Dead Marine's father ordered to pay protesters' legal costs

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The Minx
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#1 Dead Marine's father ordered to pay protesters' legal costs

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(CNN) -- The father of a Marine whose funeral was picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church says an order to pay the protesters' legal costs in a civil claim is nothing less than a "slap in the face."

"By the court making this decision, they're not only telling me that they're taking their side, but I have to pay them money to do this to more soldiers and their families," said Albert Snyder, whose son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, was killed in action in Iraq in 2006.

Members of the fundamentalist church based in Topeka, Kansas, appeared outside Snyder's funeral in 2006 in Westminster, Maryland, carrying signs reading "You're going to hell," "God hates you" and "Thank God for dead soldiers."

Among the teachings of the church, which was founded in 1955 by pastor Fred Phelps, is the belief that God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events such as soldiers' deaths.

Margie Phelps, the daughter of Fred Phelps and the attorney representing the church in its appeals, also said the money that the church receives from Snyder will be used to finance demonstrations. But she also said that the order was a consequence of his decision to sue the church over the demonstration.

"Mr. Snyder and his attorneys have engaged the legal system; there are some rules to that legal engagement," said Phelps, a member of Westboro who says she has participated in more than 150 protests of military funerals.

"They wanted to shut down the picketing so now they're going to finance it," she said.

The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday ordered that Snyder pay more than $16,000 in costs requested by Westboro for copies of motions, briefs and appendices, according to court documents.

In a motion filed in October, Snyder's lawyer, who is representing him for free, asked the court to dismiss the bill of costs, or, alternatively, reduce the 50-cent fee per page or charge Snyder only for copies that were necessary to make their arguments on appeal.

"We objected based upon ability to pay and the fairness of the situation," Sean Summers said.

The mostly pro-forma ruling is the latest chapter in an ongoing legal saga that pits privacy rights of grieving families against the free speech rights of demonstrators, however disturbing and provocative their message.

Snyder's family sued the church and went to trial in 2007 alleging privacy invasion, intentional infliction of emotional distress and civil conspiracy. A jury awarded the family $2.9 million in compensatory damages plus $8 million in punitive damages, which were reduced to $5 million.

Westboro in 2008 appealed the case to the 4th District, which reversed the judgments a year later, siding with the church's claims that its First Amendment rights had been violated.

"The protest was confined to a public area under supervision and regulation of local law enforcement and did not disrupt the church service," the circuit court opinion said. "Although reasonable people may disagree about the appropriateness of the Phelps' protest, this conduct simply does not satisfy the heavy burden required for the tort of intentional infliction of emotional distress under Maryland law."

The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case to address issues of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services" as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased.

The justices will be asked to address how far states and private entities such as cemeteries and churches can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting.

Both Phelps and Snyder's attorney said they were surprised that the 4th District chose to weigh in on the issue of legal costs when they could have waited until after the Supreme Court hearing.

Phelps believes the ruling bodes well for her side.

"It is a good harbinger of the fact that the Supreme Court will remind this nation that you don't have mob rule. The fact that so many people hate these words does not mean you can silence or penalize them. That's supposed to be the great liberty that we congratulate ourselves on protecting in this nation. We strut all around the world forcing people to give all the liberties we supposedly have," she said.

Phelps anticipated that a Supreme Court ruling in the church's favor would be unpopular, but she said Westboro's members viewed the potential outcome in Biblical terms.

"When the Supreme Court unanimously upholds the 4th Circuit, it's going to put this country in a rage, and we will be expelled," she said. "But whenever it was time for an epic event in the Bible, the thing that happened right before is the prophets were removed from the land, and that's what's going to happen to us. ... We're going to sprint to the end of this race."

Snyder claims he is unable to pay any legal costs in the case and is attempting to raise funds on his son's site, http://www.matthewsnyder.org/. He is equally optimistic that he will prevail before the Supreme Court.

"The American people keep my spirits lifted a lot and give me hope. I think most of the country is on my side on this issue," he said. "Too many people have died to protect our rights and freedoms to have them degraded and spit upon like this church does."

Ugh, the Westboro Babtist Church. This is a new low.
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#2

Post by frigidmagi »

Oh hell no. You got to be kidding me.
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#3

Post by Dark Silver »

It is....and while it's a disgusting move on their part......

They have protected 1st Amendment Rights, so I can see where the Appealite(sp?) Court ruling came from - which makes it no less disgusting Phelps and his brood could goad the action in to occuring.

