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#26

Post by Josh »

The Morrigan wrote:I don't care what they think we are and I don't care what they think they believe in. They're still fucking murderers and bullys and their perverted idea of Islam doesn't make them any less so.
My point is that the concept that they could understand what they're doing is wrong is a concept of civilization that eludes them utterly.

They're ready to see this through to the end, no matter how many times they have to pull operations like this, because their beliefs justify these atrocities.

We're going to have to be hard to see this through. It's not going to be easy or pleasant.
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#27

Post by The Morrigan »

Petrosjko wrote:
The Morrigan wrote:I don't care what they think we are and I don't care what they think they believe in. They're still fucking murderers and bullys and their perverted idea of Islam doesn't make them any less so.
My point is that the concept that they could understand what they're doing is wrong is a concept of civilization that eludes them utterly.
Disregarding the bit about 'civilisation', that's pretty much what I said in the first place.
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#28

Post by Ace Pace »

Nuke all the fundie states except Qatar! :evil:

Why Qatar? I know a prince there who owes me money, alot of it.
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"Do we think Israel would be nuts enough to go back into Lebanon with Olmert still in power and calling the shots? They could hook Sharon up to a heart monitor and interpret the blips and bleeps as "yes" and "no" and do better than that, both strategically and emotionally."
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#29

Post by Batman »

Ah yes, the Shep SolutionTM. Yes that's going to make things better.
There's no such things as fundie states. There's only fundie regimes.
I'd bet good money that 90% or so of the population of said fundie 'states' mainly want to make a living and be left alone. Of course, since they want to be left alone, it's not them that give statements to the media (probably along the lines of 'I have a harvest to take care of so why don't you stop bothering me'). Just because the extremists are the most vocal doesn't mean they're the majority.
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#30

Post by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman »

Batman wrote:Ah yes, the Shep SolutionTM. Yes that's going to make things better.
There's no such things as fundie states. There's only fundie regimes.
I'd bet good money that 90% or so of the population of said fundie 'states' mainly want to make a living and be left alone. Of course, since they want to be left alone, it's not them that give statements to the media (probably along the lines of 'I have a harvest to take care of so why don't you stop bothering me'). Just because the extremists are the most vocal doesn't mean they're the majority.
Yes, like in Indonesia for example. Although the fundie population in the whole country or even in campus is nothing but minority, their impact is really beyond their number.
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#31

Post by Ra »

Maniacs who scream loud enough and wave their hands will naturally get more attention than normal, sane people. That is, people who keep their mouths shut and their beliefs to themselves.

I'd love to see the day when all fundies, regardless of what damn religion they adhere to, finally get their comeuppance. Sadly, that day will never happen. :evil:
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#32

Post by Ace Pace »

Batman wrote:Ah yes, the Shep SolutionTM. Yes that's going to make things better.
There's no such things as fundie states. There's only fundie regimes.
I'd bet good money that 90% or so of the population of said fundie 'states' mainly want to make a living and be left alone. Of course, since they want to be left alone, it's not them that give statements to the media (probably along the lines of 'I have a harvest to take care of so why don't you stop bothering me'). Just because the extremists are the most vocal doesn't mean they're the majority.
I agree with you, though after knowing some of the future higher ups from Saudi in the like, its hard to feel any hope.

No, i'm not going to explain how I know people from a country who dosn't recognize Israel
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Mayabird:You see what this place does to us? It's like how Eskimos have their 16 names for snow. We have to precisely define what shafting we're receiving.

"Do we think Israel would be nuts enough to go back into Lebanon with Olmert still in power and calling the shots? They could hook Sharon up to a heart monitor and interpret the blips and bleeps as "yes" and "no" and do better than that, both strategically and emotionally."
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#33

Post by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman »

Ace Pace wrote:No, i'm not going to explain how I know people from a country who dosn't recognize Israel
Come on, Ace. It's no secret they have hardware freaks too in Arabian countries! :P
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#34

Post by Ace Pace »

Never met one. My experiance with Saudi,Qatarian and UAE royalty shows that there are three main camps.
Fundies, who tryed to convert me(I kid you not).
Religious people, who kept their religion to themselves, but live acording to it.
Reguler people, though who act seriously annoyed if anyone DARES to THINK that hes not a holy muslim. However, those are the best kind, because their mostly normal.

Guess whats the majority?

Mod, delete the guest post please.
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Dorsk 81: this is why I support the separation of Aces eyebrow's, something that ugly should never be joined

Mayabird:You see what this place does to us? It's like how Eskimos have their 16 names for snow. We have to precisely define what shafting we're receiving.

