Mass Effect 3

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#51 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by JimmyTheCannon »

Personally, I loved the game, although the ending did make me go "Wha? Really? Those are my options? ...well, crap."

I loved the way every decision you made in previous games was touched on somehow - in quests, in War Assets, even just in emails.
Spoiler: show
I swear, I was all "Noooo!" when it looked like Grunt died saving you from the Reaper-Rachni. Never been so relieved to see a Krogan.
The memorial on the crew deck was a nice touch, particularly the way it was continually updated. The gun from the "From Ashes" DLC was insanely overpowered, particularly with an expanded clip mod slotted in, but that's not really a complaint. :biggrin:

It was interesting to see how DLC affected things. I eventually got all the ME2 DLC, but some of it was after I finished the game and I never went back to play it.
Spoiler: show
For example, I never did the Kasumi DLC, and as a result I couldn't save the Hanar homeworld.
I don't recall what my exact readiness rating was at the end of the game, but apparently it wasn't quite high enough for the best ending, as
Spoiler: show
my Shepard never woke up.
Spoiler: show
I felt absolutely horrible about choosing Destroy, really, because it made Legion's sacrifice to upgrade the rest of the Geth ultimately meaningless. Sure, it helped you get to that point, but hey, they're all gone! And poor Joker... just when he and EDI were getting things figured out, she's gone. And regarding the Control ending destroying the ME relays - no matter what you choose, the relays are destroyed. So that's going to happen anyway.
With that said... I will probably play through it again to see how I can do things differently.
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#52 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by rhoenix »

I finished the game last night. I knew mostly what was coming, but actually having it happen... another thing entirely.
Spoiler: show
The trilogy was all about forging your own path through the galaxy, righting wrongs, or wronging rights as you saw fit. The ending, about making you pick from three bad choices and making sure not only your PC dies, but completely negating all the hard work you put in over the three games.

You could cure the krogan Genophage to gain their support, you could forge peace between the Quarians and the Geth, you could help other species with their defenses - but in the end, none of that work matters. All it changes are some of the scenes along the way, not the ending.
Yeah. All I will say is that for my forum ME game, ME3 didn't end that way.
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#53 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Hotfoot »

Well, it looks like some questions are going to be answered....

Bioware to release free DLC "expanding" the ending.

Looks like Bioware hasn't completely lost their damn minds yet.
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#54 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by JimmyTheCannon »

Yeah, I heard about that.

We shall see.

EDIT: Apparently they've clarified what they're doing... it won't be a new or alternate ending, but rather, an "extended" ending that takes into account the decisions you made. Y'know, like the rest of the trilogy did. Also, it will be coming out this summer, and it will be free.
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#55 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by rhoenix »

ME3 Ending Extended Cut wrote:An official press release went out today announcing how we are re-prioritizing the Mass Effect 3 post release content schedule to provide a more fleshed out experience for our fans. For many of you the “Extended Cut” will help answer some questions and give closure to this chapter of the Mass Effect story. Oh and it’s at no cost to you – the fan.

Here is a mini FAQ to help you understand what the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut is and isn’t:

What can fans expect from the Extended Cut DLC?
For fans who want more closure in Mass Effect 3, the DLC will offer extended scenes that provide additional context and deeper insight to the conclusion of Commander Shepard’s journey.

Are there going to be more/different endings or ending DLCs in the future?
No. BioWare strongly believes in the team’s artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned.

What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC?
BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences. The goal of these new scenes is to provide additional clarity and closure to Mass Effect 3.

When will the Extended Cut DLC be available?
Currently the Extended Cut DLC is planned for this summer, no specific date has been announced at this point.

Why are you releasing the Extended Cut DLC?
Though we remain committed and are proud of the artistic choices we made in the main game, we are aware that there are some fans who would like more closure to Mass Effect 3. The goal of the DLC is not to provide a new ending to the game, rather to offer fans additional context and answers to the end of Commander Shepard’s story.

Will there be more Mass Effect 3 DLC?
More content is being planned and we will release information at a later date.

So there you have it. Are we proud of the game we made and the team that made it? Hell yes. Are we going to change the ending of the game? No. Do we appreciate the passion and listen to the feedback delivered to us by our fans? Very much so and we are responding.
*shrug*

I'll look at it if it comes out, but I'm already pretty much over the Mass Effect games.
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#56 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by General Havoc »

rhoenix wrote:*shrug*

I'll look at it if it comes out, but I'm already pretty much over the Mass Effect games.
Well obviously you still care enough about them to find and post press releases concerning the DLC in question...

