Goom Killed on Wedding Day

[Rukia]

Linky

CBS/AP) Police in New York City say the fatal shooting outside of a club stemmed from an undercover operation inside the building.

Police are not releasing many details because the investigation had not been completed, but one official says officers were "observing a group" that later got into a confrontation with back-up officers outside.

Police say five of the seven officers at the scene fired shots, leaving two people injured and killing a groom to-be, Sean Bell, on his wedding day as they were leaving a bachelor party.

The two officers who did not fire have been questioned by police.

The shooting has drawn angry protests from family members and the Reverend Al Sharpton.

The intersection where the shooting occurred was blocked off this afternoon as police inspected a car and a minivan and placed dozens of crime scene markers on the ground where shell casings had been found.

The shooting happened just after 4 a.m. around 143-39 95th Ave. in the Jamaica section of Queens, near Club Kalua, said Officer Kathleen Price, a police department spokeswoman.

It was not immediately clear what provoked the shooting, but the incident drew outcry from community leaders and family who demanded answers about how it happened. Paul Browne, chief spokesman for the New York Police Department, declined comment Saturday morning.

The man who died was taken to Jamaica Hospital Medical Center, said Sgt. Mike Wysokowski, another spokesman. The other two were taken to Mary Immaculate Hospital nearby, with one in critical condition and the other stable. The three men ranged in age from 23 to 31 years old.

Relatives said Bell, 23, was a father of two.

Robert Porter, who identified himself as Bell's first cousin, said he was supposed to be a DJ at the wedding. He said about 250 people were invited to the ceremony and were flying in from all over the country.

"I can't really express myself. It's a numb feeling," Porter said. "I still don't want to believe it, a beautiful day like this, and he was going to have a beautiful wedding, he was going to live forever with his wife and children. And this happened."

There were no reports that any officers were wounded in the incident. As many as eight officers may have been involved, but it was not immediately clear what roles each played, Wysokowski said.

Denise Ford, mother of one of the surviving shooting victims, told WCBS-TV correspondent Tamsen Fadal that the men's car hit another vehicle as they left the club celebrating the groom impending wedding.

"They made a mistake and ran into a DT car," she said, whereupon she claimed officers exited their car and opened fire.

Bullets pierced another car, a house and a window of a nearby train platform.

Ford blamed what she described as the police officers' over-reaction to the accident: "They're too hotheaded — something needs to be done about them."

Abraham Kamara, 38, who lives on Liverpool Street a few blocks from where the shooting occurred, said he was getting ready for work at about 4 a.m. when he heard gunfire.

"First it was like four shots," he said. "And then it was like pop-pop-pop like 12 times."

He hesitated for a few minutes before going outside until he saw a swarm of police cars and a police helicopter converge on his street.

Roy Brown, who said he works as a photographer at the club, said that not long after the men left the club, police sirens filled the air, and Brown and others emerged to learn the three had been shot.

"They weren't rowdy or nothing like that," said Brown, 57, of Queens, who said he knew some of the men's relatives. "This is ugly what happened."

Sharpton went to Jamaica Hospital on Saturday after a request from Bell's family. At a news conference there, Sharpton stood with about two dozen members of Bell's and his fiancee's family, calling on police to give "real answers" about the shooting.

"I will stand with this family," he said. "This stinks. Something about the story being told did not seem right."

Sharpton said he intends to probe the circumstances surrounding the shooting and whatever justification the police might give for it. "This family deserves answers, deserves justice, and we intend to stand with them to get it," he said.

Sharpton said Bell and his fiancee had two children, one 3 years old and the other 5 months old.

According to fox news they're justifiying shooting at the guy 50 times by saying that an undercover cop saw that one of the men he was with indicated that he had a gun. Sean was unarmed. There are several different stories of why they felt it neceassary to fire fifty shots. One cop shot 31 bullets by himself.

[frigidmagi]

One cop shot 31 bullets by himself.

Are we sure about that? Standard police issue is semi-automatic with 15 in the clip. That means this guy would have to of reloaded twice and I can tell you from experience it's not often you reload and just fire one shot.

Abraham Kamara, 38, who lives on Liverpool Street a few blocks from where the shooting occurred, said he was getting ready for work at about 4 a.m. when he heard gunfire.

"First it was like four shots," he said. "And then it was like pop-pop-pop like 12 times."

From this guy it sounds more like 16 at most which seems more reasonable. 50 rounds flying around is alot of metal.

[Batman]

Frigid beat me to it. 31 shots from one cop is even more excessive than 50 total, though from the article it's unclear wether the officers were shooting at the vehicle the victims were in or the victims themselves after exiting it (it says the victim's car hit a 'DT' (what does that mean, while we're at it?) car and the officers started shooting).

[Rukia]

everytime they've played the story it has been 50 shots and yes I'm sure he shot thirty or thirty one... it said that the cop emptied his clip and reloaded then did it again.

