STGOD rules thread

[Slacker]

My horde of BT-5, T-26, and T-28 tanks shall be a match for anything you can field

Well, considering they're both ripoffs of the same British design that shouldn't surprise you all that much.

I was surprised that the design is within shouting distance of the Panzer II-I'd known German tanks were a pile of shit at the beginning of the war, I hadn't realized everyone else wasn't in a crappier pile of shit, if that makes sense.

[General Havoc]

You're looking for the wrong thing. What you want is a Farsi-English Transliterator, not a Translator. Generally you'll want a translator to get from English to Farsi, and then a transliterator to get from Persian script to Latin characters.

[Academia Nut]

Know of any transliterators that go from Farsi to Latin alphabet? Because the only ones I could find were the opposite way around, for people typing with an English keyboard. It's like, all I really want to do is to be able to give my tanks names like 'Rhinoceros' but have it be in the correct language.

[Comrade Tortoise]

At Magi's request.

0: Nothing
1: Colonial Land Area of <200,000 sq. kms
2: Colonial Land Area of >200,000 sq. kms
3: Colonial Land Area of >600,000 sq. kms+ 1 to population
4: Colonial Land Area of >1,000,000 sq. kms+2 to population
5: Colonial Land Area of >2,000,000 sq. kms+2 to population, +1 to economy

So I was thinking about this. And it looks to me like a large amount of colonial space (or developed territories) is going to have a larger impact on our population sizes and economic power than this. I would propose the following alteration.

0: Nothing
1: Colonial Land Area of <200,000 sq. kms
2: Colonial Land Area of >200,000 sq. kms +1 population
3: Colonial Land Area of >600,000 sq. kms+ 1 to population+1 economy
4: Colonial Land Area of >1,000,000 sq. kms+2 to population +1 economy
5: Colonial Land Area of >2,000,000 sq. kms+2 to population,+2 economy

[Hadrianvs]

I'm having visions of tanks that have their origins as self propelled artillery rather than as the line breakers of WW1. I'm seeing tanks that are designed to move really big guns from place to place and provide some protection for the crew. I see them being big and slow and only really proof against rifle rounds, but you really don't want to be in front of them.

That's called an assault gun. They were heavily used in the Eastern Front during WWII by both sides. Probably the most famous is the German Stug III.

I was surprised that the design is within shouting distance of the Panzer II-I'd known German tanks were a pile of shit at the beginning of the war, I hadn't realized everyone else wasn't in a crappier pile of shit, if that makes sense.

Umm, during the Spanish Civil War the T-26 and BT-5 tanks employed by the Republicans would positively murder any tank of German or Italian make that the Nationalists could throw at them. Granted the T-26 was more lightly armoured and slower than the PzKpfw II, and it's dominance was based mostly around its 45mm gun. The Nationalists were, however, sufficiently impressed that they started offering hefty rewards for captured specimens. The BT-5 was much better, having the same great gun in a considerably faster and better armoured platform, and was only outclassed by Axis tanks when the PzKpfw III came along.

[Steve]

Interesting, would save me a point in Economy potentially .

Anyway, I think I now actually would like just 1930 tech with dreads, assuming there was no Washington Naval Treaty to stunt development, but with perhaps the air threat recognized and being reduced by more extensive anti-air (meaning carriers might still become formidable but the cost in airwing to bring down a modern dreadnought could become prohibitive).

Okay, I'm saying this just so I can potentially put this bad boy into service:

Leviathan, Pacifica Superdreadnought laid down 1934

Displacement:
74,762 t light; 78,985 t standard; 84,354 t normal; 88,649 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(945.82 ft / 930.00 ft) x 130.00 ft x (37.00 / 38.61 ft)
(288.29 m / 283.46 m) x 39.62 m x (11.28 / 11.77 m)

Armament:
12 - 18.00" / 457 mm 50.0 cal guns - 3,200.01lbs / 1,451.50kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm 43.0 cal guns - 61.05lbs / 27.69kg shells, 350 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 38.0 cal guns - 1.85lbs / 0.84kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1934 Model
6 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 39,695 lbs / 18,005 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 17.0" / 432 mm 600.00 ft / 182.88 m 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
5.00" / 127 mm 600.00 ft / 182.88 m 31.00 ft / 9.45 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 100.00 ft / 30.48 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 14.0" / 356 mm 18.0" / 457 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 8.00" / 203 mm
Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 18.00" / 457 mm, Aft 7.40" / 188 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 204,000 shp / 152,184 Kw = 29.10 kts
Range 10,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,664 tons

