Transformers: Steel Reign

[Dark Silver]

Alright, honestly, shut up about the fucking battles. I'm tiring of hearing it over and over and over again. It IS beating a dead horse, and if the roles were reversed Cat, you wouldn't have put up with this shit half as long as I have.

I don't mind you coming in and offering suggestions on things, or making comments, but if I don't want to hear one more god damn thing about your complaints concerning deathstrike not killing anyone. If it isn't halfway fucking obvious, I'm changing shit to make it easier for everyone when it comes down to damage - so that way no one feels cheated.

Frigid
That's the basic idea, if a charecter isn't in a role which would normally concern those skills, or they just so happen to be better at it than even the other 'Mechs with their job, then they can take merits for it. If they just happen to be WORSE at those jobs thanthey should be, they can get merits (Ineptitude for the Flaw, Bloody Brillant for the Merit, unless someone has a better idea for those two)

[rhoenix]

Skills is something I was raking my brain over when I was tinkering with the stats system to begin with. Though I considered it an overly simplistic solution, the Skill stat as a rating of overall competence does work.

The other solution, as frigid suggested, is to delineate skills specifically - though to avoid abuse of points, they would have to be bought by a separate point pool from the attribute stats. This makes it much more complex, and therefore less attractive for forum-based play, where the goal is conciseness - not necessarily simplicity, mind you, but conciseness. Being able to pack as much useful information about one's character as efficiently as possible while still making sense.

I'll just copy some solutions I've been tinkering with before I came to DS about this - and who knows? Perhaps this will inspire another multi-hour conversation between he and I about it, but I'd rather all of you be in on it as well, and I'm sure he would too. Mind you, these are from my own notes, and all of you may have better ideas than the ones below - or perhaps seeing them will inspire you (the reader) to a better solution. Either way, I'd personally like to see any ideas you might have.

Solution #1: Skill specialties.
Each character selects an arbitrary number (such as 5) of skill specialties (such as Flying, Stunt Driving, Stealth, Marksbotship, and so on). These skill specialties would be denoted by the pre-existing Skill stat.

Solution #2: Separate Skill Section.
This one I like less, because it would make the character more complicated, and therefore more work for forum-based play, which would in turn make it less attractive to players. Give each character a separate Skill point pool to buy skill points with. Doing so would make the Skill attribute obsolete, dropping it from a character's attributes altogether.

Solution #3: Hybrid of 1 & 2.
This is more complicated than I'd like, but would still keep the Skill attribute relevant, to a degree. Each character would again have a separate Skill point pool from their attribute points. Each player would then choose an arbitrary number of "in-function" skills (such as 5) that would be treated as specialty skills, to be given a competence bonus by the Skill stat.

[Cynical Cat]

Alright, honestly, shut up about the fucking battles. I'm tiring of hearing it over and over and over again. It IS beating a dead horse, and if the roles were reversed Cat, you wouldn't have put up with this shit half as long as I have.

You are free to presume about what I would do in your place and your are just as free to be horribly wrong with your presumptions.

[frigidmagi]

Alright that will do.

[Dark Silver]

rhoenix
That's the idea frigid was pretty much suggesting in AIM to me.

The skills is basically general competence, and I expected Function to cover what the role of the bot was - but then coming to think about it, even under the functions, there's a entire gob of knowledges they could have.

Take Warrior, for instance. Warrior is basically soldier - we have Gunners, Demolitions, long range support, sniping, etc etc. Just a gob of stuff that they could do, and they couldn't do all those jobs with the same amount of skill.



Frigid has suggested a "Field", (it could possibly be a subsection of function), to describe the Mech's particular skillset, and what their best at.

Another idea is with their Skill ranking, they could specify their particular field of speciality (Ex: Skill 7 - Field Repairs (Mech) ) .

any other suggestions? or ways to keep it relatively simple, but not abusably/uselessly so?

[Cynical Cat]

We're talking about machine intelligences, some of them millions of years old. Their skill set will be considerable. Only extraordinary levels of competency in areas away from their area of expertise should require additional points.

[rhoenix]

rhoenix
That's the idea frigid was pretty much suggesting in AIM to me.

The skills is basically general competence, and I expected Function to cover what the role of the bot was - but then coming to think about it, even under the functions, there's a entire gob of knowledges they could have.

Take Warrior, for instance. Warrior is basically soldier - we have Gunners, Demolitions, long range support, sniping, etc etc. Just a gob of stuff that they could do, and they couldn't do all those jobs with the same amount of skill.



Frigid has suggested a "Field", (it could possibly be a subsection of function), to describe the Mech's particular skillset, and what their best at.

