Protests cut short Olympic relay

[frigidmagi]

BBC

The Paris leg of the Olympic torch relay has been cut short following anti-Chinese protests along the route.

Security officials extinguished the torch at least three times due to the protests before it was carried on a bus to the relay's end point.

It comes after 37 people were arrested in London as protesters disrupted the torch relay there on Sunday.

The Olympic flame is being carried through 20 countries before arriving for the Beijing Games in August.

Flame protected

The Paris relay started to go wrong almost from the start, despite the presence of 3,000 police along the route, riding motorcycles, jogging or on skates.

A member of the French Green party was restrained by police after attempting to grab the torch from the first of Paris's 80 torch bearers, former world 400 metres hurdles champion Stephane Diagana, Reuters news agency said.

"Nothing's happening as it was meant to," Mr Diagana told French TV.

"It's a shame. It's sad because of what this symbol represents but it can be explained by the context we're aware of."

See the Paris route

Police were forced at least three times to put out the torch and carried it onto a bus, as police cleared protesters from the route.

On the second occasion, the flame was being relayed out of a Paris traffic tunnel by an athlete in a wheelchair when it was taken onto a bus because protesters booed and began chanting "Tibet", the Associated Press news agency reported.

The flame itself has been kept alight the whole time in a safety lantern.

The International Olympic Committee has expressed its serious concern and calls for a rapid peaceful resolution in Tibet
Jacques Rogge, IOC President

Later, Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe cancelled a ceremony to welcome the torch relay after Green party activists hung a Tibetan flag and a black banner depicting the Olympic rings as handcuffs from the Hotel de Ville (city hall).

Activists have hung Tibetan flags or the black banners from several other Paris landmarks including the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame cathedral.

Several hundred protesters have been involved in the demonstrations, near the Eiffel Tower and along the torch's zig-zag route through Paris to a stadium in the south of the city.

Finally, after several delays, security officials decided to put the torch on a bus to take it to Stade Charlety, where it arrived 30 minutes late at 1530 GMT).

Pro-Tibet activists and Chinese supporters scuffled outside the stadium before police intervened.

Olympic appeal

China condemned what it called an "attempt to sabotage and destroy" the torch relay.

"The Olympic flame belongs to the people around the world," said Wang Hui, a spokesman for the Beijing Olympic organising committee.

"So the behaviour of a few separatists would not gain sympathy from people and will cause strong criticism and is doomed to fail."


A Tibet protester tries to block the Olympic torch relay in London 6/4/08
China has expressed disgust at the torch protests in London

In pictures: Paris protests

The Paris relay was meant to be a colourful advertisement for the Beijing Games, instead it has turned into a grotesque embarrassment, says the BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris.

US Democratic Party presidential candidate Hillary Clinton called on President George W Bush to boycott the opening ceremony of the Olympics unless China improved its human rights record.

Speaking in Beijing earlier on Monday, IOC President Jacques Rogge said he was concerned over both the recent unrest in Tibet and the torch protests.

"The International Olympic Committee has expressed its serious concern and calls for a rapid peaceful resolution in Tibet," Mr Rogge said.

He criticised the attempts to disrupt the torch relay, saying violent protests, "for whatever reason," are "not compatible with the values of the torch relay or the Olympic Games".

London's relay saw protesters trying to douse and even snatch the Olympic flame as athletes and celebrities carried it through the city.

The demonstrations have been sparked by China's security crackdown in Tibet following a series of protests against Chinese rule which swept the region last month.

Tibetan exile groups say Chinese security forces killed dozens of protesters. Beijing says about 19 people were killed in rioting.

The torch was lit in Olympia, Greece, on 24 March and is being relayed through 20 countries before being carried into the opening ceremony at the Beijing Games on 8 August.

I just love the self delusion and unintentional irony from the Chinese.

[Cynical Cat]

The Chinese just want us to continue propping up their economy. As long as we keep buying and selling, its all good to them. As long as the West continues to buy at Walmart, they'll wave it off. If it starts to grow and they become a pariah nation like South Africa in the 80s, they're fucked.

[frigidmagi]

Yeah but let's be blunt here, we're not exactly free of dependence on China for our own economic well being now are we?

[Cynical Cat]

Its far more the other way around, but yes it won't be painless.

[frigidmagi]

Outline that if you would. The whole they need us more then we need them bit.

[LadyTevar]

Since China owns the majority of the USA's debt? Yeah... it'll suck.

[Cynical Cat]

Outline that if you would. The whole they need us more then we need them bit.

They're whole modernization is built on selling cheap goods to the West and buying up raw materials to fuel their growth. Canada has other markets for its raw materials and the US has other markets for its goods and both countries would benefit from restarting some fucking industry in their countries. China can't really close its markets. Its the mostly new prosperous classes that are doing the buying and they won't do without. Even with a total boycott of US goods, the US trades with the rest of the world. It'll hurt, but the world is larger than China.