I will be checking out this DLC, because Mass Effect 3 was one of the best games I've ever played, and I'd like to see how it really ends.
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#57 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by rhoenix »

That's fair - I just got so mad about the ending that I'm not even going to think about it for a while - until seeing that today brought a fresh twinge of anger.

I'll probably watch the new "ending" if someone posts it on youtube, but at this point, I'd consider myself very safely jaded.
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#58 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Stofsk »

I am pretty much done with bioware. If they don't fix the endings then I won't buy another product of theirs, ever. Even if they do fix the endings they're on notice.

Considering the extended cut is only meant to 'clarify' stuff, I don't hold out hope the new ending will be appreciably different, but I guess we'll wait and see.
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#59 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Hotfoot »

In some other news, they have officially announced the new Multiplayer DLC, which is also free.

[youtube][/youtube]

Yes Virginia, that's a Krogan Vanguard.

Two maps, about a half dozen or so new classes and weapons, hitting in four days.

I can't see how any of this is relevant to anyone here. It's not like any of us play co-op.

Also, Rhoenix, the reason you don't have your packs from the last operation is that they found out people were exploiting the packs to get multiples of them and suspended the packs until next week to prevent the abuse. So you'll get them in time for the new DLC.
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#60 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by JimmyTheCannon »

Hmm. I may have to actually try the co-up at some point. And that harpoon gun looks sweet.
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#61 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by rhoenix »

Huh. Batarian Soldier, Batarian Sentinel, Geth Engineer, Geth Infiltrator, an Asari Justicar Adept (this is new), and Krogan Vanguard. And some new weapons.

Eh, I could check that out. And yeah, I'll wait until this weekend for new stuff.
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#62 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Charon »

Alright. I've finished the game.

Still chewing on the ending. Which in and of itself says a lot. The other two endings I was plainly happy about, good or ill. This one has me pondering a bit more on it, which is both good and bad.

I definitely don't have the vitriol for it that some have had, and I can clearly see the Ancient Greek Storytelling written on the walls. Which has its good points and its bad points. I dunno. I'm just gonna have to consider this more.

(In other news, the Batarian Soldier's Rocket Knife Fist is awesome.)
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#63 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Hotfoot »

Well, here we go...
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#64 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Hotfoot »

Well I damn well bet I'm not the only person who's going to be reloading a save after one run of this thing.
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#65 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by rhoenix »

Hotfoot wrote:Well I damn well bet I'm not the only person who's going to be reloading a save after one run of this thing.
Nope. But right now, I'm really not enthusiastic about it. Here's why:
Last edited by rhoenix on Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#66 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Hotfoot »

Oh yes, spoilers, brilliant. :evil:
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#67 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by rhoenix »

Hotfoot wrote:Oh yes, spoilers, brilliant. :evil:
There - added spoiler tags.
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#68 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Stofsk »

Spoiler: show
Refusal ending with some unseen future civilisation unearthing Liara's time capsule was amazing. If only they had included that originally...
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#69 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by General Havoc »

Well I finished my replay, saw my chosen ending, and then looked the others up online to see what I had missed. And I know there's gonna be no end of differing opinions on how this thing went down, and what people's reaction to it will be, but my opinion can be summed up in three words:

They fixed it.
Spoiler: show
No, it's not perfect, and no it's not as good as an entirely new ending replacing everything about the last one, but it's actually surprisingly good. The new information we get from the Star Child turns him from "blatant deus ex machina" into something I can actually understand the purpose and presence of. The impact and point of the three (four really) choices we get is spelled out much more clearly, allowing a reasonable decision to be made. And best of all, the actual endings we receive after making these choices are fleshed out very well, to the point where I have to say, I actually liked them.
If the rest of ME3 was a 9/10, and the original ending a 3/10 (which I believe they were), this new ending doesn't completely match the rest of the game, but is, in my view, a solid 7 or 7.5/10. I know that it isn't irrelevant that Bioware only gave us the real ending six months later, but they did so for free, in what could not have been a minor undertaking, and I know few companies who would go through such an effort six months after their game shipped. It doesn't negate entirely the issues with the previous version of the ending, but, given the overall strength of Mass Effect 3, I'm prepared to say that they fixed their damned game.

