Blood Bowl!

[Hotfoot]

So, I'm currently in a Blood Bowl league online, and my team, Da Orkland Raiduz, have been doing okay (1-1-1), but it occurs to me that we could have a similar league here, with 300% more football puns, and 400% more savage beatings. The games take about an hour to play on average, and there's a wide selection of teams to play as. It's currently $7.50 on steam right now for the Chaos Edition, which is the most recent version of the game (and sadly, you need the most recent edition to play, but if you own a previous edition, you get money off the latest versions).

Since Necromunda isn't getting released anytime soon as a PC game, this is the closest I'll get to it short of something gloriously unexpected coming from the new XCOM expansion.

Plus, the potential for hilarious livestreams with both coaches taunting each other over skype is wonderfully high. For an example of the one-sided commentary I gave for one such game, check this out.

So what say you gents?

[Josh]

I've got the game and I say aye!

However, my scheduling may be wonky. Biz is starting to pick up and all. We'll just have to see how that works out.

[B4UTRUST]

I'd be game for it though having never played the game(Read the novels though, that counts right? You can totally learn football from fantasy novels!)I'm sure that my initial showing will be somewhere between dreadful, embarrassing and steam banning me from playing the game again on the grounds that it's best for everyone, everywhere, if I don't.

But hey, it's football. How hard can it be? (Yes, this is said in jest)

[Josh]

The rule of Blood Bowl:

Don't get attached to any player. Ever. They will die, the minute you get sentimental or the moment they actually get useful. Especially if you get a nice stat boost the week before and are looking forward to unleashing your double-AG-boosted receiver or your ass-kicking strengthed-up lineman.

Your minotaur? He's going to get waxed trying to mash a goblin. IT FUCKING HAPPENS.

Other than that, have fun. It's a great, great game with friends.

An overview of the teams:

Amazons: Obnoxious to play against, obnoxious to play as. Fragile, but with Dodge and Block skills readily available (the Blodge combo you'll learn to love and live by.) Running team, they have a thrower and receivers but they really work best caging and moving down the field.

Chaos: One of the top tier teams, but better for experienced players. You will absolutely suck when you start. No skills, no real bonuses, just some strong linemen and beastmen who can't catch or pass or do anything. However, they all have access to mutations. Mutations rock. Soon enough you'll be rolling with two-headed, clawed monstrosities that murder the living shit out of your opponents. For sheer murderousness, a clawed-up Chaos team is the way to roll. They're not as stout as the Orks, but they are one of the few teams that can scare the greenies when properly kitted out.

Dark Elves: Dancing sissies, these are the running Elves vs. the throwing Elves(all the other elfy teams.) Dodge a lot, can do some damage, splat real easy when you hit them.

Dwarves: The most boring, stupid team. If you want to grind out a slow win, this is your team. If you want to be hated by everyone else in your league for having a boring, slow-ass piece of shit, this is your team. Take a tank, put it in a suit of armor, then put a helmet on it, and that's a dwarf. Where they really get fucked is when they have to score, such as being down at the end of the game.

Elves: Three variants here- the High Elves, the Wood Elves, and the Elf Elves. They're all some variation of high-speed fuck you passing. They can score in no time flat through what is known as Elfy Bullshit. Wood Elves get a Treant, which is kind of handy when it doesn't get rooted in place. Also they're the fastest. All Elves go splat very quickly when you hit them, only rivaled by the Skaven for fragility.

Goblins: The anti-Dwarves. Goblins are fucking hilarious, great fun, but you won't win many games. With a mortality rate only matched by that of the Halfings, Goblins are the gimmick team that you can play just for the sheer bloody-minded insanity of it. Also, they have trolls that can throw the goblins across the field for quick touchdowns. Assuming the troll doesn't botch his roll and eat the goblin first.

Halfings: The team for the professional masochist. None of the charm of Goblins (no chainsaws or anything cool), just two treants and nine expendable little dudes. You'll be lucky to finish a match with anything over half your roster. If you do win, it's an awesome event that you could brag about forever.

