STGOD! OOC Thread.

[Hotfoot]

I get the feeling Steve got confused because due to the two-month turns we had before he thought (somehow) that the first build cycle ended in March, when in fact it ended in April. The cycle, thusly, is April, August, December, and so on.

[Steve]

No, it's because I remember being told that there was no building in the first two months, or first turn, with the first build cycle starting in the second two-month turn, or March 1930.

[Hotfoot]

Then you failed to understand the system. The cycle comes due, i.e. comes to fruition in April. Then August, then December. Since the second two-month turn included April, that's when it was ultimately due.

[Steve]

So what, we post what we built for a cycle at the end of the cycle? I'd think it more logical if we posted at the start of a cycle.

[Hotfoot]

It doesn't really matter when you post it, but that you have a deadline of posting it by the end of the cycle.

And by post it, I mean sending it to a mod.

What matters is that no matter when you post it, it doesn't happen until April, August, or December, depending on the cycle.

[Steve]

So I have a second queue to make? Hrm... better hop to it.

[Hotfoot]

Here's the way I'm handling it:

I made a list of what I put points into first cycle, then second, then third. I adjust as needed by the shifting situation of the world.

[frigidmagi]

AcNut we're in June. It's to late to make may posts.

[Academia Nut]

Okay, I wasn't sure what the hell month we were in at the time. I will edit about the actual action portion to land in June.

[frigidmagi]

That's fair alot of changes have occurred.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Frigid. The terms of the current negotiations have not as far as I am aware been made public. No press release or formal announcement of those terms. Unless someone's government told you I dont know how your newspaper would be aware of the terms.

[Cynical Cat]

It's getting reported in Hungary. My government has a vested interest in proving that this alliance is producing tangible gains for Hungary.

[Marcao]

Uhh. Well Shit. Things just got really interesting in Europe.

[Steve]

You Magnificent Bastards!

[Cynical Cat]

Attack Plan


In Croatia, the Elite Division acts to secure all German personnel at 1 am.

Hungary
2am
2 Wings of Transport Zeppelins take 5 Elite Regiments and air drop them in the North Danube Valley region with orders to disrupt the Austrian rear lines and transport and logistics between Austria and the rest of Germany until they link up with Hungarian forces
Predawn: Aerial assault launched from Hungary. Primary target is the airfleets based in Switzerland. Secondary Targets are Austrian military units and bases.

Attackers
12 Long Range Fighter Wings
2 Ground Attack Fighter Wings
4 Interceptor Fighter Wings
10 Long Range Bomber Wings
7 Ground Attack Bomber Wings

Simultaneously, air assault launched from Czechoslavakia on
Saxony airfleets.

Attackers
8 Long Range Fighter Wings
3 Long Range Bomber Wings

Dawn attack on German Sudetenland fortifications. Initially, primarily artillery bombardment.

Attackers:
1 Elite Divisions with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
3 Elite Mountain Divisions with Artillery and Field Artillery Regiments (occupying Sudetenland fortifications)
2 Elite Infantry Divisions with Siege Artillery and Engineering Regiments

Ground Assault from Hungary, breaking out through the Danube Valley

1st Army, attacking into northern Austria.
2 Motorized Divisions with Field Artillery and Heavy Tank Brigades
2 Light Tank Divisions with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
2 Heavy Tank Divisions with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
2 Elite Divisions with Field Artillery and Heavy Tank Brigades
2 Infantry Divisions with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
2 AAA Regiments

2nd Army attacking into northern Austria.
2 Motorized Divisions with Field Artillery and Heavy Tank Brigades
1 Light Tank Divisions with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
1 Elite Divisions with Field Artillery and Heavy Tank Brigades
1 Motorized Divison with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
2 Infantry Divisions with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
1 AAA Regiment

3rd Army attacking into sorthern Austria
1 Motorized Division with Field Artillery and Heavy Tank Brigade
1 Light Tank Division with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
2 Cavalry Divisions with Field Artillery Regiments
1 Elite Division with Field Artillery and Heavy Tank Brigade
1 Motorized Divison with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
2 Elite Mountain Divisions with Artillery and Field Artillery Regiments
2 Infantry Divisions with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
1 AAA Regiment

