Star Wars: The Tide Turns (VOIP Game)

[Cynical Cat]

yes

[rhoenix]

Tuesday works for me.

[Academia Nut]

Tuesday works for me, but I may be a little late as I'm pulling a somewhat unexpected shift at work to cover for someone else. In any case, I will be there because it has been like a month since I was last in a game, it just might take me a while. Don't wait up on me and let that delay things though.

[Stofsk]

Should be fine.

[Stofsk]

Sorry about today's session. I'm not feeling up to gaming I'm afraid. I hope you guys carried on without me though. :sad:

[Cynical Cat]

Sorry about today's session. I'm not feeling up to gaming I'm afraid. I hope you guys carried on without me though. :sad:

It was a wash. Hotfoot wasn't firing on all cylinders so we decided to switch to Wednesday. Hope you can make it.

[Academia Nut]

Sorry guys if you waited on me, I thought I said yesterday that I had a thing at work to do tonight. I should have posted a reminder since Hotfoot was out of it.

[Hotfoot]

Just to remind everyone, the game is tomorrow at 7PM Eastern Time, (roughly 22 hours from this post). Please make sure your characters are up to date and ready to go. If there are any conflicts, please let me know ahead of time.

[Hotfoot]

Due to the GM being very ill, there will be no game planned this week.

[Stofsk]

Get well soon.

[rhoenix]

Get well soon.

Echoed.

[Stofsk]

Sorry I wasn't online today. I just couldn't get out of bed, I felt really exhausted for some reason.

[rhoenix]

Game didn't happen - no stress. Next week.

[Hotfoot]

Just as a reminder, there will be a game attempt today.

[Hotfoot]

The con game went well, and the full effects of it will be noted in future games from this point on. In 24 hours, you may start to see the first ripples of the actions of random strangers in the campaign.

[rhoenix]

I have grenades!

And by that, I mean awesome.

[Hotfoot]

Okay, due to out of control circumstances, we'll try again for about 13 hours from now.

[Stofsk]

Some thoughts-

-Evasion is really cheesy. It's a great talent to take, because its so powerful, but it's just really cheesy. Perfect example is when Eric shot a missile into a group of TIEs when Antares was among them, knowing full well that with evasion, there was no way Antares was going to take damage. I feel like maybe evasion should be toned down a bit? I don't want to nerf it, but at the same time I don't like the cheese aspect. Maybe make a relevant roll (so in the above example, make a pilot check; on foot, maybe make a pseudo-initiative check, or some other skill check?).

-We're getting to the point where front line troops aren't presenting much of a challenge. We took down two squadrons of mixed units, mainly TIE Fighters, but also Interceptors and Bombers. I noticed though that combat took quite awhile to sort through. I was wondering if maybe the quantity of opposition could be dialed down, but the quality be increased? Interceptors are barely a match for X-wings, but Interceptors with senior pilots on the other hand would be fearsome. Similarly with stormtroopers. I've lost count of how many encounters have ended with area attacks courtesy of a lobbed grenade or two. If stormtroopers and TIE Fighters are going to conveniently gather up so that they can be taken out with a well placed area attack, their threat diminishes. It would be interesting to see troopers separate into pairs, attempt to flank, take cover etc.

-As for TIE Fighters, there is no easy solution to this one. The area-effect of concussion missiles seems pretty large. It certainly is nice to take out or damage multiple units in one shot though. And we are using the medium sized missile launchers on the Aggro Negotiator. The Interceptors were hard to hit, though...

* * *

Proposal to look at: tractor beams in combat. According to the core rulebook, it doesn't seem to have a benefit to tractor a fighter in combat, or not that I can see. This doesn't make a lot of sense, since tractors are used in the EU to swat fighters and disrupt their harassment of bigger ships. I'm also thinking with regards to how the TIE Defender operated with a tractor beam. By activating it, dogfighting became a lethal proposition for the opposing fighter if the TieDef got on its six - tractor locks on, target becomes a sitting duck. I was wondering if maybe a successful tractor lock would substantially affect a target's reflex defence, making it easier to hit.

