STGOD! OOC Thread.

[Slacker]

The exceptionally high levels of force both France and Germany have in their colonies, coupled with your tiny-ass navies, is what's going to give you guys the most trouble. Not for nothing, you guys think I was an idiot for taking colonies over in India and then taking a big navy when the Russians have nothing but subs in reserve. Here's the trick-I can actually reinforce my Indian army. I took colonies in response to a complaint that none of the European powers were taking colonies, NOT because I actually really wanted the damn things. Having been committed to them, I decided to put myself in a position where I could at least vaguely protect them.

You can't bring those forces home from Africa without the Romans blowing them into tiny pieces. My Baltic Seas fleet outmatches your entire Alliance's navy. That's a problem.

The Vasan diplomatic engine will do their best to ensure this isn't a total raping, and do its best to ensure punitive annexations are kept vaguely reasonable.

[General Havoc]

The war literally began yesterday, people, and there's a great deal of shooting and bloodshed to go before it's over. Flattered as I am that you all seem to think I have already won, I'm concentrating on present operations, rather than what may happen in the future, or might have happened in the past.

He who counts the spoils of a war he has not yet won has left the path of wisdom.

[Steve]

If anything I'd hope you and CynCat have a coherent strategic plan. Not just the plan to fight but what you actually want to do in the war, what your political objectives are, and if those objectives are feasible from the perspective not only of getting your enemies to accept them but of how you'll handle things post-war.

Also, I've added my reservist layout by Kingdom region to my info post in the OOB/Info thread. Every week starting this Saturday for July I'll amend my OrBat to add a sixth of my reservist formations to my active OrBat, with specific postings.

[Hotfoot]

Steve, with respect, you don't get reserves at ALL until the delay time is up, not in bits and pieces.

[Steve]

Hrm? I remember it being otherwise.

[Hotfoot]

Oh really? What part of "the clock doesn't start until the mobilization is finished" and "it takes X months to mobilize your reserves" says "you get them in percentage chunks, rounded up or down and by priority you set"?

You're BASICALLY saying you want reserves for FREE for months ahead of time. That's bullshit.

To clarify, your interpretation means you get up to 5/6 of your reserves FOR FREE, no penalty whatsoever. I call bull.

[Steve]

The clock doesn't start until mobilization is completed, yes, but I'm looking at Frigid's listing now and it doesn't say a thing about "reserves come active all at once at the very end of the mobilization period".

How fast your reserves can mobilize is determined by your infrastructure.

That's the only thing said about this subject, as opposed to the "clock" remark which is how long mobilization can be sustained. It doesn't preclude a steady buildup as units come active while others are still working up, with the speed in which this process occurs effected by a nation's infrastructure (and thus how quickly units can be set up, manned, and put into deployment).

So I'm sorry if I presumed reserve activations would happen realistically, as in increments over the time period, as it is I'll wait to see what Frig says.

[frigidmagi]

It's exactly how Hotfoot says Steve. Because I didn't want endless debates over how many reservists would be ready at what time.

[Hotfoot]

I'll also point out that Steve's interpretation suddenly turns a low infrastructure into an asset rather than a penalty, since you can keep larger portions of your reserves active for longer periods of time for no damage to your economy. I'm naturally against an interpretation that goes so flagrantly against the spirit of the rules.

We've known for some time that the rules had to make some changes to reality, both for better and for worse.

A general tip: if everyone else is doing things one way, it would be best to ask, possibly in this thread, via PM, or AIM, one of the mods to confirm that this is perhaps the best method, instead of outright proclaiming you're going to do something one way or another. Otherwise, it's usually sensible to assume that it's the proper method.

[Hadrianvs]

I'll also point out that Steve's interpretation suddenly turns a low infrastructure into an asset rather than a penalty, since you can keep larger portions of your reserves active for longer periods of time for no damage to your economy.

Only if you assume a linear mobilization curve, and exponential curve would reward high infrastructure.

Anyway, I hadn't realized just how bloody slow mobilization is until I looked at the current war. I mean since I'm Russia, I got land to retreat, I can afford a two month mobilization like it's nothing. Hell, I could probably afford a six month mobilization. I even went to the trouble of designating a back-up capital at the Volga, and if they take that one I got two more behind the Urals. Everyone else doesn't have it quite that easy, though. Which brings us to the problem that the pace of warfare and the pace of mobilization don't match each other at all.