Reinforcing the attack to help destroy pockets of heavy resistance

2 Elite Infantry Divisions with Siege Artillery and Engineering Regiments
2 Siege Zeppelins

Remaining in Hungary
2 AAA Regiments
4 Infantry Divisions with Field Artillery Regiments
3 Infantry Divisions with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments
2 Elite Divisions with Field Artillery and Artillery Regiments

Ground attack plan is simple. Rapid attack with heavy artillery support and any available air support. Light tanks and cavalry maneuver to achieve tactical superiority while heavy tanks break through weak points. Enemy lines are penetrated, rear lines are attacked and disrupted and the enemy is encircled for easy destruction.

Redeployments
3 Ground Attack Fighter Wings in Serbia to Czechoslovakia
5 Fighter Wings in Bosnia to Romania
2 Ground Attack Wings in Romania to Czechoslovakia
2 Long Range Bomber Wings in Romania to Czechoslovakia

After redeployment, the aircraft newly arrived in Czechoslovakia will join in the offensive

Related thematic material

[Hadrianvs]

No changing rules mid-stream? I don't see why not, but okay Magi, your game, your call.

There are however, three things that need to be adressed. One appears to be a clerical oversight, the other two are rules matters that were simply never discussed.

1) Build Costs for Attachments
Currently the build costs for attachments to divisions are all messed up. I noticed this while making a new one for my proposed time system. I though we were going for everything costing twice as much as it's actual worth to make from scratch, unless it's a reserve unit in which case it costs its worth. The current build list has regimental attachment costs all over the place. The most egregious is the heavy tank brigade. It's 50% cheaper and 2/3 faster to build than a heavy tank division. Let me say this again, I can get 400 tanks for the price of 200, and get them faster, if I buy them in brigades. The Elite Infantry Regiment has the opposite problem: I can pay 10 points for 2000 men, or buy a division and pay 30 points for 10 000 men.

Please amend the regimental buy list to match the rest of the costs.

Also, cavalry divisions show up as costing 15 points instead of 20. That makes them 75% cheaper per effectuve point that any other unit.


2) Building during Wartime
Okay, we did discuss this one over IM, as I begged you to have an industry bonus during mobilization. I conceed such a bonus may have not been a good idea since it encouraged people to mobilize to have cheap infrastructure/indistry/economy upgrades. However, I just noticed something interesting that should be addressed before anyone finishes their mobilization.

Currently, a fully mobilized nation builds a unit and designates it to be reserve then it will only costs half as much and come online immediately. I would like one of two things. Either a blanket "all units costs half as much when economy is fully mobilized", or it being set in stone that new reserve divisions will not need to be mobilized if you're already mobilized. Either one represents a wartime economy in different ways. One is more industrial focused, the other one personnel focused. Naturally I prefer the former one, but the latter also works and doesn't impact gameplay as much.


3) Demobilization

Okay, a player's economy score gives one a given ammount of time that one can be mobilized before economic strain sets in. For example. a value of 3 gives 2 years of mobilization.

Let us suppose an Econ 3/Infra 4 player begins mobilizing in August. They will finish mobilizing in October. They can stay mobilized for two years. Suppose they demobilize one year in, wait a month, and then mobilize again. Do they get two years again? No, that doesn't make sense. You don't get rid of of wartime strain in a month.

My suggestion is that you have to spend time demobilized in order to gain more mobilization time. Our hypothetical player was mobilized for one year, and demobilized for one month. My suggestion is that once remobilized they get one year and one month of mobilization. So if they want their full two years back, they have to spend two years not mobilized.

In a calendar it would look like this:

Orders mobilization August '30
Is mobilized in October '30, has two years of mobilization counting from now
Orders demobilization October '31
Orders remobilization November '31
Finishes remobilizing January '32, has one year and one month left

Note that the time spent mobilizing doesn't count either way, and that demobilization is assumed to be instant.