"Do we think Israel would be nuts enough to go back into Lebanon with Olmert still in power and calling the shots? They could hook Sharon up to a heart monitor and interpret the blips and bleeps as "yes" and "no" and do better than that, both strategically and emotionally."
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#35

Post by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman »

Anonymous wrote:
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:
Ace Pace wrote:No, i'm not going to explain how I know people from a country who dosn't recognize Israel
Come on, Ace. It's no secret they have hardware freaks too in Arabian countries! :P
Never met one. My experiance with Saudi,Qatarian and UAE royalty shows that there are three main camps.
Shuddup, Guest. I'm talking to Ace Pace. :P

Anonymous wrote:Fundies, who tryed to convert me(I kid you not).
Well, after a moslem fundie tried to *convert* me despite the fact I was already a moslem....


Anonymous wrote:Religious people, who kept their religion to themselves, but live acording to it.
Where's the people who keep their religion to themselves and do NOT live according to it? :P


Anonymous wrote:Reguler people, though who act seriously annoyed if anyone DARES to THINK that hes not a holy muslim. However, those are the best kind, because their mostly normal.
NORMAL??? :shock:

Even in Indonesia, regular people don't give a shit whether people would think they're "holy moslem" or not.


Anonymous wrote:Guess whats the majority?
I guess it is the regular ones... although the "I-am-a-holy-moslem" trait scares me off.

By the way, how did you meet those people, then? Did you actually travel to their countries? But since they do not acknowledge the existence of Israel, how did you get the visa?
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So be it. If saying "NO" means being alone, then to hell with love, with romance, with marriage, and all the shit life keeps pumping at me. I'll walk alone, but with freedom and a healed pride.

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#36

Post by Ace Pace »

Your wrong, its the quiet religious types, who I actully enjoy talking too. Maybe I'm missing out on a group, because those I've met are usually very rich.
And I'm not telling, its complex, and mostly involves ruining great memories of an area which had some of the best snow in Europe.
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Dorsk 81: this is why I support the separation of Aces eyebrow's, something that ugly should never be joined

Mayabird:You see what this place does to us? It's like how Eskimos have their 16 names for snow. We have to precisely define what shafting we're receiving.

"Do we think Israel would be nuts enough to go back into Lebanon with Olmert still in power and calling the shots? They could hook Sharon up to a heart monitor and interpret the blips and bleeps as "yes" and "no" and do better than that, both strategically and emotionally."
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#37

Post by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman »

Ace Pace wrote:Your wrong, its the quiet religious types, who I actully enjoy talking too. Maybe I'm missing out on a group, because those I've met are usually very rich.
I see, although I'm still surprised to know the religious ones are actually the rich. I mean, Hassan Bolkiah has a floating sex palace he named "Tits" (I kid you not; the yacht's name is actually Tits), while in Indonesia, the upper-class mostly don't give much damn about Syari'a either.



Here in my country, most Islamic fundies are people calling themselves 'new intellectuals'. They mostly come from less-educated background (family, parents, and the likes), but they manage to get university education.

When they enter the uni, they usually join mosque-based organization and such, and become fundies at one night! (I kid you not) They are also the same people who become the backbone of Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS); a very prominent fundie political party in Indonesia.

They're young people, and tend to be very impressionable (in fundie things). They are very fanatic in their fundie belief, although their polite and friendly facade often deceive. They are also very aware of education-based "caste"; an acquintance of mine got a grad scholarship to Georgia Tech, and became VERY pompous about it; hiding his arrogance behind false politeness and such.

It's very frustrating to debate against those self-proclaimed 'new intellectuals', because their tactics mostly consist 'evading the issue' and 'style over substance' fallacy. They tend to associate intellect with politeness and niceties. The fundie acquintance I described above refused to debate against me because my usage of the word 'fuck', which he claimed unintellect.



People who come from educated background, on the other hand, are mostly moderates and not interested in fundamentalism. As for the upper class, they are more interested in indulging themselves!

(and the self-indulgent culture is often passed to their kids even if they're not rich anymore. :mrgreen: )

I'm not saying self-indulgent culture is bad, though. It contains positive things like 'enjoy your life' and 'there are things more important than money'. :D Some of my childhood friends are now pursuing 'non-lucrative' career and very dedicated in it; simply because they love it.



