Science fiction and "unique"...

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:40 am

(First topic of discussion. Yay!)

So what is it that makes science fiction unique to you, or what science fiction are you a fan/aware of that possess some truely unique attributes?

For example, looking to Star Wars. Star Wars was quite unique when it first came out, and still has one of the most unique concepts that I'm personally aware of: the mighty Lightsaber.

Furthermore, can you personally think up a science fiction concept that is truely unique, or at least virtually untouched upon?

What do you demand/expect from science fiction in general?

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:59 am

Not the trappings so much as the storytelling. I want societies and characters that are unique and realistic if not in terms of toys, at least in conceptual development.

This is where TV and movie producers missed out for a lot of years with science fiction fans, by assuming that we're all about the cool toys. They'd shell out crap with cool toys, it'd tank in the ratings, and then they'd assume there was no viable science fiction market.

Then came the blessed nineties, when things started to change. Now they realize there is a strong niche market out there, so the failure is in the fact that most TV and movies are crap. :P

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:04 am

The light saber is not unique to Star Wars, despite what Lucas want's you to think. It tends to be widespread in anime's and energy swords show often in the wilder sci-fi books.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:13 am

frigidmagi wrote:The light saber is not unique to Star Wars, despite what Lucas want's you to think. It tends to be widespread in anime's and energy swords show often in the wilder sci-fi books.

Was that before or after Star Wars introduced the concept to the big screen?

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:19 am

Hmm, i like things to be different and unique from each other. i really really hate things which have been ripped of in slight ways, for example, Trantor was before Curescant, and the Cybermen were before the Borg.

I have yet to see a Sc-Fi series based around small fighting crabs who ride pidgeons. Now that would be different

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:25 am

To expand a bit on the 'storyline makes it unique', take Babylon 5. B5 came out at a time when there was damned little in the way of science fiction on TV, other than Star Trek spinoffs. What made B5 unique was its story arc, and willingness to go beyond the standard Star Trek 'everything is resolved at the end of the hour' style.

For another example, Firefly introduced some real desperados to the scene. When Mal kicks Crowe into the jet intake at the end of 'The Train Job', I fell in love with that show.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:29 am

I still have yet to see Firefly, i dont think its even been on where i am, which is damn shame. We usally get all the good stuff before even the states.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:39 am

Dartzap wrote:I still have yet to see Firefly, i dont think its even been on where i am, which is damn shame. We usally get all the good stuff before even the states.

Check for the DVDs. They run about half the price of a regular DVD set, and they're definitely worth it.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:43 am

Sure, just give me the money, and it will be my pleasure to but some DVD's

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:45 am

Dartzap wrote:Sure, just give me the money, and it will be my pleasure to but some DVD's

Hey, I'm not your damn meal ticket. You can go knock over your own frickin' banks.

Er.

Get a, you know, real job. That's it. *whistles innocently*

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:49 am

Petrosjko wrote:
Dartzap wrote:Sure, just give me the money, and it will be my pleasure to but some DVD's
Hey, I'm not your damn meal ticket. You can go knock over your own frickin' banks.

Er.

Get a, you know, real job. That's it. *whistles innocently*

Master, don't make me moderate your rear in my forum.

Er...

I mean, your words of wisdom on DVD purchases are most appreciated.

Damn Froidian slip there...

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:49 am

He He, i am looking for one, but you know.. between blowing up planets and being an Joe Shmoe... its a bit hard to fit one in the schedule,

However, i shall bribe my father a huge amount of cheese to put them on the Amazon Rental list

Batman · Post by **Batman** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:57 pm

I don't think they're unique, but two concepts I find interesting that seem to be rare, at least in mainstream SciFi, are
1. FTL but no FTL long-range communications, like HH or Zahn's Conquerors trilogy. Meaning you have to send messengers, just like old times.
2. Humans are not the ultra-noble goody-two-shoes that all athers are in awe, eny, and possibly both of. Again, Zahn's Conqerors trilogy. Mankind in the form of the NordCoord, where all the aliens are rather pissed with them, and the only reason they are top dog is because if you mess with them you get your teeth kicked in.
While we're there, I absolute love the idea of a fight where both sides claim the other shot first and both sides are right.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Dartzap wrote:Hmm, i like things to be different and unique from each other. i really really hate things which have been ripped of in slight ways, for example, Trantor was before Curescant, and the Cybermen were before the Borg.

