7th fleet not suppose to fight says Admiral

[frigidmagi]

City

[quote]On a gorgeous morning this autumn, at Yokosuka, south of Tokyo, I was expecting a huge popular demonstration, maybe even a riot. The U.S. aircraft carrier George Washington was about to enter Yokosuka’s harbor, the base of the Seventh Fleet in the Pacific. Never before had a nuclear-powered vessel been based in Japan. It was a clear demonstration of how the U.S. was reinforcing its presence in this part of the world—a danger zone, with China, Korea, Taiwan, and Japan itself, all historical rivals, ranged around it. Japan has a long tradition of pacifist, antinuclear, and anti-American protests, and until now, the only country to have been bombed with nuclear weapons had always opposed hosting nuclear ships.

Yet no riot erupted; in fact, there was no trace of protest. Yokosuka was quiet. The only crowd on hand was on the base: 1,000 Japanese—mostly local dignitaries, politicians, and representatives of the Japanese Navy—joined a group of American officials to attend the majestic and complex maneuver of the George Washington from the high seas to the pier.

Speeches were numerous. The American speakers—ambassador to Japan J. Thomas Schieffer, Secretary of the Navy Donald Winter, and a number of admirals—predictably lavished praise on U.S.-Japanese friendship and expressed their commitment to peace in the Pacific. The surprise came from the Japanese side. Yokosuka’s mayor, Ryoichi Kabaya, said that while the Japanese had felt some initial reluctance about hosting a nuclear-powered ship in the port city, they had eventually concluded that the George Washington posed no safety threat. Japan’s newly appointed foreign affairs minister, Hirofumi Nakasone, was even more enthusiastic. He declared that no better friends existed on earth than Japan and America and that their alliance was the cornerstone of peace and prosperity in Asia. I wondered if the good feelings hadn’t received a boost from the recent rekindling of the North Korean nuclear program.

The George Washington eventually reached the pier. Following a Navy tradition, the first men to come ashore were fathers whose children were born in Japan while they were away at sea. Several family reunions ensued, demonstrative enough to embarrass the reserved Japanese.

“The purpose of the Navy,â€

[General Havoc]

The Admiral was giving a speech re-assuring the Japanese that the presence of the Nuclear-powered Battle Carrier in their harbor was not a result of the US desiring to fight WWIII to the last Japanese. I don't think it represents institutional thinking.

[frigidmagi]

He's speaking to an American Reporter, working on an American Outlet. Somehow I kinda doubt that many Japanese heard him say it. Futhermore even if he was speaking to the Japanese such a statement is not acceptable for any purpose at all. The purpose of a military is to fight. Lying, especially such a base, infantile lie, to a loyal ally smacks of idiotic and game playing.

[Stofsk]

The purpose of any military organization or formation is to fight. When you begin to believe otherwise, you begin down a path that leads to the wrong group of people dying. This man should be removed.

I think you're being unnecessarily hard on the man. The impression I got from him was a Salvor Hardin-esque (Foundation for those who haven't read the book) comment about fighting isn't the be-all, end-all purpose of the navy. The purpose is not to fight, it's to prevent a fight, in other words.

I don't doubt that the USN would distinguish itself in an actual battle, but how it distinguishes itself in times of peace are just as important, perhaps more so because peace times invariably last longer than war time - especially in the last 60 years of 'limited' operations and conflicts.

[Destructionator XV]

The purpose is not to fight, it's to prevent a fight, in other words.

Aye. I'm reminded of the quote from The Karate Kid: "Why do you learn how to fight?" -- "So I don't have to."

[frigidmagi]

First off Stofsk, welcome back. May this be the first of many battles!

I think you're being unnecessarily hard on the man.

I think I'm not being hard enough. I haven't use the words court marshal, unnecessary risk, or utter idiocy yet.

The impression I got from him was a Salvor Hardin-esque (Foundation for those who haven't read the book) comment about fighting isn't the be-all, end-all purpose of the navy. The purpose is not to fight, it's to prevent a fight, in other words.

The impression I got from him was a political blowhard whose had it to damn easy in his career flapping his gums. I cannot begin to explain the negative consequences of a mindset that puts fighting second to looking scary in a military organization. That kind of thing only works if everyone buys and they never do. The only way to prevent a fight is to be ready and completely dedicated to winning a fight. To put it bluntly if you train and work and believe your purpose is to fight, then you'll be an effective tool in preventing a fight. If you train and work and believe your purpose is to prevent a fight by showing up, you're asking to get beat up when a fight actually starts.

You fight how you train. You train how you think.

I don't doubt that the USN would distinguish itself in an actual battle, but how it distinguishes itself in times of peace are just as important, perhaps more so because peace times invariably last longer than war time - especially in the last 60 years of 'limited' operations and conflicts.

Those peaces only happen because of how we (that is to say the Allies which includes the Soviet Union yes) won the wars. That 60 years of limited operations and conflicts only happened because of the utter destruction inflicted on the Japanese Imperial Navy and Japan itself. Because the USN was concerted on winning fights and was about fighting, we had 6 decades of "peace." It's ability to fight kept that peace effectively through Korea and Vietnam.

A military force that believes that it's purpose is to win wars and to fight can effectively be used to keep peace. A military force that thinks it's purpose is to shout Boo! cannot be used to win wars. You will say I'm being to black and white. Well this is about human lives and the well being of entire nations, we cannot afford any foolishness especially in this point of history.

Aye. I'm reminded of the quote from The Karate Kid: "Why do you learn how to fight?" -- "So I don't have to."

And yet there were 3 movies where he did exactly that now weren't there?

Furthermore, that's a useless sentiment to attach to the military. We don't get to chose our fights. The Government and the Voters do it for us. Learning how to fight doesn't save you from having to fight. It just saves you from losing. I know how to fight, it hasn't saved me from one yet. You don't want to fight? Learn to suck up or run. Otherwise accept there is going to be at least one fight ahead of you, if you win maybe there won't be any more, but that all depends on the other guy.

[Stofsk]

Frigid, are you sure the VADM wasn't being quoted a little bit out of context?

The way you interpreted his words it reads like he doesn't think fighting is in the Navy's job description. The way I read it, I think what he is trying to say is "If we're doing our job right, we don't have to fight" Which isn't the same as saying we're not training to fight or whatever.

I understand what you're saying and I agree with you. I can see what you're saying, as written his words... could have been expressed a bit better.

[frigidmagi]

[quote]
“The purpose of the Navy,â€