It's part of their Modus Operandi, picket and cause strife at a already sorrowful event...when the family sues, countersue and beat them in court (Phelps himself is a pretty handy lawyer) and use the winnings to fund more of the hatefilled protests they've been doing over the years..


Apparently Glenn Beck is going to pay the legal fees associated with the ruling, out of his own disgust for WBBC. What can I say, sometimes, even a slimey,wormy-bastard like Beck can show some heart.
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#4

Post by SirNitram »

Rodeo Clowns have to have some relationship with humans, otherwise they can't distract the bull.(Yes, Glenn Beck is a self-described rodeo clown.)
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#5

Post by LadyTevar »

Was it Glenn Beck, or was it O'Reilly? Because the comment in SDnet said O'Reilly
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#6

Post by Hotfoot »

On the one hand, I support the first amendment, and I support loser pays civil suits, with some restrictions. We have a sue-happy culture and frivolous lawsuits hurt the legal system as well as numerous professions.

That said, I just saw the Phelps family on youtube last night on a British talk show, and words cannot do these people justice.

What these people do is despicable, and I wish terrible fates on any adult member of that damn cult who doesn't have the presence of mind to leave screaming (there have been several family members who have left in disgust). However, they've made sure that everything they've ever done is by the letter of the law. Hell, most of the damn family are lawyers for the express purpose of protecting the church. It's like a small scale version of Scientology, minus the former CIA agents that would dig up dirt on the enemies of the church.

That said, picketing a funeral is damn low. They get around it by setting up at the nearest public place where they can freely assemble around the funeral, and frankly I don't think there's any real measure that can be done to effectively stop them without also stopping legitimate areas of free speech.

If we're very lucky, they'll fall apart after the first generation past the old man are gone.

At the very least, I hope they overturn the payment. Sadly there's little that can be done to hurt the Phelps legally.
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#7

Post by Dark Silver »

It may be O'Rielly, and I'm misremembering it for Beck
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#8

Post by The Minx »

Google reveals it was O'Reilly:

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Bill O'Reilly to Pay Court Costs of Fallen Marine's Father
By Chris Ariens on Mar 31, 2010 12:02 PM

Newsmax reports FNC's Bill O'Reilly will pay the legal fees for the father of a fallen U.S. Marine who sued members of the Westboro Baptist Church who picketed his son's funeral.

The church garners attention for its views by protesting high-profile funerals. On March 3, 2006, Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder died in a non-combat related vehicle accident in Al Anbar province in Iraq.

During the wake that was held after his son's funeral, family members turned on the television to view coverage of the massive procession involving over 1,500 persons. They saw the church members waving signs and protesting the funeral.

Last night on his show, O'Reilly said the mounting legal fees, are "an outrage."

"I will pay Mr. Snyder's obligation," said O'Reilly. "I am not going to let this injustice stand."

Way to go, O'Reilly.

Actually, this reminds me of the conclusion we came to elsewhere, that Bill O'Reilly is the marker for determining lunacy: if even he rails against something for being too reactionary, then it must be really out there.

Of course that's not that surprising a conclusion since this is the WBC we're talking about. But I've got to admit that paying the court costs like that was classy, much as I disagree with O'Reilly most of the time.
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#9

Post by Derek Thunder »

I don't think a successful case can be brought against this Church. Their speech, as odious as it is, does not constitute fighting words or yelling "fire," nor is there any specific protection for ceremonies to be held without protests - I don't think "peaceable assembly" is being violated by the WBC being there.

Perhaps the best strategy is to ignore them entirely - deprive them of the money made from these lawsuits and free press publicity and they'll wither and die on the vine.
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#10

Post by Hotfoot »

Ignoring them and turning the other cheek is the best option, but the problem is that it's a squeaky wheel syndrome.

And yes, there is virtually nothing to be done to stop them. They are within their rights, as repulsive as their words are, the same laws that protect the KKK, the ACLU, and every protest ever, protect them.

A long time ago, I read an article about the history of the family, and it's truly despicable. Fred Phelps, by all reliable accounts, is a batterer of women and children, and only focused his rage outwards to the world when his kids got old enough to fight back.

The entire family and church is basically built on abuse, now more emotional rather than physical, but just as damaging to the children in it. As horrible as the things they say are, imagine saying that to a child, a child that trusts you unconditionally. They are told to go against the family is to go against God, and if you do that, you not only burn in hell forever, but the family will disown you and leave you to your fate.

Frankly, I'm amazed the thing hasn't fallen to pieces yet, but the old man is still around, and he's terrorized everyone under him to do as he demands. As it stands, I hope it falls apart soon, because frankly this is one of the more disgusting cults in the world.
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