Will the US get hurt worse than say Canada? Yes. China can't do anything nasty with those dollars, because they are China's capital. They could dump them cheap and hurt the US, but they would be utterly fucked by doing that. It would be the economic equivalent of getting into a nuclear war with the US. Far worse for China. They're probably wishing they had bought Euros now, the way the dollar is performing.

[frigidmagi]

the way the dollar is performing.

*mutters curses*

Worse part is I can't blame Jr for this, not completely.

[Cynical Cat]

the way the dollar is performing.

*mutters curses*

Worse part is I can't blame Jr for this, not completely.

He had lots of help. Reagan and deregulation worship, a Republican Congress, outsourcing, and a government massively in the red for years. Wrecking the dollar of a country as powerful and as rich as the US takes a lot of work and and a lot of people and we all know Dubya is a slacker.

[Hadrianvs]

Wait until the torch passes by San Francisco. I'm going to have to find out when it happens so I know to watch the news and have some popcorn ready. Though quite frankly, of all the things people could be complaining about in regard to China, Tibet is toward the bottom of the list. Beijing might be an oppressive asshole of an overlord, but at least the Tibetan farmers are now getting paid for their work. That was not the case under the region's previous oppressive asshole overlords.

[frigidmagi]

Very true on the other hand, at least back then Tibetian farmers weren't being evicted from their land and seeing it handed over to Han Chinese newcomers in a government scheme to make Tibetians a minority in their own country.

Speaking from a Native American point of view... Yeah you Tibetian guys want to put the kibosh on that right quick. Once those bastards move in they'll never leave... And don't take any gifts of free booze, that's a trap!

[Hadrianvs]

Well sure, the Chinese are trying to assimilate the Tibetans, same as they have every other group they've conquered in the past two millennia. They're not being nice about it, or ethical/moral for that matter, but the Chinese have never been known for their gentle and understanding ways. The point is that, unlike some other shit China has pulled, at least there is some tangible good coming from their seizure of the region. Beijing does, after all, throw $2.5 billion at Tibet a year and in turn collects virtually no taxes. That is, of course, balanced with the systematic and deliberate diminishing of Tibetan cultural heritage, but standards of living are going up.

[frigidmagi]

The vast, vast majority of that 2.5 billion is spent on Han Chinese. The average Tibetan doesn't get shit. To put it bluntly that 2.5 billion is mostly spent on making sure the Tibetians are never in a position to get their own country back. So nuts to that.

Yeah I don't like the Theocracy idea either, but it's not a either or choice.

[Cynical Cat]

The Chinese have invested a fair amount of resources in improving life for the average Tibetan. There's been massive improvements in things like health care and education. The Chinese are sucking out more than they are putting in, but they are putting in. As autocratic overlords go they are far better than the theocracy that kept most of the country in medieval conditions.

Of course, saying someone is better than the Tibetan theocracy is damning them with faint praise.

[LadyTevar]

Clinton's calling for Bush to not attend the opening ceremony.

I've mixed feelings on that. We do have athletes going, whether we like it or not, so boycotting the opening is rather a mixed message isn't it? Plus, it seems somewhat disrespectful of our own athletes.

[Hadrianvs]

The vast, vast majority of that 2.5 billion is spent on Han Chinese. The average Tibetan doesn't get shit. To put it bluntly that 2.5 billion is mostly spent on making sure the Tibetians are never in a position to get their own country back. So nuts to that.

They are never going to get it back unless China collapses in a spectacular manner, and quite frankly I don't think they should want their country back anyway. I do not think the place can make any progress except as part of a greater whole. In any case, the whole thing will become moot in a few generations. The Han are a bit like slow acting Borg, so in time there won't be any Tibetans to want anything back.

Yeah I don't like the Theocracy idea either, but it's not a either or choice.

You're right, the Chinese could be a lot nicer in the handling of the situation.

[frigidmagi]

They are never going to get it back unless China collapses in a spectacular manner, and quite frankly I don't think they should want their country back anyway. I do not think the place can make any progress except as part of a greater whole.

To be blunt, the Tibetians opinion about what they want for their own country means more to me then your opinion of what you think they should want. Hell plenty of costly mistakes have been made very recently trying to shove what we think they should want down the throats of people who disagreed.

You're right, the Chinese could be a lot nicer in the handling of the situation.

In the interests of fairness they are being a hell of alot nicer then the US 9th calvary was.

[Hadrianvs]

To be blunt, the Tibetians opinion about what they want for their own country means more to me then your opinion of what you think they should want. Hell plenty of costly mistakes have been made very recently trying to shove what we think they should want down the throats of people who disagreed.

There is a difference between shoving one's beliefs about another's best interests down their throat and trying to start a dialogue on the subject. I believe that being part of China is in Tibet's best interests, I also acknowledge that some Tibetans believe the opposite. I am not convinced they are right, but neither do I dismiss their opinions out of hand. It is entirely possible that I am wrong, or that they are wrong, or even both.

In the interests of fairness they are being a hell of alot nicer then the US 9th Calvary was.

It helps a lot that the Chinese do not see the Tibetans as sub-humans to be rounded-up and corralled like animals, and are not hung-up over stupid ideas of racial purity.