Humans: the stock standard. Humans can run or pass, though the passing game is shaky until you skill up some. Not great at anything, not terribly vulnerable either. Very flexible.

Khemri: Tomb kings. Big, slow, fucking unkillable* assholes. Maybe slightly more fun than Dwarves, but only for the fact that they have more variety of characters.

*They can regenerate injuries and have high armor. Nasty, nasty.

Lizardmen: the ultimate running team. They have big nasty fighting Lizardmen, who can't handle the ball for shit but can beat the shit out of most other team's stock starters (excepting the Orks or Khemri), and little greased lightning Skinks that can dodge everything and take the slightest seam before breaking loose with a crazy touchdown. Lizardmen games revolve around one side trying to smash all the skinks and the other side protecting them long enough to break loose and score.

Necromantic: Fun team. You have two big Frankenstein's monster type of guys, a bunch of disposable zombies, some specials, and fucking WEREWOLVES. Werewolves are great on offense and defense, excellent blitzers and almost as good at running as the skinks. Werewolves rock. You only get two, though.

Norse: Glass cannons. Norse teams can beat the shit out of any other team when they get the first shot in, but when they start getting hit back they start splatting. Another one recommended for advanced players.

Nurgle: Kind of dull. Fairly stout, they get mutations like their Chaos brethren, but they're slow as mud. They do get massive props for being tough to pass on due to their inherent abilities, making them pretty much kryptonite for elf teams.

Ogres: Remember the Lizardmen? Well, the Ogres turn that up a bit. The snotlings are slower than the skinks, but can be thrown by the ogres. The ogres can pound anybody's starting line (including the orks) but have to roll every turn when you try to use them. If they botch the roll, they stand there and be all stupid. Having a smarter teammate standing by them helps, but they will inevitably botch when you need them most. Fun, but don't expect to win often.

Orks: Best all around team for newbies. Some passing options, but primarily a running team. A properly-kitted ork team can go head to head with just about anybody but the ogres or Khemri (and can handle them with smart tactics and, well, ogres are dumb.) Durable, forgiving, not fast but not snails either. Plus plenty of fun.

Skaven: Skaven have various characters, but there are only two that really matter- throwers, and gutter runners. Gutter runners are the fastest motherfuckers in the game, and with a stat boost and a bit of luck can score a touchdown on an opening drive by just running straight for the goal (and getting a bit lucky.) Thrower throws to gutter runner. Gutter runner runs for touchdown. Lather, rinse, repeat. Expect lots of shootouts with these guys, and also expect to lose lots of players because they're even more fragile than the elves. Use your linerats as cannon fodder to protect your precious Gutter runners.

Undead: Like kind of a more boring version of the necromantic. No werewolves, a bit more punchy. Never really cared for them.

Vampires: Gimmick team deluxe. You have one or two or maaaaybe three vampires on the field at any given time, who are strong and badass and slippery. Then you have thralls, which are fragile, slow, and serve as the walking bloodbanks for vampires. Every vampire has to roll at the start of their action, and one in six means they have blood lust. If they don't end their turn next to a thrall to feed on them, the vampire will freak out and run off the field to feed on the fans. Feeding on a thrall may do anything from knock the thrall down to a KO to a light injury that takes them completely out of the game. Another team for experienced players looking for a fun challenge.


Remember when you're starting a team, rerolls are more valuable than players- your opening roster is going to suck for most teams, you'll be hiring new players to replace casualties as you go. But those half-price rerolls you get during setup will be crucial during your painful early going, when your team has no skills and fumbles half the time just trying to pick up the ball.

Finally, remember that this is not a game to take seriously. Because your kewl dudes will get killed. Stupid, stupid bounces of the ball will fuck you. You'll push a guy one extra square to try to get a touchdown at the end of the half and he will fumble and fall and break his leg and miss several games. Embrace the stupid, embrace the random, get out there and kill shit.

