Stadium crowd pushes for Islamist dream

[frigidmagi]

BBC

The BBC's Lucy Williamson reports from Indonesia, where tens of thousands of Islamists have gathered to push for the creation of a single state across the Muslim world.

Supporters attending the Hizb ut-Tahrir event, Jakarta
Hizb ut-Tahrir managed to fill the Gelora Bung Karno stadium
The dull roars of a football match, the twanging music of a youth group concert - from a distance it is not always easy to tell an Islamic conference from a holiday crowd.

Inside Jakarta's Gelora Bung Karno stadium the clues get easier. There are about 100,000 people inside, and everyone is in Islamic dress.

The women's section - by far the largest - is a pitter-patter of ice-cream colours. On their parasols, one word is printed over and over again: Khilafah, caliphate.

This is the reason why people have come here. To show their support for a single, unified, Islamic state.


Maybe I chose Hizb ut-Tahrir because it unites the masses better than other Islamic organisation
Yani, Hizb ut-Tahrir member

Q&A: Hizb ut-Tahrir
They have been invited by the international Islamist group, Hizb ut-Tahrir. Not everyone believed they would fill the stadium, but Hizb ut-Tahrir is good at bringing in supporters - and keeping them.

Milling around outside the stadium we found 24-year-old Akbar.

He was not a member of Hizb ut-Tahrir, but he said: "This conference is not just for one group. In my opinion, if you support there being sharia law in Indonesia, you've got to be here."

Yani, a student from Bogor, said she had come to show there was support for Islam, and support for a Caliphate too.

Supporters attending the Hizb ut-Tahrir event, Jakarta
It can take several years to gain membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir
Next to her, Wisnu told us she was there to increase ties with other Muslims.

"Maybe I chose Hizb ut-Tahrir because it unites the masses better than other Islamic organisations," she said.

But if the audience turnout was impressive, not so the speakers lined up to address the crowd.

One by one, over the past few days, seven of the delegates invited to speak have dropped out.

'Uncommon democracy'

One of those who did turn up to speak was Din Syamsuddin - an establishment figure rather than a firebrand, and leader of Indonesia's second largest Muslim organisation, Muhammadiyah.

Supporters attending the Hizb ut-Tahrir event, Jakarta
Many Hizb ut-Tahrir member are from Indonesia's middle class
But this was a conference that would like to overturn Indonesia's democratically elected government and install an Islamic state - so where does he stand on that?

"I think democracy is OK," he said. "But it's not enough. I think democracy in Indonesia should be supported by religious, ethical and moral values."

"Because this is a country where the majority of its citizens are religious people. So maybe not liberal democracy, but uncommon democracy; based on religious values - I say religious values, not necessarily Islamic values."

There was a lot of speculation before this conference began about what kinds of messages would be reflected here.

Hizb ut-Tahrir says it is not an extremist organisation: it does not have a paramilitary wing, and has never been charged with violence.

But its hardline agenda and rhetoric, and its secretive recruitment process, have won it many opponents.

Educated classes

Kholid has been a member of Hizb ut-Tahrir in Indonesia for six years. He joined at college and says the teachings of the party have changed the way he views the West.

"It comes as a matter of course," he told me. "I've come to believe that Muslims have the right to defend themselves when attacked, but we're not allowed to be aggressive against Westerners if they're not attacking us.

"The method used in Hizb ut-Tahrir is a change in thought patterns. We call it 'thought revolution'. When someone is given Islamic teaching - given the brilliant thinking of Islam - then they'll naturally undergo a thought revolution, and will see what is good and what is bad."

Hizb ut-Tahrir will not say how many members it has. But those close to the group say membership is extremely difficult to win - often taking several years.

Unlike many other Islamist movements here, Hizb ut-Tahrir seems less interested in a broad mass following than a smaller more committed core of members, many of them drawn from Indonesia's educated middle classes.

The organisation has only been operating openly in Indonesia for seven years. The conference is one sign that it is doing well.

A single muslim state ruled on Sharia law... Frankly it speaks of a disaster in terms of human rights to me and I wouldn't want to be a non-muslim in those areas.

[SirNitram]

Am I the only one concerned about what would be the prerequisite for this Caliphate, and not the actual attempt at formulating the state?

[Cpl Kendall]

I doubt you could get the various sects of Islam to agree long enough to form a Caliphate, let alone a state. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

[frigidmagi]

Forget the different sects, try getting the Arabs and the nonarabs to agree on who should be in charge.

[Cpl Kendall]

Forget the different sects, try getting the Arabs and the nonarabs to agree on who should be in charge.

Hmm, look at it this way. If Jebus willing and the river doesn't rise and this comes to pass and then falls apart, maybe they'll be to busy killing each other to bother us.

[SirNitram]

I doubt you could get the various sects of Islam to agree long enough to form a Caliphate, let alone a state. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

That's what I mean. The various sects all have non-agreeing versions of the Caliphate. Oh, and I believe one explicitly calls for the annihilation of opposing sects before it comes.

So far more scary than a Caliphate which would snap under it's own weight is the genocidal war that would preceed it.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

The BBC's Lucy Williamson reports from Indonesia, where tens of thousands of Islamists have gathered to push for the creation of a single state across the Muslim world.

Supporters attending the Hizb ut-Tahrir event, Jakarta
Hizb ut-Tahrir managed to fill the Gelora Bung Karno stadium

Yawn. Gelora Bung Karno is near the area where I lived, and I hardly noticed whatever the hell was happening. I'm not the only one, by the way. In fact, most of my neighbors actually discovered it from the next morning newspaper. Meh.

Generally, most of the muslims here don't give too much shit about whatever the fundies are saying, but of course, it's always the fundies that get the most highlights.

[frigidmagi]

I think if you filled a stadium calling for the creation of a superstate you would get noticed to.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

I think if you filled a stadium calling for the creation of a superstate you would get noticed to.

Oh, it was on the media for sure, since the extremists are always the one with political lobby and media connection and such. However, ordinary muslims in this country --or any Indonesians for that matter-- would actually pay much more attention if you filled the stadium with a soccer game instead of fundie convention.

I don't know how far Islamic extremism has gone in Saudi Arabia where Wahhabism was originated, or in Pakistan where the legacy of Zia Ul-Haq's religious facism seems always to be strong, but in this country, I always get the impression that extremism is more like Amway --you don't give them much shit unless you're already a member.



EDIT: It is quite interesting to note that Din Syamsuddin, the leader of Muhammadiyah, gave a political blowjob (okay, political lip service) to the extremists. Why? Because historically, Muhammadiyah has always been the one promoting modernization instead of going back to the Stone Age like what the Talibans are enforcing. That could mean two things: a) Muhammadiyah starts to be infected by fundies. b) It's just another case of Indonesian politician giving a blowjob, which is quite common.