[frigidmagi]

Wouldn't be the first time the media fucked up a firefight, or one sided shooting whatever this was. You very rarely see one guy do 2/3ths of the shooting all by himself, unless he's a demented fuck.

[Hotfoot]

The first mag was probably loaded with one in the chamber. 16+15 = 31

It's interesting that virtually everyone reporting this is glossing over the fact that the guy driving the car tried to run down the police officers, slammed into the cop's car TWICE, and hit a building.

While shooting unarmed civilians is obviously a bad thing, if someone came at me in a car and I had a gun, I might just try to fight back. One ton of metal moving 20-40 mph can be just as lethal as one gram of metal moving at just below the speed of sound, sometimes moreso.

[Rukia]

Yea but it is against police policy to shoot an automoblie if it is being used as a weapon. Also there is a version saying that a cop car hit Bell's car causing it to move foreward.

The problem the cops are going to face is making the case that firing 50 shots was necessary.

[Ra]

It's interesting that virtually everyone reporting this is glossing over the fact that the guy driving the car tried to run down the police officers, slammed into the cop's car TWICE, and hit a building.

While shooting unarmed civilians is obviously a bad thing, if someone came at me in a car and I had a gun, I might just try to fight back. One ton of metal moving 20-40 mph can be just as lethal as one gram of metal moving at just below the speed of sound, sometimes moreso.

I have to agree. The suspects tried to run down the police with their car, which gives me very little sympathy to them. Was 50 shots excessive? Yeah, pretty much. But I'd probably be similarly spooked with someone trying to run me over with their car. While not right, the police's reaction was understandable.

[Hotfoot]

Yea but it is against police policy to shoot an automoblie if it is being used as a weapon. Also there is a version saying that a cop car hit Bell's car causing it to move foreward.

The problem the cops are going to face is making the case that firing 50 shots was necessary.

I'm not sure where you heard that, but I'm pretty sure it's not true. I've seen numerous examples of police firing on vehicles that have been used for assault. They've shot out tires, shot at the driver, and so on. I get the feeling this may be perpetrated as a myth by the media to whip up a fervor against the police.

As for 50 shots being excessive, I both agree and disagree. Chances are they squeezed off too many shots in too short a timeframe, the sheer number of missd shots and ricochets would be indicative of them not hitting what they were shooting for. However, at the end of the day, once you have made the decision to shoot someone, you fire as many bullets as are necessary. It seems like the fact is that the other officers all fired reasonable amounts of bullets, with the one guy who fired 31 being somewhat excessive. Think about it, roughly six officers, firing some fifty-odd shots. Sixty percent of those shots came from one officer. That means that the five other officers fired an average of four shots apiece.

[frigidmagi]

The first mag was probably loaded with one in the chamber. 16+15 = 31

Expect cops aren't suppose to that and these boys were undercover, where you're not suppose to open fire at all.

[Rukia]

The police department's policy on shooting at moving vehicles states: "Police officers shall not discharge their firearms at or from a moving vehicle unless deadly force is being used against the police officers or another person present, by means other than a moving vehicle."

Ok my bad I heard wrong.

I'm not choosing sides I'm really not. My major issue is the fact that none of the men were armed. They were not involved with the investigation directly, the investigation was on the strip joint, not the men.

I realize that it becomes reflex to aim, fire, reload, until the target is eliminated. But... they are still going to have to prove that they felt the need to stop this man by proving the threat that he had.

That's going to be hella rough.

[Hotfoot]

Actually, it would appear I'm wrong. There was no other lethal threat other than the car, and if it was moving, their policy prohibits them from shooting at it.

And while hotloading the gun may not be standard procedure (or even normally allowed) it's far more likely than the guy reloading twice and only firing once from the third magazine. May not be right, but it's the way things probably happened.

As for undercover cops not being allowed to open fire, I'm pretty sure that while there are significant restrictions on doing so, it's still allowable in extreme situations.

All that said, what these cops did may not be legal, but there's a serious question as to if it was in any way justified. I tend to give police officers the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, because they are routinely put in situations where they have to make decisions in a split second that are then later picked apart by months of questions and impossible expectations.

Is it possible this was wrong and the cops should pay? Sure it is. They may lose their jobs and even face hard time for this. If it was unjustified, I'll join the ranks of people calling for their dismissal from the force and prosecution by the DA, but this situation looks extremely dodgy, and the fact that the media seems to be glossing over a very important fact strikes me as dishonest. I mean come on, the guy deliberately used his car as a weapon when approached by police. That right there says something to me.

[frigidmagi]

As for undercover cops not being allowed to open fire, I'm pretty sure that while there are significant restrictions on doing so, it's still allowable in extreme situations

The vast majority of the time undercover cops aren't even suppose to make arrest. Their job is to gather information and pass it on so other officers can make the arrest without endangering the undercover operative. That's why they're not suppose to shot or draw attention to themselves in such a manner.