I'd like to see Antares get a promotion. He's getting more and more competent on the battlefield and more and more experienced. Flight Officer > Lieutenant > Captain > Commander. To lead a squadron he'd need to be a Commander eventually, but doesn't have to be right away. But we haven't really gotten a firm take on the passage of time. How much time has passed since the beginning of the game? A couple months? Half a year? There must have been periods of down time (nobdoy could keep up with the sort of pace we've been setting without any downtime).

Good idea re: working on the infrastructure and logistics side of the equation with building a squadron. I'd like to think as our value to the Rebels becomes more and more apparent, more and more resources will begin to flow, but that's just part of it. I anticipate Antares brainstorming with Eric and others about this issue. The last running battle against the Interceptors in particular would have been greatly assisted with even a couple of cohorts sitting in a second pair of X-wings.

Finding a base of operations, acquiring the supplies and setting up the logistics, and resources necessary, and recruiting talented pilots as well as support staff are all seeds for adventure....

Thoughts? Agree/disagree?

[Hotfoot]

As far as lack of danger from basic troops, don't worry, that's going to change, as I'm going to start using squadrons for fighters and groups for troops, but expect that the general level of bad guy is going to improve overall.

As of right now, it's only been about a month and a half since the start of the game, things have been moving quickly.

For getting more fighters, it is going to be hard to have fighters available beyond the two from the Citadel, unless you rip some parts out or lower its cargo capacity.

On that note, it IS possible to have a squadron at your back, using the rules in pg. 31 of the Starships of the Galaxy. The trick is going to be bringing them on missions with you. This will be possible with your current ship, but much easier with a larger vessel.

[Marcao]

-Evasion is really cheesy. It's a great talent to take, because its so powerful, but it's just really cheesy. Perfect example is when Eric shot a missile into a group of TIEs when Antares was among them, knowing full well that with evasion, there was no way Antares was going to take damage. I feel like maybe evasion should be toned down a bit? I don't want to nerf it, but at the same time I don't like the cheese aspect. Maybe make a relevant roll (so in the above example, make a pilot check; on foot, maybe make a pseudo-initiative check, or some other skill check?).

Evasion is one of the best talents in the game for the purposes of adding survivability. It is unchanged in SW Saga from its standard D20 incarnations. Frankly, I am of the opinion that it is a very powerful ability which is exactly why I picked it up. I am also of the opinion that without it a PC is too vulnerable to a host of AOE damage that is readily available in space and in the ground. I do not as of this time have any suggestions as to how to "balance" it. I do not support the idea of a skill check tied to the feat. It adds not only an extra level of complexity into the system (rolling dice) but it penalizes and benefits certain classes and ship types under such a system. If Evasion will get modified in our game, I ask for permission to discard my level in scout and to be allowed to retroactively choose another class.

-We're getting to the point where front line troops aren't presenting much of a challenge. We took down two squadrons of mixed units, mainly TIE Fighters, but also Interceptors and Bombers. I noticed though that combat took quite awhile to sort through. I was wondering if maybe the quantity of opposition could be dialed down, but the quality be increased? Interceptors are barely a match for X-wings, but Interceptors with senior pilots on the other hand would be fearsome. Similarly with stormtroopers. I've lost count of how many encounters have ended with area attacks courtesy of a lobbed grenade or two. If stormtroopers and TIE Fighters are going to conveniently gather up so that they can be taken out with a well placed area attack, their threat diminishes. It would be interesting to see troopers separate into pairs, attempt to flank, take cover etc.