Complement:
2,474 - 3,217

Cost:
£36.269 million / $145.078 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 8,075 tons, 9.6 %
- Guns: 8,075 tons, 9.6 %
Armour: 31,941 tons, 37.9 %
- Belts: 7,515 tons, 8.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,441 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 7,953 tons, 9.4 %
- Armour Deck: 11,980 tons, 14.2 %
- Conning Towers: 1,053 tons, 1.2 %
Machinery: 5,869 tons, 7.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 28,802 tons, 34.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9,591 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 75 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
115,752 lbs / 52,504 Kg = 39.7 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 21.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 9.1 ft / 2.8 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.660 / 0.665
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 33.00 ft / 10.06 m, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 27.00 ft / 8.23 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 23.58 ft / 7.19 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.1 %
Waterplane Area: 93,467 Square feet or 8,683 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 261 lbs/sq ft or 1,277 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room\

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


....okay, so I probably wouldn't, too expensive. But a man can dream, yeah?

[Hadrianvs]

If we're setting the game in 1930, the population stats need to be slightly revised upward. I propose the following:

0. 1 million
1. 30 millions
2. 60 millions
3. 90 millions
4. 120 millions
5. 150 millions

[Academia Nut]

Since it will come up considering that my empire would have had a level 5 population under this system in the 17th century IRL, how do we handle groups that have much higher pops/areas than the min at level 5? I'm guessing Russia and Pacifica would be the biggest offenders area wise, while I and possibly China would be the biggest offenders population wise.

Also, as an experiment, here is my first attempt at tank design (apologies to any Farsi speakers, I was using Google):

نسخه سه کرگدن (Rhinoceros Version 3)

A design that has its origins in the Afghani rebellions of the 19th century (of which Russian involvement has never been decisively proven despite lingering rumours), the Rhinoceros was developed to reduce the final redoubts of the warlords in the mountains. Unable to get their largest field guns over rough terrain and stymied by a combination of guerilla tactics on supply chains and heavy cannon upon mountain fortresses, the rebellions were highly successful in the highlands and much of the Hindu Kush region was outside of Mughal control for the majority of the 19th century. With the dawning of the 20th century however new technologies allowed for experimentation with self-propelled artillery capable of getting over rough terrain.

The prototypes were essentially howitzers strapped to a catepillar tractor with some armour plate welded onto the sides. While highly vulnerable, its increased mobility allowed it to get into positions previously unavailable to guns of that size. The first true Rhinoceros was an improvement on this design with all around armour and the distinctive design with the howitzer in the front of the vehicle giving it the characteristic 'horn' appearance that lead to the name. While initially highly sucessful, the introduction of AP rifle and machine gun rounds allowed for the piercing of the armour, especially along the sides and rear.

The version two addressed this by increasing the armour and adding on two sponson mounted machine guns for defensive purposes. This additional firepower greatly helped in protecting from infantry attacks, but cavalry and artillery could still be an issue, especially if they could get a shot on the front or rear of the vehicle in between the dead zone of the sponsons.

The version three doubled the thickness of the front armour and added a light machine gun on a swivel platform on the top for 360 degrees of fire. The added weight on the front demanded a redesign of the engine to cope. The engineers outdid themselves, introducing a revolutionary new engine that nearly doubled the horsepower of the previous arrangement. This increased speed while also allowing for an increase in the size of the gun carried. The calibre of machine guns in the sponsons were also increased. With the version three, resistance in the lower passes were crushed and the higher fortresses were blocked and reduced with infantry and mountain artillery.

Dimensions
Height 8ft
Width 12ft 6in
Length 25ft
Mass 30 tons

Armour
Front 1in RHA
Sides/rear 0.5in RHA
Top/bottom 0.31in RHA

Armament
Primary 1x 4.5in QF howitzer
Secondary 2x .50 water-cooled machine guns
1x .303 air-cooled machine gun

Engine 400hp 4-stroke turbocharged diesel engine
Speed 15mi/hr
Operational range 100mi
Crew 9 (1 commander, 1 driver, 2 main gunners, 4 secondary gunners, 1 engineer)

Variants:

گاو نر (Bull)

Originating from conversions made from stripped down earlier versions of the Rhinoceros, the Bull is now a purpose built vehicle designed for resupplying Rhinoceroses in battle. Essentially a Rhinoceros stripped of its main gun and with increased armour, it devotes much of its interior space towards holding additional fuel and ammunition. Some commanders have begun experimenting with using Bulls to carry soldiers rather than supplies.

Bull
Dimensions
Height 8ft
Width 12ft 6in
Length 25ft
Mass 28 tons

Armour
Front 1.1in RHA
Sides/rear 0.55in RHA
Top/bottom 0.35inRHA

Armament
Secondary 2x .50 water-cooled machine guns
1x .303 air-cooled machine gun


Engine 400hp 4-stroke turbocharged diesel engine
Speed 18mi/hr
Operational range 100mi
Crew 7 (1 commander, 1 driver, 4 gunners, 1 engineer)

---

So I know these are probably bad designs, but I would prefer something a little strange and flavourful to something perfect. Still, what are all of your thoughts?