Other people's mileage will vary of course, but I'm happy with what I received, significantly moreso than I expected to be.
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#70 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Stofsk »

I don't think this really fixes things all that much. For some, yeah it has, but for others, this is too little and too late. If you didn't like the Starchild before, you'll like him even less. One good thing though, is the extra information does eliminate one persistent criticism of the original endings, in how they seemed to imply the relays were destroyed and how come Normandy was not in orbit of earth doing its part in the fight.

To be honest, from everything I have read and seen of the game, the ending isn't the only problem and there are problems with the start as well. Even the ending itself is a bit more than 'the last ten minutes' which many people seem to think (albeit the last ten minutes were especially egregious). I think this dlc is a bone thrown to the fanbase but I'm not really keen to chew on it, and I don't blame anyone else who isn't.
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#71 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by General Havoc »

I've heard complaints about the beginning of the game, though personally I have no idea where it comes from, and while it's true that the issues with the ending went beyond the last ten minutes, the last ten minutes were the crux of the matter.

I disliked the starchild before and the new information, while I still disliked him, made me at least accept that he was an element that made sense as opposed to something pulled out of the writers' asses. I felt that the explanations at least got the point across that the writers were trying for. It wasn't perfect, but it was a serious step up for the game. And while I am certainly in agreement that plenty of people are just done with ME3 being as the game is now six months old, this is a step that no other company I know of has ever done, issuing an expansion to their game's ending six months down the line, for free.

Some people may not like it and some may not care, but the ones who are weighing in to say "I don't care" are definitionally lying, and I suspect a lot who say they dislike it are looking for reasons not to. I suspect, and it is only suspicion, that if this ending had been the original one the game shipped with, nobody would say a word. The fact that it wasn't is certainly relevant, but still.
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#72 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Stofsk »

Full disclosure: No, I haven't played the game, but I saw the original endings on youtube, and a lot of other videos analysing the intro and the endings. AngryJoe's reviews of both the game and the ending in particular were illuminating, both in how the game proper was well-received by him and how the ending was a massive pile of fail. One video series in particular, if you're inclined to spend a couple of hours watching them, is Mass Effect 3 Bookends of Destruction, which give literary criticism and plot analysis of the game's intro and ending. (he also did a lot of other videos that cover the previous two games extensively; I watched them all and agree with his assessment of both the previous games too, having played them)

The word-of-mouth I've received more or less confirms what the above videos go into. A friend of mine, who liked ME3 btw except for the ending, was the one who recommended me the Bookends video. A lot of the background production notes also showed that Mac Walters was the main writer for the intro, ending, and dream sequences, and a lot of talk I've heard from people is these are the game's most consistent examples of weak writing. What this amounts to is I'm glad my preorder went missing in the mail and I got a refund. I don't want to say I'm never going to ever play this game because it sucks and biofail hurhurhur etc etc, but I will definitely wait for it to hit the bargain bin price before considering it.

As far as your suspicions go, I'm not sure I agree with you - the Starchild is still around and by far, he's the biggest source of irate criticism. BUT, having said that, like I said above the inclusion of
Spoiler: show
the refusal ending
may have gone a long way towards mitigating the controversy. I don't know by how much, and I suspect there would still have been a controversy, but that ending itself should have always been part of the game (just like how ME2 had the 'Shepard dies for real' ending, even if it wouldn't be counted in a ME3 save import) and the exclusion of it at launch is bewildering.
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#73 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by Charon »

Having just played through it (and watching the other videos on YouTube, I've got to agree with Havoc. They fixed it.
Spoiler: show
But, as Havoc said. It's not perfect. The dialogue and the explanations are a bit on the clunky side, but thinking about it, the fact that the explanations were not really in the first version is rather odd when every other time in the game you are given plenty of background info, even when you don't need it. Some people have apparently gotten angry about the Starchild's answer of "You wouldn't know them and there isn't enough time" when you ask who built him. But that makes sense to me. The Reapers have been doing this for billions of years, the creators have been dead for so long that there isn't any reference for them any more.

As for the Star Child himself... I hate him less. He feels more like an actual thing than a literal deus ex machina that someone pulled out of their ass when they ran out of ideas.