You'd dare talk down the Borg on board where I'm a super mod?

;) :P

I have yet to see a Sc-Fi series based around small fighting crabs who ride pidgeons. Now that would be different

Yeah, but would you really watch that?

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:05 am

Batman wrote:I don't think they're unique, but two concepts I find interesting that seem to be rare, at least in mainstream SciFi, are
1. FTL but no FTL long-range communications, like HH or Zahn's Conquerors trilogy. Meaning you have to send messengers, just like old times.

Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium series also has that. Likewise, David Drake's RCN series.

2. Humans are not the ultra-noble goody-two-shoes that all athers are in awe, eny, and possibly both of. Again, Zahn's Conqerors trilogy. Mankind in the form of the NordCoord, where all the aliens are rather pissed with them, and the only reason they are top dog is because if you mess with them you get your teeth kicked in.[/i].

Definitely David Drake, though he doesn't do much in the way of focus on interspecies relations outside of his Reaches trilogy, but he definitely has no illusions about human nature.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:03 am

For unique SF universe, I guess my pick is Dune. Worms, spice, sha-hulud, mentats, and such.

However, the most unique SF movie is Minority Report, and it's an excellent one! See, from the surface it appears to be nothing more than another futuristic action movie, but as the plot uncovered, there's something deeper inside. Turned out that the answer to the mystery is also the very reason that started it all. Also, there's a quality of "eerines" in the movie, which is rarely found in sci-fi genre (not Alien-esque "eerie", but the eerines commonly associated with mystery-thriller movies). Moreover, the SF aspect is integral to the plot.

The best SF movie I've ever seen. Period.

Robert Walper wrote:
Dartzap wrote:Hmm, i like things to be different and unique from each other. i really really hate things which have been ripped of in slight ways, for example, Trantor was before Curescant, and the Cybermen were before the Borg.
You'd dare talk down the Borg on board where I'm a super mod?

;) :P

But the Borg sucks. The Borg is vulnerable to KE weapons. The Borg cannot stand their own against the Romans. The Borg are slow and clumsy. The Borg sucks, sucks, and sucks! Nyah-nyah!! :P

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:29 am

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:
Dartzap wrote:Hmm, i like things to be different and unique from each other. i really really hate things which have been ripped of in slight ways, for example, Trantor was before Curescant, and the Cybermen were before the Borg.
You'd dare talk down the Borg on board where I'm a super mod?

;) :P

But the Borg sucks. The Borg is vulnerable to KE weapons. The Borg cannot stand their own against the Romans. The Borg are slow and clumsy. The Borg sucks, sucks, and sucks! Nyah-nyah!! :P

*twitches* Don't make me destroy you.

The Morrigan · Post by **The Morrigan** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:32 am

I tend to like Sci Fi that takes some time to explores the universe in which it is set and has believable characters. I like to be given some sort of explanation as to why a society evolved the way it has. Other than that, a decent plot and lots of explosions generally keep me happy. I would also tend to second Dartzap's comment about a concept being unique. Most forms of fiction are direvetive of something else, but it's nice if the creator has something individual to add.

I suppose Star Wars is my all time favourite because it to some extent combines science fiction & fantasy. I am also quite fond of Dark Angel, although I thought the conclusion was a bit meh.