Also, the weakest point of the game is the commentary. Once you've played a game with or against every team, you will start getting very sick of the same few stock anecdotes from the broadcasters. Some of the stories might be slightly amusing at first, but the fifteenth time you hear the ogre broadcaster stomp out in a hissy fit because the vampire broadcaster insulted the ogre team... you'll be ready to kill the volume and play some ABBA or some shit.

[Josh]

http://bbtactics.com/

Most of this applies, excepting the boardgame teams that didn't make the cut for the computer game. The computer game essentially straight-ported the rules.

[LadyTevar]

I will point out that while the Dark Elves are squishy when hit, first you have to hit them. Next, point, you forgot that Dark Elves get Banshees. A good roll and your opponent's blockers have their ears bleeding. I scored a lot of points, and managed to rise to 3rd rank in my league. Damn Orks were the top two.

[Josh]

Unfortunately the Cyanide version doesn't have the banshees.

The dark elves are squirmy fucks and very nasty, though.

While the gameplay isn't like the opening cutscenes, they do capture the spirit of the game fairly well.

[youtube][/youtube]

The final clip shows the exact proper answer for elfy bullshit. What it doesn't show is how the fucking elf receiver dances away at the last second and then dodges two more guys to score a touchdown, because elves.

Also, don't get both games, get the Chaos edition. It's a full game with all content from Legendary plus three more races.

[Josh]

In fact, I'm behind the times. I thought I had Chaos, but I have Legendary. Chaos has Chaos Dwarves, Underworld, and Khornates.

I'll have to pick that up in the next week or two.

E: Ah, I can get it for eight bucks because I own Legendary. Purchased!

Now I'll have to try out these new teams!

[Josh]

Okay, Khornate Daemons are interesting. Reasonably fast bashy team, the anti-Nurglites basically. Lots of frenzy, not particularly strong.

[B4UTRUST]

I tried a game as goblins. My troll ate my goblin with the ball. Which wasn't nearly as fun as it sounded. Then those damned humans just kept knocking me down and stampeding over me. Over. And over. And over. Though the pogo sticks and chainsaws was amusing.

[Josh]

You're going to suck starting out, especially with goblins. The real fun with goblins are the secret weapons. Since you'll usually get bonus cash at the start of each match, buy ref bribes that will let you keep your chainsaw guy and lunatic on the field.

Somebody did a Venn Diagram that was fun and winning. Dwarves occupied the winning side mostly, and goblins occupied the fun side.

What you're setting out to do as a goblin team is to hurt the other team. So you use your secret weapons, you dogpile stomp people when they're down, that sort of thing.

They may not be the best team for a newb just because you're going to lose a lot no matter what you do.

There's a certain learning curve to Blood Bowl because it's such a bloody and somewhat random game. (Though not as random as some people bitch about- strategy does maximize your lucky bounces.)

E: Unfortunately my headset is at the office, or else I'd volunteer to do coaching matches where I could give y'all an idea of how the game works and some inside tricks.

[B4UTRUST]

So far I tried playing through story mode. The dwarves got stomped by the orcs. The goblins got stomped by everyone. And the halflings? It wasn't pretty. Not at all.

[Josh]

It's never pretty with the halflings. I love smashing their teams.

[B4UTRUST]

Well, I managed to get to the elves in story mode. So my treeman roots himself first turn. The kickoff results in the 'fans' running loose on the field leaving me with one elf standing. Who picks up the ball, fumbles it wide open and its turned over. The other team runs over my fallen team, grabs the ball and scores a TD. The next kickoff happens. And a fan throws a rock at my team, killing my QB before the kick even happens. My team looses possession, gets smacked around and gets scored on again. Third kickoff and the computer finally decides to be halfway merciful and says 'oh, you get great blood bowl weather' which as far as I can tell does jack and/or shit. I retrieve the ball, throw it to someone who should be able to catch without any problems. And oh look, the wide open receiver 5 feet away from me fumbles the ball. Then trips and breaks their own neck, I think. Because they're out of the game for some reason. Which is just as well, because they can't catch worth a damn at five feet apparently so I'm pretty sure death is a plus for them at this point.

