, mostly cause I found it around a year ago

Considering its original purpose- neocons making fun of France for not supporting the US in its Fun and Marvelous Near East Adventure, and its gross falsification of history, I can respond to this with nothing but annoyance.

Oh well, good to know that at least someone is amused by it.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Jason_Firewalker]

Mind you, after my high school French language teacher, I have no love for the people of France. I like their food well enough, and their culture is okay by me in most ways but... their people, need to grow a back bone...

[fgalkin]

Mind you, after my high school French language teacher, I have no love for the people of France. I like their food well enough, and their culture is okay by me in most ways but... their people, need to grow a back bone...

My high school French teacher was Romanian, and a bitch from Hell (who spoke French with an accent so strong, real French people couldn't understand her!), so after three years with her, I have a healthy dislike of all things French, but at the same time I find them quite amusing.

The lack of backbone, however, is a problem common to most Western societies at the moment. To single out the French is the height of absurdity- in WWI, their armed forces sustained 75% casualties, and yet not only did they keep fighting, people kept volunteering up to the very end! When it comes to taking a beating and going on, they're almost as good at it as us Russians, and much better than the Americans.

Which is why things like this tidbit are endlessly frustrating to me:

Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[General Havoc]

Will someone please delete this thread? I have no stomach for the whining that will inevitably follow.

[Derek Thunder]

Will someone please delete this thread? I have no stomach for the whining that will inevitably follow.

No, I think it should stand as a monument to neoconservative ethnic prejudice.

[Dark Silver]

No thread gets deleted on this board, unless it is a complete error and is requested by the OP.

The best this thread can hope for, is to be flushed to Down Below due to trollish behavior.....and any trolls will be feed to the Keepers in due course...

[rhoenix]

Oh look, a US chain letter hating on the French again, because they had the gall (when few other nations would) to point out that Neocon cowboy diplomacy doesn't work? Nice.

Everyone knows that America would still be a collection of British holdings without their help during the Revolutionary War, right?

Everyone knows that we wouldn't have a Statue of Liberty without having first gained the respect of the entire nation of France during America's infancy, right?

Everyone remembers how they as citizens of their country had the balls to rise up and behead all their upper-crust ruling class to start a proper people's government, right?

France existed as a country (albeit with a different government) before America was a recognized sovereign nation, and still exists now.

Given this as a precedent, I'd be honestly shocked if a "LOL here's why Americans are fucking stupid" chain letter didn't get sent around the world fifteen times over. The worst part about that is that nobody would have to fudge any facts for it to work.

[fgalkin]

Everyone remembers how they as citizens of their country had the balls to rise up and behead all their upper-crust ruling class to start a proper people's government, right?

No offense, but WHA?

If there is an example of Doing it Wrong, the French Revolution is it. Sheer madness, it was.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[frigidmagi]

Everyone knows that America would still be a collection of British holdings without their help during the Revolutionary War, right?

They helped quite a bit.

Everyone knows that we wouldn't have a Statue of Liberty without having first gained the respect of the entire nation of France during America's infancy, right?

Huh, entire nation is stretching it a tad there buddy. Try an artist and some wealthy backers.

Everyone remembers how they as citizens of their country had the balls to rise up and behead all their upper-crust ruling class to start a proper people's government, right?

You realize that ended up a military dictatorship with Napoleon right? And the reason everyone welcomed him into the post was that the "proper people's government" had dissolved into a reign of terror where political oppotents and dissents got their heads chopped right off? I wouldn't count this one in their favor honestly. Besides screwed up rebellions are kind of a French tradition.

France existed as a country (albeit with a different government) before America was a recognized sovereign nation, and still exists now.

Age does not result in virtue. If that were so we should all listen to Ethiopia, Iran and Egypt.


That said all this French bashing is silly. So is screaming about a silly chain letter over 6 years old now. Let's let it go folks.

[Comrade Tortoise]

- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

American INFANTRY saw more fighting that french INFANTRY. But it was the french navy that kept the english from resupplying and replacing lost troops.

Without the french, we would have been crushed like an insect.

Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

This is particularly offensive because a lot of that sex was probably non-consenting.

[frigidmagi]

Actually in WWI the rape rates were fairly low, for a major war. Keep in mind there were no occupations (when crimes against noncombatents are common) and the fighting was super concentrated in long but narrow strips where the civilians had fled.

During the phase of war when armies are fighting it out on a fairly even footing sex and other crimes are kept low, this is because the CO's keep a firm grip on the troops and the troops generally don't have time. Also in WWI's case is the fact that both sides generally speaking viewed the war through a chivalric lens, at least in the beginning. Mock the attitude all you like but combined with modern civilization it does keep atrocities down.

That said, rape certainly happened. As did paid and unpaid consenting sex.

World War II on the flip side could turn your hair grey.

[rhoenix]

Points conceded, Frigid & fgalkin - I was writing in the heat of an emotional response.

There. I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.