Alternatively, a player's infra score also determines how much time it takes to demobilize. Which means that our Infra 4 player needs to wait two months from the time the demobilization order is given to the time that they start getting their mobilization time back. In that case I would suggest 2 months mobilization is gained per every month spent mobilized, up to the current maximum.

Either way adequately deals with the demobilization loophole that exists as rules currently stand.

[Hadrianvs]

You Magnificent Bastards!

Huh, I did tell someone that Hungary was maybe planning a betrayal worthy of me. Russians are paranoid and cynic for a reason.


Cynical Cat, could you please put that attack plan in the game thread? It's easier to reference later that way, since commentary threads have way more pages.

[General Havoc]

Just in case anyone is confused:

No, I am NOT posting that I have unilaterally conquered Morocco or anywhere else. That was just my prose running away with me. All I am stating in-game is that I am attacking those places, with the forces as-deployed. What results these attacks have are not up to me but the mods. Obviously I have calculated a good result for myself with these attacks, but it's not my call if I succeed in them or not.

[Slacker]

I want to make it clear, because people have already asked, that I did *not* know of the Roman/Hungarian alliance beforehand. I found out about Hungary's double cross about half an hour before the attacks were posted.

I will not *yet* be declaring war on anyone. We are mobilizing. Please, someone provoke me.

[Comrade Tortoise]

Even though I am on the receiving end of this.... I approve

Though Havoc, you need to post your attack plan

[General Havoc]

Goddamnit, how much writing do I need to do. I just wrote a damn novel about these assaults.

Oy.

I'll edit my attack plan and post it up here as soon as I can.

[frigidmagi]

Frigid. The terms of the current negotiations have not as far as I am aware been made public. No press release or formal announcement of those terms. Unless someone's government told you I dont know how your newspaper would be aware of the terms.

Be serious Ben, there's no way on Earth you would keep those terms silence for more then half an hour. Hell it's clear that the Roman government alone made them common knowledge. Your terms were so outrageous every attache, aide and busboy near the meeting would have RAN to the nearest reporter to sing. They're common knowledge. Suck it up.

[General Havoc]

All right, these are edited versions of the battleplans I gave Frigid. I've deleted all of the references to operations past the opening phase of deployment, or contingency plans, but the Mods have all of those in full. This should do as a reference:

Operation Geryon:

Objective: French positions in Morocco and at the Straits of Gibraltar represent a clear and present danger to Roman control over the Mediterranean Sea. Roman forces will neutralize French military units in and around Morocco and seize total control over the straits of Gibraltar, thus securing the Roman military installations in Hispania Ulterior (Gibraltar), closing the entrance to the Mediterranean, and eliminating the threat to Roman North Africa.

Units allocated:
- Fourth Legion 'Equestrus' (Shipboard)
2x Infantry Divisions
1x Elite Infantry Division
2x Artillery
1x Field guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA

- Fourteenth Legion 'Rapax' (Shipboard)
2x Infantry Divisions
1x Elite Infantry Division
2x Artillery
1x Field guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA

- 3rd Marine Cohort (Oran)
1x Elite Infantry Regiment
1x Engineers

- 5th Marine Cohort (Gibraltar)
1x Elite Infantry Regiment
1x Engineers

- 6th Marine Cohort (Gibraltar)
1x Elite Infantry Regiment
1x Engineers

- Roman Mediterranean Fleet (En-route to Gibraltar)
Aircraft Carriers: Gaius Julius Caesar, Cola di Rienzus Tribunus Maximus, Gaius Marius, Aeneas
Battleships: Nemesis, Nike, Poseidon
Cruisers: Neapolis, Barcino
Destroyers: Perseus, Polydeuces
Escorts: Marcus Ulpaius Traianus, Marcus Porcius Cato, Draco, Socrates, Themistocles, Gulielmus Shakesperius Auctorus Rex
Submarines: Scamander, Ter