Okay, so we're scored on. Again. And get the ball kicked to us. Again. Oh look, I managed to pick up a prone ball laying on the ground without killing myself. I'm pretty sure that now makes this person my MVP. Because they even managed to throw the ball and someone caught it. Woo. Up until they turn around and try to run up field. At which point they take two steps and are knocked down again. The other team gets the ball and managed to dance circles around me. Untouchable. My elves? They trip over blades of grass on the field. The other elves? Somersaults, back flips and ballet moves up and down the field.

While I'm generally not one to accuse a game of cheating because they're only as sadistic as they're programmed to be, I'm getting pretty much fed up with not being able to accomplish anything in this game. The computer seems to complete everything they try to do without failure and I can't seem to get a dice roll to actually go my way to save my life. Or my team's life rather.

[Josh]

You've had a very shit run of luck, honestly. The game is brutally dependent on random effects, and sometimes you get these spells where everything goes wrong.

Or maybe it's story mode. I couldn't even get the goblin tossing to work and gave up from there.

[B4UTRUST]

Well, I figured since the tutorial was absolute shit I'd try the story mode to see if there's more of a learn as you go thing going on. Pro tip: There isn't.

And yeah, I can accept shit luck. It happens. But damn this is weighted die levels of bad rolling

[Josh]

I play AI a lot in regular mode (none of the special feature shit, go with classic) and while bad breaks happen, they happen to both teams. A lot of your strategy lays in making sure you position your people properly for whatever funky shit the dice will throw at you, good or bad.

[Hotfoot]

In fact, I'm behind the times. I thought I had Chaos, but I have Legendary. Chaos has Chaos Dwarves, Underworld, and Khornates.

I'll have to pick that up in the next week or two.

E: Ah, I can get it for eight bucks because I own Legendary. Purchased!

Now I'll have to try out these new teams!

Or, you know, $7.50 on Steam, and possibly less if you owned previous versions. Like I said in the first post.

As far as strategy goes, here are some points I learned early on that helped me immensely.

1. Once a player has been moved, that's it, you can't go back and undo the move. This ties into the next bit, which is:

2. Turnovers suck, and they happen any time you lose control of the ball or have a player go down on your turn. Saving high risk maneuvers for later in the turn is vital, because if you don't have the rest of your team in position, you can end up both giving up the ball and letting the other guy take advantage of poor positioning on your part because you didn't finish setting up your play.

3. You only get one "blitz" maneuver per turn, generally speaking. A blitz is a move then a block. If you're looking to sack someone, prioritize the blitz for that person. Otherwise, get people into position to assist with the blitz, but don't block with anyone who's not adjacent, or you will lose your blitz and your play will end in tears.

4. Attacks of Opportunity. Bite me, it's what they're called now. Think D&D for how to employ these and you won't be far off. Moving through someone's threatened space (save moving into it once) threatens an Attack of Opportunity. Use this to set up defensive lines that can set up turnovers for the enemy.


These are really the cornerstones of play for me. There are more, but this is the very basics from a guy who's never played the game before this month.

[Josh]

Or, you know, $7.50 on Steam, and possibly less if you owned previous versions. Like I said in the first post.

There were lots of words in your post and I missed that part. Like, a paragraph and other sentences and stuff.

As far as strategy goes, here are some points I learned early on that helped me immensely.

1. Once a player has been moved, that's it, you can't go back and undo the move. This ties into the next bit, which is:

2. Turnovers suck, and they happen any time you lose control of the ball or have a player go down on your turn. Saving high risk maneuvers for later in the turn is vital, because if you don't have the rest of your team in position, you can end up both giving up the ball and letting the other guy take advantage of poor positioning on your part because you didn't finish setting up your play.