Another idea is with their Skill ranking, they could specify their particular field of speciality (Ex: Skill 7 - Field Repairs (Mech) ) .

any other suggestions? or ways to keep it relatively simple, but not abusably/uselessly so?

This I like. I like very much.

However, this quickly gets into Function skills and Other skills - in other words, skills inherent to one's function, and other skills the bot has picked up on their own.

This would require creating a list of functions and skills bound to them, as well as a total list of skills, but that wouldn't be too difficult. Newer skills could be added to the Other Skills section with experience points, for instance.

[Dark Silver]

Cynical Cat - That's why, at first, I didn't think there was a need to really go beyond "Function" as describing their skill set, along with the points in Skill being their level of general competency.

I figured if they wanted knowledge in other things (like those choosing one of the Cybertronian Martial Arts) they could pay out of their point pool for those skills.


Still, having them declare a specific area of expertise in the general subset of their function, may help clarify the character's role a bit more. If they choose skills outside of the skill set designated by function, at higher than "common" level of knowledge, they'd have to pay for it via merits.

thoughts?

[rhoenix]

We're talking about machine intelligences, some of them millions of years old. Their skill set will be considerable. Only extraordinary levels of competency in areas away from their area of expertise should require additional points.

While this is true, this could easily be explained per character with a higher rating in their Skill attribute to reflect age and experience with the skills they have.

Having one list of skills firmly dictated by a bot's function, and another list of Other skills the bot has picked up would be a good baseline, and more skills could be added to the Other skills list with experience.

Cynical Cat - That's why, at first, I didn't think there was a need to really go beyond "Function" as describing their skill set, along with the points in Skill being their level of general competency.

I figured if they wanted knowledge in other things (like those choosing one of the Cybertronian Martial Arts) they could pay out of their point pool for those skills.

Still, having them declare a specific area of expertise in the general subset of their function, may help clarify the character's role a bit more. If they choose skills outside of the skill set designated by function, at higher than "common" level of knowledge, they'd have to pay for it via merits.

thoughts?

Well, say for instance each Specialty has a firm grouping of five skills. Given my idea above, each bot would also have five slots for skills of their choosing, and all ten skills (Function skills and Other skills) would be dictated in competence by the bot's Skill attribute. If a player wished to add more skills to their Other skills list, it might be purchased on a one-for-one basis with experience, or a one-for-two basis with beginning points.

The above is simply an example of what I mean, but I think it serves to illustrate my point.

[General Havoc]

All of this I fervently believe will be more trouble than it is ultimately worth. Skills and the like are best elucidated through the character sheet itself, rather than through points. This is not a paper and pen RPG, and the more stats you introduce, the worse off things get in terms of slowing the game down, not to mention the inevitable arguments that arise around. "I shot at you with my skill of 7 and you dodged with your agility of 6! WTF! CHEATING!"

If you mandate that people select the skills they are skilled in, with relative values thereof, then you'd need a comprehensive list of skills from which to choose. You'll probably wind up needing an extra system to track skill levels in these various skills. Just because Hornet and Jetfire can both fly, does not mean they both fly with equal levels of skill.

Honestly, I think the "skill" stat works fine assuming you apply it towards them as a general rule. It means that the Transformer is X coordinated, X well-versed in their role, etc... Excess skills really ought to be a matter of just listing what else your character is good at. At least that's my view on the matter.

[rhoenix]

All of this I fervently believe will be more trouble than it is ultimately worth. Skills and the like are best elucidated through the character sheet itself, rather than through points. This is not a paper and pen RPG, and the more stats you introduce, the worse off things get in terms of slowing the game down, not to mention the inevitable arguments that arise around. "I shot at you with my skill of 7 and you dodged with your agility of 6! WTF! CHEATING!"

If you mandate that people select the skills they are skilled in, with relative values thereof, then you'd need a comprehensive list of skills from which to choose. You'll probably wind up needing an extra system to track skill levels in these various skills. Just because Hornet and Jetfire can both fly, does not mean they both fly with equal levels of skill.

Honestly, I think the "skill" stat works fine assuming you apply it towards them as a general rule. It means that the Transformer is X coordinated, X well-versed in their role, etc... Excess skills really ought to be a matter of just listing what else your character is good at. At least that's my view on the matter.

I see your point, and upon reading it, agree with you - it would end up being more trouble than its worth.

But would you mind elaborating on "listing what the character is good at" without points being involved?

[General Havoc]

I see your point, and upon reading it, agree with you - it would end up being more trouble than its worth.

But would you mind elaborating on "listing what the character is good at" without points being involved?

