Afghan Army Starting To Stand Up

N&P: Discussion of news headlines and politics.

Moderator: frigidmagi

Post Reply
User avatar
Cpl Kendall
Disciple
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm
19
Location: Ontario, Canada

#1 Afghan Army Starting To Stand Up

Post by Cpl Kendall »

CTV.CA
O'Connor points to signs of hope in Afghanistan

Updated Sun. Jul. 22 2007 12:19 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

If all goes according to plan, Canada could begin backing away from its heavy combat role in the south of Afghanistan in about six months as the Afghan National Army matures -- something it is showing signs of doing, said Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor.

O'Connor was responding to new poll numbers that suggest support within Canada for the deployment is dropping while opposition is rising.

According to the Strategic Counsel poll conducted for CTV and The Globe and Mail, 59 per cent of Canadians are now against sending troops to Afghanistan, up from 56 per cent a year ago, while 36 per cent support the deployment, down from 39 per cent.

During an appearance on CTV's Question Period that aired Sunday, O'Connor said those numbers are largely due to Canadians' lack of clear understanding of Canada's successes in Afghanistan, as well as the challenges faced there.

He said there is reason to believe that the situation in Afghanistan is improving, and Canada's frontline role will soon be reduced.

O'Connor said Canadian troops recently sponsored an Afghan infantry battalion, providing intense mentorship and training, and as a result the battalion is now out conducting its own operations.

He described it as a success that will be used as a model for training other battalions, and will eventually take pressure off the Canadians.

"Over the next four or five months were going to be picking up four or five additional Afghan battalions to train and mentor and get them out into the field," O'Connor said.

"We're hoping by the end of this rotation that's going in now, the so called Van Doos rotation, we'll have about 3,000 Afghan army operating within the Kandahar province, and as we train more and more of the Aghan army to carry out their own operations we'll continue to withdraw, put more emphasis on training, and at some stage basically be in reserve."

The Van Doos rotation in Afghanistan will last six months.

O'Connor also renewed his call for other NATO nations to step up their involvement and allow their troops to take part in combat operations in the more volatile regions of the country. At the moment, most of the heavy lifting is being done by Canada, the U.K., the Netherlands and the U.S.

"It would help the situation if more NATO nations sent troops to the south and the east but we can't put all our eggs in one basket. We have to train the Afghan army as quickly as possible and that's what we're doing," O'Connor said.
Well it's been a long time coming. They still suck shit and are more or less as useless as tits on a bull compared to Western troops but it's something. And hopefully it will help take some of the pressure off of us. They are of course going to take heavy casualties. That's if the Taliban just don't ignore them in favour of continuing to wear us down.

Note: I don't actually expect this to offer us any break. There's always something else for us to do in country and the Afghan Army is pretty tiny and horribly underequipped for this kind of thing. I expect them to be calling us for help for a long time.
User avatar
frigidmagi
Dragon Death-Marine General
Posts: 14757
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
19
Location: Alone and unafraid

#2

Post by frigidmagi »

Well it's been a long time coming.
Fuck yes.
They still suck shit and are more or less as useless as tits on a bull compared to Western troops but it's something.
I gotta point out they don't have to fight Western troops, they have to fight Al Q religious fanatics and Taliban tribal levies from S Afghan and Nw Pakistan
And hopefully it will help take some of the pressure off of us. They are of course going to take heavy casualties.
Agreed but you know... It is their damn country maybe they should be the ones dying and killing for it?
That's if the Taliban just don't ignore them in favour of continuing to wear us down.
Actually that wouldn't be all bad, every extra day/week/month the Taliban give them and us to improve them is a fucking gift that makes it more likely that they'll be able to do the job. Yes it sucks that our people have to die to make that time but this is war, people die it's not fun or cool but that's the way it is. Granted our commanders should be doing their level best to not only minimize our causalities but make sure they're not for nothing.
Note: I don't actually expect this to offer us any break. There's always something else for us to do in country and the Afghan Army is pretty tiny and horribly underequipped for this kind of thing. I expect them to be calling us for help for a long time.
If nothing else they can replace our more... Pacific allies (read allies who claim they're here to help but steadfastly refuse to send their troops to you know... fight) up north. But even if we turn into their 24/7 react force it's an improvement over our current deployments and requirements I think. If nothing else we may be able to send some of boys home... Although I wouldn't swear to that.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
User avatar
Cpl Kendall
Disciple
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm
19
Location: Ontario, Canada

#3

Post by Cpl Kendall »