I fully expect that as we level, the opposition that we will face will also level with us. It may not be super realistic that the elite forces of the Empire will happen to be where we go, but it is the logical response to increasing PC levels. By and large, TIE Fighters have a difficult time threattening a vessel with 55 shields such as the Aggro Negotiations. The discrepancy will only get worse after Erik picks up the tech specialist feat and improves those shields to 70. Currently, the expectation is that tie fighters will be gradually overshadowed by tie interceptors, more tie bombers will be around (which are not nearly as scary as they could be due to Evasion by two key PCs) as well as the eventual introduction of the TIE advanced and TIE Defenders. Frankly, the GM still has a host of ways to make space and ground combat more challenging. The abuse of grenades on the ground alone by stormtroopers will likely maim/kill any PC without Evasion if the GM is feeling particularly...inspired.

-As for TIE Fighters, there is no easy solution to this one. The area-effect of concussion missiles seems pretty large. It certainly is nice to take out or damage multiple units in one shot though. And we are using the medium sized missile launchers on the Aggro Negotiator. The Interceptors were hard to hit, though...

with a light concussion missile, it is nearly impossible to kill a group of tie fighters. It requires a near perfect hit (70 damage with a 7d10+2 weapon currently) to do such. The Aggro Negotiator has light concussion missiles not medium ones.

* * *

Proposal to look at: tractor beams in combat. According to the core rulebook, it doesn't seem to have a benefit to tractor a fighter in combat, or not that I can see. This doesn't make a lot of sense, since tractors are used in the EU to swat fighters and disrupt their harassment of bigger ships. I'm also thinking with regards to how the TIE Defender operated with a tractor beam. By activating it, dogfighting became a lethal proposition for the opposing fighter if the TieDef got on its six - tractor locks on, target becomes a sitting duck. I was wondering if maybe a successful tractor lock would substantially affect a target's reflex defence, making it easier to hit.

Tractor beams are poorly balanced in game. They cost 10 emplacement points, the mechanic for their usage is very clunky and frankly they are not worth the hassle. I don't think any fighter mounts a tractor beam or similar system in the current setting.

I'd like to see Antares get a promotion. He's getting more and more competent on the battlefield and more and more experienced. Flight Officer > Lieutenant > Captain > Commander. To lead a squadron he'd need to be a Commander eventually, but doesn't have to be right away. But we haven't really gotten a firm take on the passage of time. How much time has passed since the beginning of the game? A couple months? Half a year? There must have been periods of down time (nobdoy could keep up with the sort of pace we've been setting without any downtime).

Good idea re: working on the infrastructure and logistics side of the equation with building a squadron. I'd like to think as our value to the Rebels becomes more and more apparent, more and more resources will begin to flow, but that's just part of it. I anticipate Antares brainstorming with Eric and others about this issue. The last running battle against the Interceptors in particular would have been greatly assisted with even a couple of cohorts sitting in a second pair of X-wings.

Finding a base of operations, acquiring the supplies and setting up the logistics, and resources necessary, and recruiting talented pilots as well as support staff are all seeds for adventure....

I cannot disagree with the idea that we all should be clawing our way up the ranks of the alliance with surprising alacrity given some of the successes we have had in the field of honor. I will be more than happy to plot/work with Antares as to what steps to take in the future regarding their long term mutually beneficial goals. ^_~

[Stofsk]

Evasion is one of the best talents in the game for the purposes of adding survivability. It is unchanged in SW Saga from its standard D20 incarnations. Frankly, I am of the opinion that it is a very powerful ability which is exactly why I picked it up. I am also of the opinion that without it a PC is too vulnerable to a host of AOE damage that is readily available in space and in the ground. I do not as of this time have any suggestions as to how to "balance" it. I do not support the idea of a skill check tied to the feat. It adds not only an extra level of complexity into the system (rolling dice) but it penalizes and benefits certain classes and ship types under such a system. If Evasion will get modified in our game, I ask for permission to discard my level in scout and to be allowed to retroactively choose another class.

Lol okay we won't modify it. I still think its cheesy though.