Also, the Borg are pussies. :P

[runs]

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:53 am

The Morrigan wrote:I tend to like Sci Fi that takes some time to explores the universe in which it is set and has believable characters. I like to be given some sort of explanation as to why a society evolved the way it has. Other than that, a decent plot and lots of explosions generally keep me happy. I would also tend to second Dartzap's comment about a concept being unique. Most forms of fiction are direvetive of something else, but it's nice if the creator has something individual to add.

Do you read warhammer 40k and the culture book's, they fight the bill, if you have then can you reccommend any series like that to me?

The Morrigan wrote: I suppose Star Wars is my all time favourite because it to some extent combines science fiction & fantasy. I am also quite fond of Dark Angel, although I thought the conclusion was a bit meh.

Dark angel was very good in a gritty way, it is a pitty about the ending you can really see the fact that there was supposed to be a final season.

The Morrigan wrote: Also, the Borg are pussies. :P

[runs][/quote]
Sure are, even Janeway can destroy a scout Cube :P and they apparently have not learned of fleet's or multiple ship's if one isnt enough :P

Brother-Captain Gaius · Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:47 am

<3 40k.

At first, I was pretty skeptical. "Uh... Space Marines? They look like 60s robots or something." My friend at the time played Chaos and wanted me to get into it, and he wanted me to play Marines. I wasn't so sure, and to his dismay I picked the Guard for their military angle. And so my journey down the dark path began...

I didn't like the gothic atmosphere. I didn't like the religious feel to everything. I didn't like the regressed technology. I didn't like Chaos.

Now look at me.

40k, can you do no wrong?!

Post by **B4UTRUST** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:08 am

40k wrong #1: The Constant friggin price increases!
40k wrong #2: The constant revising of rules and armies lists, just when you get a good one going, nope, that's no longer valid, sorry.

any further questions?

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:27 am

yeah: 1) ever go to your very handy local newsagents which also sells 40K for half price, because they get a discount?

2) Do you even have newsagents over there?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:53 am

To get 40K over requires ordering it from abroad, I didnt even bother considering that there is maybe 1-2 other people in the country with half a dozen model's and the fact that I prefer to spend my money on book's and video games. :P

Brother-Captain Gaius · Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:08 am

B4UTRUST wrote:40k wrong #1: The Constant friggin price increases!
40k wrong #2: The constant revising of rules and armies lists, just when you get a good one going, nope, that's no longer valid, sorry.

any further questions?

Inflation + No "Made in Taiwan" crap on your miniatures = $$.

As for #2, you would prefer they leave the game untouched? That would be like releasing buggy software and refusing to patch it, because it would "upset the customers who did buy it."

Furthermore, the more recent revisions hardly screw over entire armies. Sure, Dreadnoughts are Elite now instead of Heavy Support, so what? A little shuffling around never killed an Angel of Death.

Post by **B4UTRUST** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:40 am

In less then 5 years the price of the warhammer minis have more then doubled in price. And the quality has gotten poorer with the materials used to make them. $20-40 for a single figure now? Come on, that's price gouging in the extreme. Then there's GW's tendency to up the prices about 1-2 months prior to christmas and other big spending holidays then drop the price back to what it originally was to "pass the savings on to you during the holiday season."

And while I'm not questioning the need to update and revise needed rule changes, what I do resent is that warhammer has gone from a relatively simple to play and understand, easy to learn game to a daunting thing that requires a degree in advanced comprehension and mathmatics to play properly and have any clue wtf you're doing.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game, I enjoy the 'verse as a whole and think it's very very good. I just have a few issues with it. For instance, as I stated before, having to revamp half your fucking army because the army you have is no longer a valid army. It's not that something that was heavy is now elite, it's that entire portions of your army are no longer supported or play legal, such as my huge fucking army of 2nd ed orc gretchins which are now worthless.

To get an equal number of the little critters I have to spend $8 for 4 tiny plastic minis that are half the size of a regular orc. $8 for four of them. My only viable solution at this point is to convert WHF Goblins into Gretchin using misc. extra weapons bits I can scrounge up.

LibriumArcana.Games

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