- Epsilon Force (Gibraltar)
Aircraft Carrier: Romulus
Battleships: Triton, Erinyes
Battlecruiser: Zeus
Cruisers: Syracuse, Athens
Destroyers: Orpheus, Atalante, Castor, Herakles
Escorts: Aristotle, Publius Scipio Africanus, Marcus Tullius Cicero, Flavius Petrus Justinius, Pericles, Belisarius, Picus Mirandula, Michael Angelus Bonarotius, Franciscus Petrarca Renascentus, Nicolaus Maclavellus Advocor, Laurentius Medices Magnificus, Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus
Submarines: Cyanos, Casuentus, Haliacmon, Orontes, Tifernus, Vulturnus, Meander, Aragon, Ubus, Athesis

- Screening Force (Canary Islands)
Submarines: Thermodon, Sangarius, Marista, Rubicon, Halyacmon, Milian, Alpheus, Leontes, Rhodanus, Aternus

- 6th Air Fleet (Gibraltar)
1x Fighter Squadron (Ground attack)
1x Fighter Squadron (Air Superiority)


Operational Plan

The Roman Fourth and Fourteenth Legions, for various assumed reasons, are presently both heading in the direction of Gibraltar, the latter under close escort by the entire Mediterranean Fleet. While there is no secrecy as to the fleets' movements, care has been taken that they will both arrive in the vicinity of the Straits of Gibraltar at sundown on X-1. As the two fleets enter the Straits in darkness, the following is to occur:

- Escorts Marcus Ulpaius Traianus and Marcus Porcius Cato will continue sailing through the straits as normal, producing as much radio traffic (in code) as possible, so as to simulate the continued progress of the Mediterranean Fleet westwards towards the Atlantic.

- Epsilon Force is to sortie from Gibraltar under cover of darkness in company with the 4th and 5th Marine Cohorts loaded in transports. All fleets and transports will rendezvous and merge, prior to splitting once more into the following deployments.

- All Submarines will fan out westward into the Atlantic to form a cordon against any hostile ships in the area. These will be joined by submarines from the Screening force, to ensure no enemy forces molest the combined fleet.

- Four Battleships, Three Aircraft Carriers, and a proportionally larger number of escorts and lighter ships, along with the 5th Marine Cohort and Fourth Legion, will move south and west and make for the port city of Casablanca, arriving there before dawn. This force shall be designated "Task Force Alpha"

- Remaining ships, as well as the 6th Marine Cohort and Fourteenth Legion, designated "Task Force Beta", will cross the Straits of Gibraltar towards Tangiers and Ceuta, on the Moroccan side of the straits.

At dawn, on X-day, the 6th Air Fleet will sortie all aircraft and attack French installations in and around the cities of Tangiers and Ceuta. As this occurs, Task Force Beta ships will attack all French naval and coast defense units located in this area with a combination of direct shipborne artillery fire and carrier aircraft. Absolute importance is given to the element of surprise. All units are to coordinate attacks to the minute. At the same time, ships and naval aircraft from Task Force Alpha will do the same to enemy installations in and around Casablanca.

As these attacks are being delivered, the 5th and 6th Marine cohorts will land in Casablanca and Tangiers respectively, followed by the Fourth and Fourteenth Legions in their entirety. Their objective is to secure cordons around these cities as rapidly as possible, and neutralize all French units encountered in the vicinity. Together, this will put 40,000+ Roman combat effectives ashore at both Casablanca and Tangiers, overwhelming the defense with massive local superiority of numbers and firepower. Ground troops will call upon fire support both from their own organic artillery, and from naval forces offshore.

[General Havoc]

Operation Claudius:

Objective: German forces on the Alpine border with the Roman Empire represent Germany's primary means of threatening the Empire's territorial integrity. Destroy them and the enemy's capacity to threaten Noricum and Italy.