[Hotfoot]

Only if you assume a linear mobilization curve, and exponential curve would reward high infrastructure.

Linear is already enough of a mathematical nightmare. Exponential? Oy.

Again, assuming more complexity in the rules? Generally it means you're going in the wrong direction. Remember the big push for simplicity?

[frigidmagi]

Alright after some mod discussion, Charon will be in charge of the Pacific war. AcNut, Steve you report to him.

I'm in charge of the Sudan and Europe.

[Hadrianvs]

Linear is already enough of a mathematical nightmare. Exponential? Oy.

I'm having difficulty imagining how anyone who graduated high school could consider a linear function a mathematic nightmare. I think what you want to say is that it's more work than you want to put in for a game.

[Steve]

Choice of landing sight notwithstanding (since obviously the region can change) the number of troops quoted to me is... stupendous for an amphibious op, especially at the long range distance being used, with minimal air support and no powerful NGFS, and of course you need follow-up shipping to sustain these troops or you've just thrown 190,000 men into the Australian desert to die of thirst and croc attacks.

[Hotfoot]

Hadri, honestly? I don't give a fuck about your bullshit nitpicks. Hey, guess what, if you can suss out what I mean, then I guess I conveyed it properly. Was it perhaps more dramatic than was needed? Maybe, but I've found that some people don't get it when I talk in more diplomatic terms. I'm laying it out clearly and I'm frankly getting really tired of all the nonsense. I've had some rather complex and very interesting math courses in my time, but I'm fully aware of people who have not, and people who have graduated with a four year degree who consider anything above Algebra 1 to be bothersome and taxing. You don't? Fine. Don't assume you're the gold standard by which all others are measured, and certainly don't come in here with some high and mighty attitude that such knowledge or facility thereof is needed or expected for every day life. In all the jobs I've held, EVER, I've not once needed my not inconsiderable math training. It's made my life easier from time to time, but it's certainly not been necessary and I've already forgotten a good portion of the shit I do not need.

And the next time you want to edit one of my posts and throw in a snide comment in the process, don't. It's not endearing.

[Hadrianvs]

And the next time you want to edit one of my posts and throw in a snide comment in the process, don't. It's not endearing.

I was just trying to be helpful by proving an alternate explanation as to why you didn't want to bring algebra into the game. It is a game after all, so "I don't want to do work" is a perfectly reasonable argument even if you were able to perform mental calculations faster than a guy with a calculator.

[frigidmagi]

Alright both you are done right fucking now. If you continue this conservation I will toss you both out of the game and the thread. That means done. No snide comments or parting shots.

[Cynical Cat]

Fucking Canadians. They're sneaky bastards, always ready to attack someone when they don't expect it.

[Steve]

I just figured AcNut has a bunch of soldiers he wants to see killed or captured and a few ships who's crews he didn't like....

[Comrade Tortoise]

Was your entire plan based on having other nations doing your heavy lifting?

Actually no. When I deployed my troops initially I was trying to guard against a number of nations which may be hostile over a large territory, and was not counting on the war happening this fast. When havoc came to the negotiating table it was a shock to me, as I was just seeing the "months before war sabre rattling"

Prior to war I would have mobilized my reserves and brought in my colonial troops.

[The Cleric]

Scorched earth being destruction of roadways and anything in supply depots that couldn't be carried away. And no, I'm not foolish enough to place supply depots within artillery range of my border. Battle results left vague until Frigid/Havoc/me get to hash it out.

[Comrade Tortoise]

I went off locations etc listed in attack plans because it was easier to get through than all of the prose. If there are errors, let me know and I can fix them.

[General Havoc]

Okay, CT, I've got some problems:

Firstly, Frigid said explicitly that there is to be no "magical" conjuration of minefields or other demolition "contingencies" in this game unless you've cleared such things with him first. You have two engineering regiments in Switzerland, and while I do not doubt that they could and would demolish bridges, roads, and other transit lanes through the Alps, that's a hell of a lot of ground to cover (all of Switzerland and the Tyrol) to blow every road. Not to mention that your engineers are explicitly not on the frontlines (your sole frontier division has only Siege Arty and AAA), meaning that you're demolishing quite a ways back from the front, and thus cutting off your frontier garrison and defenses.