My main problem with the first edition endings had been that they did not make sense and you didn't know what the hell was going on, and the extended endings did a very good job of shoring that up. There is some sense in what the hell is going on and you get to see what the results of your choices are in the long run, not "and then shit blew up in different colors, the end". There are still some problems, but those would have been difficult to fix without going in and completely redoing the ending entirely.

Finally, I really want to know what the fuck is up with that bonus ending of what looks like Shepard taking a breath that is still there.
All in all, I am content. Happy? No. But this at least fixed the glaring issues of the First Edition ending. I will likely still not be buying Dragon Age 3 unless I hear great reviews though.
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#74 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by JimmyTheCannon »

So, I just played through all the endings, and
Spoiler: show
personally, I like what they did with it. We actually know what happens now and can see a clear difference between the endings. The Refusal ending is a nice addition, too - particularly the way I accidentally triggered it (shooting at the Starchild). Interestingly, I got the "Shepard is still alive" scene at the end of the Destroy ending, even though my readiness score was below 4k. That wasn't there before.

All in all, I think Bioware did a great job with this, particularly considering that they didn't HAVE to do it at all.
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#75 Re: Mass Effect 3

Post by General Havoc »

Dragon Age 3 to me is a different ball of wax, and my reluctance to buy it is not based on Mass Effect in any way, but rather on the disastrous ending of DA2, an ending that was, by any standards, much worse than ME3's original ending, attached to a game that was nowhere near as good, and which was never rectified in any way (though in fairness, that's because the problem there is the entire last third or so of the game).

That said, I found that this ending made the Star Child significantly less annoying to me.
Spoiler: show
Basically, he goes from being a complete non-sequiter, which makes no sense, to an embodiment of the collective consciousness of the Reapers, which makes a lot more sense. We already know that the Reapers have a semi-collective thing going on, and that they are effectively AIs. We also already know that the Reapers are doing this for reasons other than simply "LOLEVUL". That you should get up to the Catalyst and talk to what is, effectively, the master Reaper-AI makes a degree of sense.

As to the "You wouldn't know them and there isn't enough time" bit, I actually felt that was properly in keeping with the story as a whole. There's a legitimately interesting moment where the Star Child mentions that his "creators" were made into the first Reaper, after he (the AI) came up with the Reaper "solution", and moreover that they "did not approve". This hints strongly at the notion that the Reapers were basically a Geth-like AI that got out of control and decided to enact some horrible cyclical apocalypse to rectify a "problem" that only they were able to see (and perhaps that only they would define as an absolute). I feel this fits much better with what we already know of the Reapers and with the overall themes of Mass Effect. Reapers are basically Geth who never managed to grow beyond their original mechanically-induced obsessions, and did not "ascend" as the Geth did (at least if you reconciled the Geth and Quarians). It also explains why the Star Child is obsessed with this notion of Organic/Synthetic duality.
And Stofsk, I'm not gonna wax thunderous here, but I do want to point out that there's a significant difference in impact and tone/feel between watching the endings on Youtube and playing through the endgame to get to them. When viewed in the context of the decisions you've made and the battles you've fought, I feel that these endings make a lot more sense than when viewed on their own. Ironically, the one ending I wasn't happy with was precisely the one you cited,
Spoiler: show
what I call the "Fuck You" ending,
as I felt more could have been done with that concept if they felt like including it (and besides, I would assuredly not have known about it if someone hadn't told me before I got there). I have noticed that the reactions from people whom I know to have played the endings are almost universally more positive than the reactions from people I know to have simply looked them up. That's the ultimate in selection biases, of course, but still.

Basically, I agree almost point for point with Angry Joe's analysis of the new ending. It's not perfect, nor is this the way that, ideally, the Mass Effect series should have ended. Had we all received this ending back in January, it would have been a much better situation. Moreover there are things with this ending I find unsatisfying. But am I happy? Overall, yes, I am.

Like Charon, I will not be buying DA3 sight unseen. But should another Mass Effect game come down the pipe, the production of this ending has dramatically increased my chances of buying it, as I know, if nothing else, that Bioware cared enough to try and satisfy me with this game, at great cost to themselves. Whether they were 100% successful or not, that's a step no other company I know of would dare to take, and I tip my hat to them for taking it.
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