Let us assume for a moment that Hornet is an accomplished accordion player. It should simply be enough to say, in the character sheet, that "Hornet is an accomplished accordion player", and leave it at that. It should be obvious when someone is being absurd about it, because they will have nineteen skills listed and everyone else will have four

[rhoenix]

Let us assume for a moment that Hornet is an accomplished accordion player. It should simply be enough to say, in the character sheet, that "Hornet is an accomplished accordion player", and leave it at that. It should be obvious when someone is being absurd about it, because they will have nineteen skills listed and everyone else will have four.

Indeed - sometimes the simplest approach is indeed the most concise. I did go a bit overboard with the skills thing, especially considering that this is a forum-based game.

Back on topic of gameplay though, Agent Fisher, I'll wait for you to write Stryke waking up and moving around before I have Blindside/Firetrack wake up and give his entrance.

[LadyTevar]

TeamhairTahal: You know, I should have made that bet for 1 breem
TeamhairTahal: 5 Terran minutes are up. You're doing better than I thought
TeamhairTahal: You're not back in the CR chamber yet
steeleffigy: no, but when he walks back in, he'll be dusty, rock-pitted, pine-stained, and probably have branches sticking out of his servos
steeleffigy: he's going to be out there for hours
TeamhairTahal: Oh... He'll look like Hornet after an hour's flight
steeleffigy: right!

[rhoenix]

Minor note - I obtained B4's permission to move Slipstream to the Ark Bar.

[Dark Silver]

Ok, after long, careful thought, I've decided.

Function will still be able to fill it's role, without the need of a subsection, or additional points or complicating the creation process. It will just become more of a indication of where your character's primary skill talents lie. If you declare a general type of function say, "Warrior" your skillset would be specialized towards the skills a soldier would have, but you'll be a 'jack of all trades, master of none' role.

For instance, Proton's function is Warrior, while Bomb Blast's function is Demolitions. While Proton may have some knowledge of how to set a bomb, and arm it, skills will also reflect he isn't a specialist in that field. No matter how high his skill score, he will master no particular skill, but may become a exceptional overall warrior-mech. Meanwhile, Bomb Burst's function being specifically Demolition, his knowledge is more specialized, and with higher skill rankings, he will be a master demolitionist - knowing all the various kinds of explosives, how to arm and disarm bombs, and generally "blow shit up".

This way, we keep the sheets still simple, but we know whose a expert at what.

[rhoenix]

Alright, sounds good - are functions going to be standardized, or left between player and GM to work out example skills for?

[Dark Silver]

left between player and GM

there's no need for standardization - there's a massive amount of roles out there, to many to make even list that won't overcomplicate things for the players.

[rhoenix]

Right, about timing and such:

So roughly about now Firetrack and a stumbling Slipstream would be moving past those assembled near the medbay. Shortly after that, Firetrack would non-chalantly walk past everyone again into the training room, not to be seen again for a few hours. Meanwhile, Slipstream would be waking up.

In other words, we're receiving Slipstream's "waking up with a hangover" information from the future. Since we Autobots are getting information from the future, I think we should explore this phenomenon more closely to see if we can turn this to our advantage.

[B4UTRUST]

I did that so I had something on record for the next day or two to have slipstream doing something. This is because it's doubtful I'll be online much the next few days. Therefore nobody is waiting for me(not that they ever do). So feel free to bite my shiny metal ass.

[rhoenix]

I did that so I had something on record for the next day or two to have slipstream doing something. This is because it's doubtful I'll be online much the next few days.

Ah, makes sense.

Therefore nobody is waiting for me(not that they ever do).

Well, we should, for game/story continuity at the very least.

So feel free to bite my shiny metal ass.

If its shiny, you probably want to get it painted.

[rhoenix]

Firetrack and Hornet for air-cover...Somehow, it didn't seem enough for what Prime was talking.

Bloody hell, I'm surprised more people aren't just falling down crying at that prospect.

[LadyTevar]

It makes sense for Overload -not- to be XO. After all, what if they're combined and go down (again)?

But rheonix pointed out something:

steeleffigy: thought at least now we won't have to see firetrack making accidental sweet love to any more trees
steeleffigy: ...we hope
TeamhairTahal: Someone who flies worse than Hornet. Primus help us
steeleffigy: that's the worst part - hornet flies just fine. he just lets his attention wanders
steeleffigy: firetrack concentrates on it, and still flies into things
TeamhairTahal: *whimper*
We're so doomed.
steeleffigy: see? see?!
steeleffigy: this is why i as a player laugh, but why every other character on squad ico should be crying

[General Havoc]

Hey, Hornet's thrilled to be considered "air cover". He can't figure out why so many people are appalled by that concept.

[frigidmagi]

Well there was the little episode of your bombing run during the 1st battle of Fort Maximal. You know the one where you dropped a bomb on Blitzwing... While he was in hand to hand with Breakout.