As for the older generations, even though they are more 'orthodox', are actually much less fundie than these new generations. Long-established moslem organizations like Nahdatul Ulama (NU) and old generation Islamic scholars like Abdurrahman Wahid ("Gus Dur") and Nurcholis Madjid are actually very moderate. So in Indonesia, the word 'orthodox' is actually more associated with 'moderate'; it is the new radicals that scare people off with their hardline attitude.

In fact, the 'headscarf culture' was started by the young ones; my mom, who is religious, never wear headscarf (not to mention she told her students to stay away from fundie organizations; she's a lecturer), and women of her generation do not wear headscarf either.



Ace Pace wrote:And I'm not telling, its complex, and mostly involves ruining great memories of an area which had some of the best snow in Europe.
Ah, I see. Nothing beat a good adventure!
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So be it. If saying "NO" means being alone, then to hell with love, with romance, with marriage, and all the shit life keeps pumping at me. I'll walk alone, but with freedom and a healed pride.

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#38

Post by Ace Pace »

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:
Ace Pace wrote:Your wrong, its the quiet religious types, who I actully enjoy talking too. Maybe I'm missing out on a group, because those I've met are usually very rich.
I see, although I'm still surprised to know the religious ones are actually the rich. I mean, Hassan Bolkiah has a floating sex palace he named "Tits" (I kid you not; the yacht's name is actually Tits), while in Indonesia, the upper-class mostly don't give much damn about Syari'a either.
Theres alot of rich types who only pay lip service, but in Saudi...they take fundi-sim seriously. The Lip service however are in power because of religion, so they'll get pissed if you say their not religious. ;)

Here in my country, most Islamic fundies are people calling themselves 'new intellectuals'. They mostly come from less-educated background (family, parents, and the likes), but they manage to get university education.

When they enter the uni, they usually join mosque-based organization and such, and become fundies at one night! (I kid you not) They are also the same people who become the backbone of Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS); a very prominent fundie political party in Indonesia.

They're young people, and tend to be very impressionable (in fundie things). They are very fanatic in their fundie belief, although their polite and friendly facade often deceive. They are also very aware of education-based "caste"; an acquintance of mine got a grad scholarship to Georgia Tech, and became VERY pompous about it; hiding his arrogance behind false politeness and such.

It's very frustrating to debate against those self-proclaimed 'new intellectuals', because their tactics mostly consist 'evading the issue' and 'style over substance' fallacy. They tend to associate intellect with politeness and niceties. The fundie acquintance I described above refused to debate against me because my usage of the word 'fuck', which he claimed unintellect.
Not suprising, though I'm noticing a serious trend among some of the younger kids in combining hip culture(they get around enough as it is to be affected) while still "I'm a muslim" spiel.

People who come from educated background, on the other hand, are mostly moderates and not interested in fundamentalism. As for the upper class, they are more interested in indulging themselves!

(and the self-indulgent culture is often passed to their kids even if they're not rich anymore. :mrgreen: )

I'm not saying self-indulgent culture is bad, though. It contains positive things like 'enjoy your life' and 'there are things more important than money'. :D Some of my childhood friends are now pursuing 'non-lucrative' career and very dedicated in it; simply because they love it.
Again, not suprising.
As for the older generations, even though they are more 'orthodox', are actually much less fundie than these new generations. Long-established moslem organizations like Nahdatul Ulama (NU) and old generation Islamic scholars like Abdurrahman Wahid ("Gus Dur") and Nurcholis Madjid are actually very moderate. So in Indonesia, the word 'orthodox' is actually more associated with 'moderate'; it is the new radicals that scare people off with their hardline attitude.


In fact, the 'headscarf culture' was started by the young ones; my mom, who is religious, never wear headscarf (not to mention she told her students to stay away from fundie organizations; she's a lecturer), and women of her generation do not wear headscarf either.
So givin time we might find a serious sudden backlash against fundies?


Ace Pace wrote:And I'm not telling, its complex, and mostly involves ruining great memories of an area which had some of the best snow in Europe.
Ah, I see. Nothing beat a good adventure!
Lets say it involves in 2 cases way too much going up and down stairs and in the third case involves my first experiance with drinking and near experiance with weed.
And sex, you would not belive how much fundies are all over each other.
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Dorsk 81: this is why I support the separation of Aces eyebrow's, something that ugly should never be joined

Mayabird:You see what this place does to us? It's like how Eskimos have their 16 names for snow. We have to precisely define what shafting we're receiving.

"Do we think Israel would be nuts enough to go back into Lebanon with Olmert still in power and calling the shots? They could hook Sharon up to a heart monitor and interpret the blips and bleeps as "yes" and "no" and do better than that, both strategically and emotionally."
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#39

Post by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman »

Ace Pace wrote:Theres alot of rich types who only pay lip service,
Am I the only one who thought you were talking about oral sex?