[frigidmagi]

Okay, stop the presses, vote time.

1st off we have CT's colonial mod.

0: Nothing
1: Colonial Land Area of <200,000 sq. kms
2: Colonial Land Area of >200,000 sq. kms +1 population
3: Colonial Land Area of >600,000 sq. kms+ 1 to population+1 economy
4: Colonial Land Area of >1,000,000 sq. kms+2 to population +1 economy
5: Colonial Land Area of >2,000,000 sq. kms+2 to population,+2 economy

Which I like.

And Second Hadri's Pop mod.

0. 1 million
1. 30 millions
2. 60 millions
3. 90 millions
4. 120 millions
5. 150 millions

I like this one to.

Vote Yea or Nay on each measure, once again no other posting until I say the vote is over.

[Steve]

Aye and Aye.

[Slacker]

Both of 'em are okay by me.

[General Havoc]

Yes to both.

[Academia Nut]

Aye aye.

[rhoenix]

0: Nothing
1: Colonial Land Area of <200,000 sq. kms
2: Colonial Land Area of >200,000 sq. kms +1 population
3: Colonial Land Area of >600,000 sq. kms+ 1 to population+1 economy
4: Colonial Land Area of >1,000,000 sq. kms+2 to population +1 economy
5: Colonial Land Area of >2,000,000 sq. kms+2 to population,+2 economy

Aye.

0. 1 million
1. 30 millions
2. 60 millions
3. 90 millions
4. 120 millions
5. 150 millions

Aye.

[Cynical Cat]

Aye to both.

[Hadrianvs]

1st off we have CT's colonial mod.

Yeah sure, why not?

And Second Hadri's Pop mod.

I am awestruck by the genius of it, and I approve.

[frigidmagi]

The vote is now closed with 7 for and 0 against. I will edit the system.

I now suggest a buy system for the airforce.

10pts 1 wing of 20 monowing planes
15pts 1 wing of 20 2 engine bombers (1,200 pd bombload)
20pts 1 wing of 20 armored zepplins (8,000 pd bombload or 3 monowing planes)

I'm including zepplins for several reasons, one they were sucessfully used in WWI, and given what I've looked up of early 1930s bombers would still carry heavier bomb loads. There's been no Hindenburg crash to kill the idea of using rigid lighter then air ships. I calculated a rough bombload off the report that zepplins ferried 60 passengers on trips over the Altantic, I assumed half were women who weighted 100 pds average and the other half men who weighed 200 pds average with a total average of 150 pds and 50 pds of luggage as average (the flight took days, people had to bring more stuff). I then subtracted for equipment, armor and so on.

[Steve]

With this done I would like to move that we re-open the issue of naval technology. With everything else in the 30s I believe we'd be better off simply allowing the historical evolution of dreadnoughts, which would give them suitable AA weapons and 16"/50 guns as a primary armament with a general standard tonnage of 40-50,000, maybe pushing 55,000 for cutting edge 1928-1930 designs.

[frigidmagi]

Airforce first.

[Steve]

Hrm, that's a higher cost for aircraft than I'm doing over at SDNW3, but I would suppose a lot depends on how many industrial points one gets from Industry score and, potentially, Economy modifier.

[Cynical Cat]

Hrm, that's a higher cost for aircraft than I'm doing over at SDNW3, but I would suppose a lot depends on how many industrial points one gets from Industry score and, potentially, Economy modifier.

There's also the aircraft you start with.

[frigidmagi]

Hrm, that's a higher cost for aircraft than I'm doing over at SDNW3

No offense, but... So what? This isn't SDNW3 and it isn't going to be. I made this assuming we using the point system that Zeke created.

There's also the aircraft you start with.

This would be used to buy the aircraft you start with cat.

[Cynical Cat]

uot;]There's also the aircraft you start with.

This would be used to buy the aircraft you start with cat.

Yes, but aircraft are already part of the system in starting points: i.e. if you wanted your nation to have a big airforce you can but starting points there and that will translate to x many points of aircraft just as starting points in army or navy translate into however many points of ships and divisions.

[rhoenix]

10pts 1 wing of 20 monowing planes
15pts 1 wing of 20 2 engine bombers (1,200 pd bombload)
20pts 1 wing of 20 armored zepplins (8,000 pd bombload or 3 monowing planes)

A question:

The above costs appear to be "per wing" of airplanes - so the above costs would simply to buy the planes themselves, but not the infrastructure needed to build those specific types. Is this the case, or did I misread?

[frigidmagi]

As per the army, it is assumed the ground crews and what not come with the planes.