I fully expect that as we level, the opposition that we will face will also level with us. It may not be super realistic that the elite forces of the Empire will happen to be where we go, but it is the logical response to increasing PC levels. By and large, TIE Fighters have a difficult time threatening a vessel with 55 shields such as the Aggro Negotiations. The discrepancy will only get worse after Erik picks up the tech specialist feat and improves those shields to 70. Currently, the expectation is that tie fighters will be gradually overshadowed by tie interceptors, more tie bombers will be around (which are not nearly as scary as they could be due to Evasion by two key PCs) as well as the eventual introduction of the TIE advanced and TIE Defenders. Frankly, the GM still has a host of ways to make space and ground combat more challenging. The abuse of grenades on the ground alone by stormtroopers will likely maim/kill any PC without Evasion if the GM is feeling particularly...inspired.

Hotfoot and I talked at length on this topic. I don't necessarily want things to be harder, because he made the point that I'm having an easier time of things compared to others in the group who are missing more or getting hurt more. I think the method Cam's going to use in coming sessions will be better in this regard: Antares and Kell will be facing off against more experienced pilots in better ships while the CR1 guys deal with the guys on the Aggro Negotiations.

I have ideas to make combat experience more interesting/challenging, but I accept that Saga Ed has an abstract system which does limit things somewhat. Generally speaking I don't want to feel like I'm standing still and shooting at an enemy until it dies, then moving on to the next one.

With a light concussion missile, it is nearly impossible to kill a group of tie fighters. It requires a near perfect hit (70 damage with a 7d10+2 weapon currently) to do such. The Aggro Negotiator has light concussion missiles not medium ones.

Usually though, the area effect may still do enough damage to push those fighters down the condition track. As I spoke to Cam about this, it seems hard to understand how a missile can have such a large blast radius.

Tractor beams are poorly balanced in game. They cost 10 emplacement points, the mechanic for their usage is very clunky and frankly they are not worth the hassle. I don't think any fighter mounts a tractor beam or similar system in the current setting.

They don't, and you're right. Although I think the ship design rules are crap. That's a criticism of the system.

I cannot disagree with the idea that we all should be clawing our way up the ranks of the alliance with surprising alacrity given some of the successes we have had in the field of honor. I will be more than happy to plot/work with Antares as to what steps to take in the future regarding their long term mutually beneficial goals. ^_~

Cool, I look forward to it. I don't want it to sound like I'm grabby. I want to eventually be Commander Antares with his squadron of ace pilot commandos. But getting to that point is part of the fun. We're at the point where I want to start building up the squadron. When we're all at higher level, the challenge and scale of our combat encounters will be much higher - I fully expect at that point you'll have your corvette, I will have my squadron, and others will have similarly built to their ambitions. We've gone from level 1 to 4, by level 7 is when we can get our prestige classes (for me, it'll be Ace Pilot), really before then (level 5 or 6) is when I want to be well on the way towards that goal of being a squad commander (which should be I dunno, level 12) - that is, having the 12 fighters, 12 pilots recruited, infrastructure and logistics in place, support personnel recruited, etc.

EDIT- I should add that meeting Rogue Squadron should be a superwowawesomefistpump kind of moment for Antares.

[Hotfoot]

Tuesday is likely not to work out well for me, as I am recovering from being really nastily sick again. In fact the week might be a wash if my body can't get its damn act together, but Wednesday is my best bet.

[Stofsk]

Tuesday is likely not to work out well for me, as I am recovering from being really nastily sick again. In fact the week might be a wash if my body can't get its damn act together, but Wednesday is my best bet.

Oh ok. I was going to post something along the lines of tommorow (tuesday night for you) not being the best for me because I might be going out during the day. But I hope you feel better at any rate.

[Stofsk]

Shit. It's 4:21 am where I am. I couldn't sleep all night and only now am I feeling drowsy enough to maybe nod off. I don't think I can get a good night's sleep and be on time. If I wind up sleeping in, I'm sorry, but I'll try for maybe noon my time. If I'm the only one missing just carry on without me, sorry guys. My sleep schedule has been a nightmare and I've had a lot on my mind. :sad:

[Hotfoot]

It may not matter, I'm still not feeling that great.