Ace Pace wrote: but in Saudi...they take fundi-sim seriously. The Lip service however are in power because of religion, so they'll get pissed if you say their not religious. ;)
In Indonesia, most lip servicing upper class are politicians. Bad politicians, of course. The good ones don't have the need to currying the favor of the fundies.

In fact, it is ex-Suharto henchmen who are sucking the fundies cock often.


Ace Pace wrote:Not suprising, though I'm noticing a serious trend among some of the younger kids in combining hip culture(they get around enough as it is to be affected) while still "I'm a muslim" spiel.
Not in my country, though. Indonesian fundies loathe hip culture.


Ace Pace wrote:Again, not suprising.
Yup.


Ace Pace wrote:So givin time we might find a serious sudden backlash against fundies?
Not really:


(1) the young radicals are not listening to the previous generation; not even their parents, for that matter. Heck, when I was a uni student, a fundie organization said IT IS RIGHT TO KILL YOUR PARENTS if they do not convert into Syari'a. :evil:

Fundie organizations in campus are horrible; they are separating people from their loved ones. Heck, my own cousin was a victim of this brainwash, and it took years for him to finally reconcile with his folks.

And anyone recall the co-worker whom I was almost having affair with? Yes, recently she told me that her brother-in-law, who's a uni student, is getting brainwashed by one of those fundie organizations.

I wish I can just shake my head and say "kids today...." upon this phenomenon, but this brainwashing is horrible. There *were* times when I thought such things can only happen in the movies....


(2) the moderate orthodox (the old people, that is) are not going to live forever. On the other hand, virtually no young generation would continue their moderate views.

Trust me, m'boy. Indonesia is a shithole to live. First, the economy crisis; and then this campus brainwashing. Of course university graduates are still minority, but then, since they represent the 'elites' in society (education-wise), the impact is greatly beyond their number.


Ace Pace wrote:Lets say it involves in 2 cases way too much going up and down stairs and in the third case involves my first experiance with drinking and near experiance with weed.
Come on, Ace. Where's the 'watching-my-first-porn' part? :P


Ace Pace wrote:And sex, you would not belive how much fundies are all over each other.
Would you believe me if I tell you a fundie friend of mine was pregnant outside marriage?
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So be it. If saying "NO" means being alone, then to hell with love, with romance, with marriage, and all the shit life keeps pumping at me. I'll walk alone, but with freedom and a healed pride.

NEVER buy a LiteOn CD/DVD Writer. Ever.
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#40

Post by Ace Pace »

*annoyed at quote tags*

1)Yes.

2)Fundies SAY they loath pop culture. Its their prime source of recruits.

3) Those are worrying, I'm suddenly reminded of what happens to Indonesia in TBO.

4) At home. Though first time girl hides under my bed to get away from someone was there. Cute girl too, to bad I had no chance.

4) *cough* *cough* Not suprising *cough* *cough*

The problem with the fundie lifestyle is that it MUST exist in a bubble, or it will be broken, no one can withstand the NEED to go out and interact, you end up with respressed psychological damaged people if they don't give in.
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Dorsk 81: this is why I support the separation of Aces eyebrow's, something that ugly should never be joined

Mayabird:You see what this place does to us? It's like how Eskimos have their 16 names for snow. We have to precisely define what shafting we're receiving.

"Do we think Israel would be nuts enough to go back into Lebanon with Olmert still in power and calling the shots? They could hook Sharon up to a heart monitor and interpret the blips and bleeps as "yes" and "no" and do better than that, both strategically and emotionally."
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#41

Post by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman »

Ace Pace wrote:The problem with the fundie lifestyle is that it MUST exist in a bubble, or it will be broken, no one can withstand the NEED to go out and interact, you end up with respressed psychological damaged people if they don't give in.
That's why fundie girls are the most horny ones. Unfortunately, the good-looking ones are not many (in Indonesia). Of course, there's still some real gems among them. With right approach and persuassion, you can help them 'breaking their bubble'.

Come to me again when you're 18. ;) (no, I ain't going to share any tips NOW)
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:welcome :arrow: :sheepfucker: :thumbsup

So be it. If saying "NO" means being alone, then to hell with love, with romance, with marriage, and all the shit life keeps pumping at me. I'll walk alone, but with freedom and a healed pride.

NEVER buy a LiteOn CD/DVD Writer. Ever.
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