Units allocated:

- Second Legion 'Triumphator' (Bolzano)
2x Infantry Divisions
1x Elite Infantry Division
2x Artillery
1x Field guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA

- Eighth Legion 'Mortis' (Biasca)
2x Infantry Divisions
1x Elite Infantry Division
2x Artillery
1x Field guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA

- 3rd Independent Artillery Cohort (Border fortifications)
1x Artillery
1x Siege Artillery

- 8th Independent Artillery Cohort (Bolzano)
1x Artillery
1x Siege Artillery

- 9th Independent Artillery Cohort (Biasca)
1x Artillery
1x Siege Artillery

- 2nd Independent AAA Cohort (Border fortifications)
1x AAA

- 5th Independent AAA Cohort (Bolzano)
1x AAA

- 9th Independent AAA Cohort (Martigny)
1x AAA

- 3rd Air Fleet (Northern Italy)
1x Fighter Squadron (Long Range)
2x Fighter Squadron (Air Superiority)
1x Fighter Squadron (Ground Attack)

- 4th Air Fleet (Balkans)
2x Fighter Squadron (Air Superiority)
1x Bomber Squadron (Ground Attack)


Operational Plan

At Dawn on X-Day (See Operation Geryon), the Roman Army of Norricum will launch a massive assault all across Northern Italy on the German border fortifications facing the Empire. The German Army of Switzerland is a powerful force, but the border forts are manned only by a single Elite division of German troops, supported by one regiment of siege artillery and one of Anti-air guns spread along the border. Thus, the Roman forces should enjoy a local superiority of 6:1 on the ground, and of roughly 9:1 in artillery. In addition to this, the 3rd Air Fleet will launch strikes against enemy artillery positions and other targets of opportunity, so as to assist the infantry in breaking through the enemy defenses.

The objective is to destroy the German border defense units and occupy their border defenses before the enemy is able to mobilize and deploy their Swiss army to support the border. This is to be done through surprise and overwhelming mass of fire and numbers. The enemy air forces are not expected to play a significant role, given the Hungarian assaults to take place simultaneously, but the 3rd Air Fleet is to be prepared for German air attacks just in case, and to protect the infantry from molestation.

The 4th Air Fleet is to re-enforce the 3rd Air Fleet as the battle progresses, by flying in from their bases to the East and South.

[General Havoc]

Operation Hannibal:

Objective: The largest and most ambitious Roman battle plan in history, Operation Hannibal is aimed at no less than the total destruction of the French Army of the South, and the occupation of the Rhone Valley, Pyrenees, and French Mediterranean Coast.


Units allocated:


Battlegroup Caesar

- Fifth Legion 'Alaudae' (Gap)
2x Infantry Divisions
1x Elite Infantry Division
2x Artillery
1x Field guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA

- Tenth Eligere Legion 'Turcii' (Gap)
3x Elite Infantry Divisions
2x Artillery
1x Field Guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA
1x Light Tank Brigade

- 1st Motorized Cohort (Gap)
1/2x Motorized Infantry Division

- 2nd Motorized Cohort (Gap)
1/2x Motorized Infantry Division

- 1st Armored Cohort (Gap)
1/2x Light Armored Division
1/2x Heavy Armored Brigade

- 2nd Armored Cohort (Gap)
1/2x Light Armored Division
1/2x Heavy Armored Brigade


Battlegroup Marius

- Twelfth Legion 'Furia Aragonae' (Zaragosa)
2x Infantry Divisions
1x Elite Infantry Division
2x Artillery
1x Field guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA

- Thirteenth Eligere Legion 'Valeria Victrix' (Lleida)
3x Elite Infantry Divisions
2x Artillery
1x Field Guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA
1x Light Tank Brigade

- 3rd Motorized Cohort (Lleida)
1/2x Motorized Infantry Division

- 3rd Armored Cohort (Lleida)
1/2x Light Armored Division
1/2x Heavy Armored Brigade