frigidmagi wrote: I gotta point out they don't have to fight Western troops, they have to fight Al Q religious fanatics and Taliban tribal levies from S Afghan and Nw Pakistan
True, unfortunatly the Taliban and assorted shitbags that have been fighting us will be able to us the experiance gained against us to greater effect agaisnt the Afghans. But a friend of mine who served on the very first tour in Afghanistan in Tora Bora said this "let them learn on the go, nothing teaches better than on the job training".
Agreed but you know... It is their damn country maybe they should be the ones dying and killing for it?
Very true, we can't hold their hands forever. And if they ever want to to be an independent country they have to be able to handle their problems themselves.
Actually that wouldn't be all bad, every extra day/week/month the Taliban give them and us to improve them is a fucking gift that makes it more likely that they'll be able to do the job. Yes it sucks that our people have to die to make that time but this is war, people die it's not fun or cool but that's the way it is. Granted our commanders should be doing their level best to not only minimize our causalities but make sure they're not for nothing.
Actually I think the question of whether or not we are dying for nothing is somewhat out of our hands beyond the immediate tactical perspective. The real meat of the issue is whether the country is being transformed from a backwards, no-rights shithole to a reasonable progressive state. For that you need changes to the education and government system that is basically the realm of aid agencies, NGO's and diplomats. We just provide the security to make it happen. So far I think we've done a middling job of it. Better than Iraq but not the greatest job on the planet. Most of the blame falls squarely on the politicos shoulders for not bringing the hard guns to bear on Karzai's government.
If nothing else they can replace our more... Pacific allies (read allies who claim they're here to help but steadfastly refuse to send their troops to you know... fight) up north. But even if we turn into their 24/7 react force it's an improvement over our current deployments and requirements I think. If nothing else we may be able to send some of boys home... Although I wouldn't swear to that.
I think ultimately we'll become the Afghan Army's IRF, responding to requests for help when shit gets to much for their own limited resources to handle. We have the air support and heavy armour to fill the role. So in the long run we may end up taking less losses but for now I think we still have to suck it up. This sea change probably is still years away.
User avatar
Cpl Kendall
Disciple
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm
19
Location: Ontario, Canada

#4

Post by Cpl Kendall »

CTV.CA
Prompt Afghanistan handoff unlikely: commander

Updated Mon. Jul. 30 2007 8:16 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Canada's outgoing military commander in Afghanistan says the Afghan National Army is making great progress, but it's unlikely the fledgling force will be able to take over frontline responsibilities by next spring.

Brig.-Gen. Tim Grant's comments come one week after Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor said he expects Canadian troops to begin shifting to a training role by next spring as the Afghans take on more combat duties.

Grant told CTV's Canada AM the Afghan army is improving dramatically, but he offered a cautious response to O'Connor's prediction.

"They're doing well. Will they be able to carry the entire burden by the end of this upcoming (rotation)? Probably not, but we're hopeful," Grant said.

"They're keen to make a success and we're doing everything we can to make sure they're as successful as they can be."

O'Connor had pointed to the Canadians' successful mentoring of one Afghan battalion that is now out in the field conducting operations on its own, and said that was to be a model used to train other Afghan battalions, eventually taking weight off the Canadians.

But Gen. Rick Hillier also downplayed his political boss's comments, saying that handing over front-line duties to the Afghan army wouldn't be easy.

"We'd like to see that it was in that position to be able to do so by next February, but that would be certainly a significant challenge for them," Hillier said Sunday on CTV's Question Period in the wake of O'Connor's comments.

Grant, who had a narrow brush with death recently when a suicide bomber attacked the convoy he was travelling in, said the situation on the ground is definitely improving, and there is reason to hope.

"We've seen tremendous improvement in the one (Afghan) infantry battalion ... we have on the ground right now," said Grant, who is coming to the end of his nine-month rotation in Afghanistan.

"We've got two more we will start to mentor, and we hope to see the improvement of them as they move forward and as they become more capable they will take on a bigger leadership role and a bigger weight of the fight against the Taliban."

However, he said Canadians must remain committed to training and mentoring their Afghan counterparts, even if they don't meet Canadian timelines, to ensure they can take over security duties after the Canadians and other NATO troops eventually leave.

"If they're not ready we keep at it," Grant said.

"Truly, we need to continue that at every level, through the infantry on the ground to their brigade and corps headquarters, that they are capable and professional enough to carry on this fight when we leave."

Grant pointed to other ongoing successes in Afghanistan, noting that Canada's security efforts have made it possible for development and reconstruction to take place, health care has improved and the childhood mortality rate has fallen dramatically.

"Forty thousand additional kids are alive today in Afghanistan because of things Canadians and others have done," Grant said.
Sorry to drag this off page 2 but here we have both the Contingent Commander and the CDS saying that a hand over to the Afghans will likely be impossible in the time frame the Defence Minister has detailed. This isn't the first time that the Minister has shot his mouth off only to get smacked down by the CDS later, in fact he's got quite the track record of it. One might say that he's quite the tool. I know I don't think much of him, retired General or not. And the fact that he's a former defense lobbyist is just icing on the cake.
User avatar
Dartzap
Keeper of the Beer
Posts: 859
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:22 am
19
Location: on that small pile of rocks called the UK
Contact:

#5

Post by Dartzap »

UK Generals are currently planning for a Long Game over there. They are planning for Operation Banner lengths.

38 years? Not again :sad: Why is it Britain always gets involved in Long Games?! It's nigh on a National Defence Hobby!
Last edited by Dartzap on Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Why hello! Could I intrest you in some giant bonsai trees?"

Image
User avatar
Cpl Kendall
Disciple
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm
19
Location: Ontario, Canada

#6

Post by Cpl Kendall »

Well in reality nothing is going to happen but in the long term. But the question is will the governments and the people involved give it enough time to work? Long term planning is not the West's best strength.
User avatar
frigidmagi
Dragon Death-Marine General
Posts: 14757
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
19
Location: Alone and unafraid

#7

Post by frigidmagi »

This isn't the first time that the Minister has shot his mouth off only to get smacked down by the CDS later, in fact he's got quite the track record of it. One might say that he's quite the tool.
Have you checked to ensure he's not some sort of Rummy clone?
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
User avatar
Cpl Kendall
Disciple
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm
19
Location: Ontario, Canada

#8

Post by Cpl Kendall »

frigidmagi wrote:
Have you checked to ensure he's not some sort of Rummy clone?
This guys not smart enough to be a Rummy clone.
Post Reply