Scottish referendum: Voters to reject independence

[frigidmagi]

BBC

otland will vote to stay in the United Kingdom after rejecting independence, the BBC has predicted.

With 29 out of the country's 32 council areas having declared after Thursday's vote, the "No" side has 55% of the vote, with the "Yes" campaign on 45%.

By 06:00 BST (07:00 GMT), the "No" campaign had more than 1,737,000 votes, with "Yes" on just over 1,398,000.

A total of 1,852,828 votes is needed for victory. The vote is the culmination of a two-year campaign.

The BBC is predicting on the basis of votes declared so far by Scotland's local authorities the "No" side will win the referendum with 55% of the vote while "Yes" will secure 45% of the vote.

This margin of victory is some three points greater than that anticipated by the final opinion polls.

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Scotland will vote to stay in the United Kingdom after rejecting independence, the BBC has predicted.
Better Together supporters celebrate
Alex Salmond
Scottish National Party leader Alex Salmond is en route to Edinburgh
Glasgow, Scotland's largest council area and the third largest city in Britain, voted in favour of independence by 194,779 to 169,347, with Dundee, West Dunbartonshire and North Lanarkshire also voting "Yes".

But Edinburgh, the nation's capital, rejected independence by 194,638 to 123,927, while Aberdeen City voted "No" by a margin of more than 20,000 votes. There have also been big wins for the pro-UK campaign in many other areas.

Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond, who led the pro-independence "Yes" campaign, is expected to make a statement from his official residence at Bute House in Edinburgh at 10:00 BST (11:00 GMT).

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Nicola Sturgeon says she is "deeply disappointed"
In his first public comment since the results started coming in, Mr Salmond tweeted: "Well done to Glasgow, our Commonwealth city, and to the people of Scotland for such incredible support."

His deputy, Nicola Sturgeon, conceded defeat with a handful of results still to be declared, saying there was a "real sense of disappointment that we have fallen narrowly short of securing a 'Yes' vote".

She told the BBC the projected result was "a deep personal and political disappointment" but said "the country has been changed forever".

Ms Sturgeon said she would work with "anyone in any way" to secure more powers for Scotland.

Prime Minister David Cameron said: "I've spoken to Alistair Darling (head of the pro-UK Better Together campaign) - and congratulated him on a well-fought campaign."

Mr Cameron is expected to respond to Scotland's decision in a live televised address following the final result.

More in depth information on the voting is here. Only 4 out of the 32 districts voted for independence two of them urban (Dundee City and Glasgow) and the other two as I understand it fairly rural. On the flip side Edinburgh is also urban and soundly rejected the idea of breaking up the Union. As it stands there doesn't seem to be a rural/urban divide although there may be an age divide.

It is my profound hope that Cameron honors the pledges he made during this campaign. For everyone's sake. Additionally I would urge everyone in the UK to consider the benefits of federalism, for Welsh, North Irish, Scots and English alike.

[rhoenix]

<braveheart joketype="terrible">THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR LIVES... but we'll give away our chance at independence through a proper vote.</braveheart>

The comedy of using a Jew-hating Australian as a stand-in for one of Scotland's greatest heroes of independence and warrior poet-ishness won't get old for a while, I think.

More to the point, the vote got very, very close, as I understand the results. As Frigid stated, I do hope this sends a nice big smoke signal up to the leaders in the UK that maybe they should cut down on the assholishness.

[Lys]

Thank God reason prevailed, the notion of independent Scotland just never made any sense, and the pro-independence group's whole gameplan ammounted to nought but happy thoughts and optimism. If they want what's best for Scotland, they should take a page from the Quebeqois and use the threat of the next referendum being different to get London to bend over backwards in accomodating Scottish interests.

[General Havoc]

<braveheart joketype="terrible">THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR LIVES... but we'll give away our chance at independence through a proper vote.</braveheart>

The comedy of using a Jew-hating Australian as a stand-in for one of Scotland's greatest heroes of independence and warrior poet-ishness won't get old for a while, I think.

More to the point, the vote got very, very close, as I understand the results. As Frigid stated, I do hope this sends a nice big smoke signal up to the leaders in the UK that maybe they should cut down on the assholishness.