- 1st Independent Artillery Cohort (Zaragosa)
1x Artillery
1x Siege Artillery

- 4th Independent Artillery Cohort (Lleida)
1x Artillery
1x Siege Artillery

- 3rd Independent AAA Cohort (Zaragosa)
1x AAA

- 7th Marine Cohort (Palermo)
1x Elite Infantry Regiment
1x Engineers

- 9th Marine Cohort (Palermo)
1x Elite Infantry Regiment
1x Engineers


Battlegroup Fabius

- Seventh Legion 'Felix' (Arles)
2x Infantry Divisions
1x Elite Infantry Division
2x Artillery
1x Field guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA

- First Eligere Legion 'Primagenita' (Avignon)
3x Elite Infantry Divisions
2x Artillery
1x Field Guns
2x Engineers
1x AAA
1x Light Tank Brigade

- 1st Marine Cohort (Marseilles)
1x Elite Infantry Regiment
1x Engineers

- 2nd Independent Artillery Cohort (Avignon)
1x Artillery
1x Siege Artillery

- 5th Independent Artillery Cohort (Arles)
1x Artillery
1x Siege Artillery

- 7th Independent AAA Cohort (Arles)
1x AAA

- 9th Independent AAA Cohort (Avignon)
1x AAA


- Balearic Station
Cruisers: Ostia, Florentia
Destroyers: Agamemmnon, Cassandra, Triptolemus, Meleager


- 1st Air Fleet (Aragon)
1x Fighter Squadron (Long Range)
2x Fighter Squadron (Air Superiority)
1x Fighter Squadron (Ground Attack)
1x Bomber Squadron (Ground Attack)

- 2nd Air Fleet (Provence)
1x Fighter Squadron (Long Range)
2x Fighter Squadron (Air Superiority)
1x Fighter Squadron (Ground Attack)
1x Bomber Squadron (Ground Attack)
1x Airship Squadron (Air Superiority)


Operational Plan

On X-Day, the Roman 1st and 2nd Air Fleets will launch dawn raids against French airfields throughout southern France, with the objective of destroying as much of the French air forces on the ground as possible. Following this, the air forces' role will be the denial of air superiority to the enemy, rather than the securing of it for Rome. Fighter wings will intercept enemy air strikers, while airships and tactical attack aircraft will concentrate at need to provide local superiority over specific operational targets. It is believed that if neither side can obtain air superiority, the advantage will pass to Rome's superior ground forces in the operations to come.

The entire French Army in the south consists of 4 divisions of assorted infantry, 2 elite infantry regiments, 7 tank brigades, 2 siege artillery regiments, and assorted support units. Counting all of Rome's forces in the region combined, this gives Rome roughly 4.5:1 numerical odds in infantry, and an astonishing 10:1 advantage in artillery of all sorts. Though the enemy has rough parity in numbers of tanks deployed, their infantry is generally inferior to ours, and we have the advantage of both artillery and field guns available on-hand to all infantry formations. Accordingly, Operation Hannibal calls for a massive, coordinated assault on the Southern French army from all directions simultaneously.

Battlegroup Caesar, based in the Alpine passes around the city of Gap, will launch a single attack westwards, down the St. Croix and Vercors passes, penetrate the Rhone River Valley, and capture the city of Valence.

Battlegroup Marius, based in northern Aragon and Catalonia, will make demonstrations and attacks towards the main Pyrenees passes with the ultimate objective of forcing them. The main attack however will come from the sea. The 7th and 9th Marine Cohorts will, with the support of the ships of the Balearic Station, land near the city of Narbonne on the French coast, to be supported by a naval leapfrogging maneuver by the entire Thirteenth Legion, an elite formation whose job will be to secure Narbonne and then press inland towards Carcasonne, in conjunction with an overland strike by the Twelfth Legion.

Battlegroup Fabius, based in Provence itself and manning the fortifications along the Rhone River, will employ artillery and probing attacks to fix the majority of the French Southern Army in place while the other two battlegroups move into position. The 1st Marine Cohort meanwhile, is to strike along the coast in a series of hit and fade attacks, with the objective of capturing or destroying the enemy's reserve submarine squadrons emplaced there. They will be supported in this mission by the Balearic Squadron.