Secondly, you cannot have AAA guns that are simultaneously outside Siege Artillery Range (which is 50 miles or more) and within visual range of the front. Nor can you have AAA guns that are simultaneously located on the peaks of mountains and camouflaged.

The Roman Border troops are ordered in your post to take all of their equipment and move to the Northern Slopes of... what exactly? Are these your actual border troops? In which case I'm already in close contact with them and you've already demolished the roads and bridges behind them? Or were you referring to the actual Army of Switzerland? In which case which Northern Slopes are they heading for? The ones facing me? Or are they heading east to meet the Hungarians?

Similarly, I can't figure out what this business is with the border forts and Dresden and the airbases near Leipzig. The Hungarian air attack came at night, and radar does not yet exist, so how exactly was this alarm sounded? Nor have I any idea where you pulled an Army base from rather than the airbase that Hungary's bombers explicitly targeted. Moreover, when flying from Bohemia, one does not fly over Dresden to get to Leipzig or vice versa. I'm not crying foul, I simply don't understand what's going on there.

But mostly I'm wondering about the timing of all this. Despite surprise, and the fact that you had, by your own admission, "put our military on stand down pending the success or failure of these negotiations," you now indicate that all of your planes are in the air when the attack comes, and your troops "somewhat" surprised, even though the first indication I gave of the attack was an artillery barrage, not an infantry strike.

In some cases, I can see how this is reasonable. Your Swiss air force for instance was further away from the bombers attacking it, and thus may have had time to get ready. Similarly, your Swiss Army Engineers were not in the direct line of fire, and thus surprise may not have been decisive. But 100% readiness is a bit hard to believe, especially when you explicitly stand your army down.

But then, this is merely all my biased viewpoint, and Frigid will no doubt adjudicate everything properly.

[frigidmagi]

CT we need to talk, alot of what's going on in your post isn't workable. Somewhat is a dramatic understatement. These guys thought the war wasn't gonna happen. You've already admitted that.

Also has a combat engineer, you are fucking dreaming if you think 4,000 engineers can destroy "every bridge, road, railway, and tunnel between them and the front lines."

Railways I'll grant you, those are easy to fuck up. Small children with proper guidance can manage it. Bridges harder and time comsuming and NO you do not have every bridge in Switzerland pre-rigged, that's bloody insane. Tunnel is a bit harder if you want to do it right but you can simply blow one end shut and call it cheese dicked.

Roads? Roads are hard. Roads require days of sheer labor to wreck. Almost as hard to wreck as they are to build. Bluntly put I don't think a mere 4,000 men can pull it off. Even if you pull in civilians and infantry troops (which will impact their ability to fight) it's not happening.


That said, Siege guns returning fire is reasonable. As I recall it'll take siege guns a full day to reduce a harden post. You can shot back the entire time. Still given the number imbalance you will lose. Havoc you'll take a lump or two in the doing though.

Your gureilla warriors bit? I don't see any indication that they're trained to think on that level. Honestly most troops, normal ones who aren't marine level crazy, surrender first. Even Marines would surrender before choosing certain death. You can always die later, undying is hard, as Jesus didn't share the cheat codes before he left.

Are you ceding the Austrian border battle? If so I'll draw up the causalities. Yes both sides are taking some. No you don't get to pick yours.

Your AAA guns are gonna be piss poor at night and I'm wondering how your boys even saw them coming? No radar as Havoc said.


That said the alarms going off all over Germany seems reasonable, you just got the great grandmother of all pearl habors and you do have radio. So that stands.


Cleric's request for a meeting between myself, Havoc and him is reasonable and granted. I'm off all day tomorrow, come talk to me guys.

[Cynical Cat]

CT can't bar the path of the 1st and 2nd armies with alpine troops. They aren't near the Alps, they're in the northern part of the Danube River Valley. 3rd Army is on the south and could potentially be engaged.

His miraculously hyper alert Germans have already been addressed. Some people will manage to scramble and put up a fight by the time I get there (there are alarms and radio) but that still takes time and they won't know things are going wrong until they start going wrong. Some guys should be caught with their pants down (how many exactly is up to frigid).