Ten points is not very very close. Especially not when the polls showed a dead head. This was a decisive rejection of Scottish independence, which as Lys indicated, was built around pipe dreams and the basic assumption that the English, having rolled over on so many issues, would let the Scots keep using all their stuff without making them take any debt or tax liabilities. One early proposal I saw even had Scotland using the NHS without contributing to it!

Good on the Scots for recognizing the fundamental bankruptcy of this proposal, and voting to stay in the UK. The opposite vote would have been a calamity for them.

[rhoenix]

Ten points is not very very close. Especially not when the polls showed a dead head. This was a decisive rejection of Scottish independence, which as Lys indicated, was built around pipe dreams and the basic assumption that the English, having rolled over on so many issues, would let the Scots keep using all their stuff without making them take any debt or tax liabilities. One early proposal I saw even had Scotland using the NHS without contributing to it!

Good on the Scots for recognizing the fundamental bankruptcy of this proposal, and voting to stay in the UK. The opposite vote would have been a calamity for them.

There were many unrealistic demands and ideas being bandied about, but beneath all of those was wanting to not feel like they were being taken for granted by the UK at large, from my reading of accounts. That by itself is not a bad thing in the least, despite the silliness that it engendered.

[General Havoc]

There were many unrealistic demands and ideas being bandied about, but beneath all of those was wanting to not feel like they were being taken for granted by the UK at large, from my reading of accounts. That by itself is not a bad thing in the least, despite the silliness that it engendered.

Everyone thinks that the rest of their particular country takes them for granted. Scotland had its own parliament, empowered to supersede the UK-wide one on local matters. They receive 50% more tax investment per person than the English do. This is like Arizona, who takes in eight dollars in services for every one they collect in taxes, deciding that the US is a burden on their shoulders.

I understand the emotional appeal of independence, particularly with the history present there. I understand that decisions like these are not entirely rational, and I understand the desire to make sacrifices for the intangibles one believes to be important. But independence for Scotland at this juncture would have been a very bad mistake.

[rhoenix]

Everyone thinks that the rest of their particular country takes them for granted. Scotland had its own parliament, empowered to supersede the UK-wide one on local matters. They receive 50% more tax investment per person than the English do. This is like Arizona, who takes in eight dollars in services for every one they collect in taxes, deciding that the US is a burden on their shoulders.

I understand the emotional appeal of independence, particularly with the history present there. I understand that decisions like these are not entirely rational, and I understand the desire to make sacrifices for the intangibles one believes to be important. But independence for Scotland at this juncture would have been a very bad mistake.

Oh, I agree completely on that count. An independent Scotland would not have been able to continue to be a first world nation for very long; in fact, by the same reading of accounts I mentioned earlier, Scotland would have been woefully unprepared to deal with the realities of being truly independent. In fact, as I saw it, Scotland had the chance of becoming more similar to modern day Detroit than modern day London.

I also agree that demanding independence out of a combination of frustration and nationalistic fervor is not a good combination. Demanding independence as a solution does not strike me as wise, from an outsider's perspective.

With all that said though, there are many accounts of Scotland getting passed over for consideration in many things, which is what led to these feelings of resentment in the first place. As long as them feeling included in decisions that affect them is taken into account going forward, then it would diffuse the situation pretty well - assuming that my reading of this situation is anywhere near correct, that is. There may well be a long list of nuances and subtleties that I'm simply not aware of.

[Lys]

More to the point, the vote got very, very close, as I understand the results. As Frigid stated, I do hope this sends a nice big smoke signal up to the leaders in the UK that maybe they should cut down on the assholishness.

Ten points is not very very close. Especially not when the polls showed a dead head. This was a decisive rejection of Scottish independence.

Let me put it this way, Obama's big victory in 2008 was by "only" 7 points. There have been 17 Presidential elections in the United States since the Second World War, if this had been the 18th, President No's victory over Yes would be the sixth biggest, just behind Eisenshower '52 and ahead of Reagan '80. As Havoc says, it was a decisive rejection. This isn't a signal for the English to cut down on anything, let alone some fanciful notion of them being assholes to Scotland when in fact they have given the Scots considerable autonomy and more than their fair share of government proceeds. The rest is just the Tories being Tories, and I assure you the likes of Cameron are not any nicer to the Midlands just because they're English.