STGOD, Frigid's Revenge!

Cynical Cat · Post by **Cynical Cat** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:55 pm

Ben, even if frigid was allowing rules discussion those magic rules are horrible. You've tried to define it as a physical phenomena and that's not what's needed. It's game effects need to be precisely detailed and you've left it much of it vague and wide open. For a game the physics and metaphysics behind the magic are secondary and the practical effects are of primary importance. The system described allows huge ass pulls and that's unacceptable.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:34 pm

I have a system set up. It's not Ben's. Okay I am setting up a poll. Everyone who's interested should vote.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:37 pm

Cynical Cat wrote:Ben, even if frigid was allowing rules discussion those magic rules are horrible. You've tried to define it as a physical phenomena and that's not what's needed. It's game effects need to be precisely detailed and you've left it much of it vague and wide open. For a game the physics and metaphysics behind the magic are secondary and the practical effects are of primary importance. The system described allows huge ass pulls and that's unacceptable.

Well, he didnt want me to detail a magic system complete with metaphysics. I could have done that. Said suggestions were balance suggestions so you could not:

A: Instantly transport large numbers of men

B:Spell effects cannot be sustained from nothing, without taxing the wizard. If you want that fire to keep burning for a while, you will need some wood. Oh, and a technological effect would not be immune to magic, and vice versa. That wall of ice can in fact be destroyed by your Steam-Mechs flamethrower.

C:Wizards are limited by what they can draw per unit time, or from their own life energy. Basically to provide a way to balance them against technology. No apprentice hurling unfathomable power, and if a wizard does want to do that, it will take some time to gather the energy, which may have unintended consequences.

The rest deals with having a system such that people have to pick one. Investing in technology necessarily reduces what you can invest in training wizards etc.

That is what I was going for, and they were only suggestions.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:43 pm

Thank you Ben, but I meant it when I said no rules discussion. No offense meant.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:12 pm

No prob.

Derek Thunder · Post by **Derek Thunder** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:12 pm

Are gelatinous cubes too "high-magic" for a low-magic world?

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:59 pm

Derek Thunder wrote:Are gelatinous cubes too "high-magic" for a low-magic world?

Going out on a limb, horrible nightmare creatures still exist, so I would say they are fine. Frigid's call though, of course.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:10 am

Are gelatinous cubes too "high-magic" for a low-magic world?

They can exist but would have a different set up in a low magic world. In the high magic worlds of DnD, they're comic relief in alot ways, understandable and evem funny.

In Low Magictopia, they are horrid alien creatures, objects of fear and loathing. They would also be rare, the relics of some bygone age or the abandoned unfinished children of some Styigan god.

Derek Thunder · Post by **Derek Thunder** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:22 am

So... A militant collectivist society comprised of gelatinous cubes that shun both private property and salt would be out of the question?

I'm just trying to figure out what the boundaries are of societies available to players.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:24 am

Something that can physically communicate and possibly coexist with humans on a equal basis. It must be physical and mortal. Cubes are out due to the magical nature of their existence. Frog men are okay because as monstrous and horrorible as they are they are recogizable and can be communicated with.

Also I want tool users Derek.

Charon · Post by **Charon** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:07 pm

Derek Thunder wrote:So... A militant collectivist society comprised of gelatinous cubes that shun both private property and salt would be out of the question?

I'm just trying to figure out what the boundaries are of societies available to players.

7/10, would LOL again.

Charon · Post by **Charon** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:40 pm

So for my Monster Cavalry, a few options have been presented.

Bears, Wargs, Woolly Rhinos, and War Clydesdales.

Personally, I'm leaning towards War Clydesdales or Woolly Rhinos.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:45 pm

If you can get around the corrosion and absorption issues, I suppose you could try gelatinous cube cavalry...

Charon · Post by **Charon** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:46 pm

Also, before I forget again. Magi, you'd said something about mystical weapons before. Any more details on that or is it generally assumed that point heroes have some sort of awesome item?

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:19 pm

An initial OOB is up, mostly bare-bones stuff until I know exactly where my nation will be and who my neighbours are. I will also expand the fluff for the various troops later.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:36 am

How are we dealing with fortifications by chance?

I plan on having a sort of Hadrian's Wall on the other side of the river from the roman Hadrian's Wall, as well as a few castles protecting mountain passes, river crossings, walled cities etc.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:29 am

Fortifications within reason are free. Building the Great Wall of China will result in Exodus.

General Havoc · Post by **General Havoc** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:31 am

CT, you have units of "Battle mages" listed in your army order of battle. Is that sort of thing permissible? I thought we were in a fairly low magic setting.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:35 pm

Well, I needed a way to represent the difference between "organic" mages specified in the rules--particularly for higher magic nations-- and the ones who are more powerful who get called up during times of war to serve in detached groups (still cant do fireball, but magic use in combat for terrain modification, fear effects etc features heavily, and that needs to be represented somehow). I figured there SHOULD be a point cost to them.

There are not thousands of them, I just needed a way to represent them.

Charon · Post by **Charon** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:29 pm

At first I'd suggested they'd be Monster units, but since monsters can't be humanoid that wouldn't work, though personally I'd say to make an exception for a mage unit.

We'll see what Magi has to say I guess.

EDIT: Side note. Ben's Poisonous, wall climbing, amphibious, long jumpers count as only units of 1,000 rather than 2,000 much like my Ogres, right?

Norseman · Post by **Norseman** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:45 pm

I am simply having them be an inherent part of whatever units I raise, kinda, sorta, in the same way as they were in Conan. Direct combat applications are probably fairly rare, but being able to bring good winds or command rain at the right points would be a great advantage.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:21 pm

Okay, 1st off you cannot buy .8 of a unit. You buy 1.0 of a unit or you don't have it. If you can't afford it buy cheaper units or eat the costs. Yes, that's harsh, why are you surprised.

Combat Mages? Whoa, huh, No. I'll let people do something like Ac Nut unit, where he has a mummy magic user surrounded by non-magical troops, if you want to do that CT with your assault troops that's fine but no, not even Magic 6 means you can deploy units thousands strong of just wizards. Change it to be more like Ac Nut and I'll be okay. Otherwise? I hear swamps look great when I change all the water to blood.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:04 pm

frigidmagi wrote:Okay, 1st off you cannot buy .8 of a unit. You buy 1.0 of a unit or you don't have it. If you can't afford it buy cheaper units or eat the costs. Yes, that's harsh, why are you surprised.

Combat Mages? Whoa, huh, No. I'll let people do something like Ac Nut unit, where he has a mummy magic user surrounded by non-magical troops, if you want to do that CT with your assault troops that's fine but no, not even Magic 6 means you can deploy units thousands strong of just wizards. Change it to be more like Ac Nut and I'll be okay. Otherwise? I hear swamps look great when I change all the water to blood.

It was not an affording thing, it was a "unit not divisible by n" thing.

I will just detatch a fully heavy siege unit.

What Acnut did was basically what I had in mind. I wanted to attach a mage to each cohort, effectively. Giving them a body guard unit is just fine by me.

Comrade Tortoise · Post by **Comrade Tortoise** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:17 pm

OOB modified appropriately

Charon · Post by **Charon** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:15 pm

Alright. First draft is up. Need to specify a lot of different things, get into more detail in other places, and codify my notes into something readable to the average mind.

LibriumArcana.Games

STGOD, Frigid's Revenge!

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