Cannot be emphasized enough. Positioning is everything. Ideally before you start actually doing stuff that requires rolls, have everyone on their feet and where they need to be. Obviously you're going to have to gamble every turn, but that's what I was talking about with regards to the strategy laying in maximizing the prospects of good things and containing bad things.

3. You only get one "blitz" maneuver per turn, generally speaking. A blitz is a move then a block. If you're looking to sack someone, prioritize the blitz for that person. Otherwise, get people into position to assist with the blitz, but don't block with anyone who's not adjacent, or you will lose your blitz and your play will end in tears.

Yup. Your blitz usually is one of your last moves in a turn, and you only keep other moves in reserve if you're anticipating knocking the ball loose and pursuing it.

4. Attacks of Opportunity. Bite me, it's what they're called now. Think D&D for how to employ these and you won't be far off. Moving through someone's threatened space (save moving into it once) threatens an Attack of Opportunity. Use this to set up defensive lines that can set up turnovers for the enemy.

Yup. Remember, each player creates a zone of control around them. The trick here is finding the proper balance between mass and coverage area- you can lock down a big chunk of turf with just two guys, but on the other hand one of them will get ganged up and and mashed, too. Also, Dodge is a key for getting through these, as well as Leap. (Though Leap is high-risk/high reward, as Scottie has learned.)

Position, position, position, it's all about position. I can't give you the one-size-fits-all on it, because every team plays it different. With the Orks, for example, you're all up in their faces as much as possible. You want to mark enemy players (put them in contact with your players, making them have to either block you out or risk dodging away) as often as possible in most cases. On the other hand, with the elves you generally try to keep as much free space as possible, attacking very strategically on defense so you can dogpile one corner of a cage and break in to get the ballcarrier.

Ask me about a particular team and I can give you more insight into their strategy, probably. I've played most of them at some point or another.

[LadyTevar]

Since I've not played the computer game, I'll just say that the best things were using your extra cash to buy Tricks. Spells, Bribes, Distracting Cheerleaders, Roits, whatever you can get to make the other team lose players or offense works.

For your own team? DOCTORS.

[frigidmagi]

Wait I can buy a riot?

Holy crap.

[B4UTRUST]

You can buy wizards who cast fireballs down on your enemies. You can buy the refs to ignore the fact that your guy is running around the field with a chainsaw cutting up people indiscriminately. You can buy more coaches and cheerleaders and beer. There's lots of things you can buy. Assuming you have money to do so, of course.

[Josh]

Cheerleaders and assistant coaches are pretty much a waste of money. For your own team, you buy rerolls and apothecaries. For game-time, you buy rerolls, extra apothecaries, and wizards to cast spells.

I don't know if they made the rulesets modular for the advanced mode in this version, haven't tested that yet. In the Dark Elf/Legendary editions there were too many junk rules that bogged the game down, so the potions and stuff didn't really make it worth it.

Also, the real-time mode was an atrocity. Funny story- Cyanide originally set out to make a derivative Blood Bowl-style game that was strictly realtime, but apparently GW got wind and threatened to shut them down. So they converted it to a proper Blood Bowl game with full license, and made it with a TBS mode. Everyone that I've ever talked to much prefers the TBS version.

I think I'll be free Tuesday night if somebody wants to have a go for some practice games.

[Hotfoot]

Never heard that story, but if it's so, then it's doubly funny because of all the shit GW gave Relic over Dawn of War and every other Fantasy/40K game not being a straight conversion.

Of course, with Space Hulk, Epic, and Blood Bowl now with reasonably direct conversions out or in development (Blood Bowl with a sequel soon), and their decision to end all of the supplemental lines, I hope that means we'll get a computer version of Necromunda soon.

Like, real soon.

Like, yesterday.

You hear me GW? You hear me? You owe me that much you bastards! You owe me that for the Tau, you sons of bitches! I WAS THE SHOOTY ARMY YOU SONS OF A THOUSAND FATHERS! I WAS!!!

[frigidmagi]

The Imperial Guard are still the better army. Because they're not a bunch of communist smurfs.